The Devils are exciting

[Devils090]

Lou gets a lot of heat because he left the Devils an absolute mess when he left. I'll never hate him because he's the main reason we're still playing hockey in NJ but his moves/drafting took the Devils into the basement.

After drafting Zajac in 04 his first round picks are as followed

05-Bergfors-was a promising rookie, part of the Kovy trade, never amounted to anything

06-Corrente-played 34 NHL games

07-traded

08-Tedenby-washed out back to Sweden after 120 games and 30 points

09-Josefson-4th liner who can't ever score

10-traded

11-won the lottery and got Larsson

12-Matteau-AHL player at best

13-traded for Schneider

14-Quenneville-still hasn't made the jump

15-Zacha

Not to mention continually brining in over the hill vets and flat out bad players like Ryder, Ruutu, Clowe, Tootoo, Brunner, Havlat. Lou set this team back years because he was too stubborn to commit to a rebuild. The man is a legend but the mess the Devils are getting out of is entirely his doing.

 

[EliasFTW]

You're my boy Lou

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Leaf fans don't get it. Lou has little to do with the Leafs' turnaround. He is nothing more than an advisor or figurehead; Shanny runs that organization. Lou just hopped over to it at the right time coinciding with some strong draft classes.

Lou was a top 3 GM in hockey for the better part of two decades. For that, Devils fans will always love him. However, he refused to adapt as the NHL changed mid-2000s onward. Mismanaged assets. Poor drafting. Horrendous signing after horrendous signing. Stubborn, old school negotiating tactics. Archaic player conduct rules/expectations, etc.

Plus, I still believe he knew Kovalchuk was probably gonna leave when he traded for Schneider. That trade alone pushed the rebuild back 5+ years. Anyone with eyes could see that roster was beyond trash without Kovy (having previously lost Parise). That trade made no sense if he knew Kovy was heading out a week later. And he was too stubborn to forfeit the damn Matteau pick after the Cup run with a team on the downswing

I don't exactly disagree with you about Shanny being the real person behind the turnaround but I also think you are really under stating what Lou has brought to the table for the Leafs in getting this done. Part of the genius in what Shanny did is get such a large group of very different people with very different strengths to buy into one single idea and goal and getting Lou was a big part in that. Now he undoubtedly plays a smaller role with the Leafs then he did for years with the Devils...but that is probably a good thing at this point and he is just used for his strengths and the other parts get delegated.

 

[Edmonton East]

I may not get it, as I am not a Maple Leafs fan in the conventional sense (I like the Maple Leafs as I do many teams, including New Jersey), but I would attribute a good portion of Toronto's turnaround to Lamoriello.

But back to New Jersey, I would disagree with your assessment of Lamoriello. He kept the Devils in contention from the 1990's all the way through to 2012, more or less. Devils fans may have become spoiled by Lamoriello's long track record of success, which simply speaks for itself. However, rest assured it is the norm among the rest of GMs NOT to have that type of long standing success with one organization.

It's a general statement. I see a lot of Leaf fans praising LL around here all the time when it is unlikely he has had much to do with the turnaround. The framework was put down well before he got there by Shanny.

You're acting like Devils fans hate him or think he was a bad GM for NJ. No logical person would say that. As I said before, he was a clear top 3 GM for the better part of 2 decades. Every Devils fan would agree with that statement, as would most other hockey fans. But facts are facts. He was terrible in his latter years and made insane, unjustifiable decisions in his last few years that set the franchise back 5+ years. I'd argue a decade.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Leaf fans don't get it. Lou has little to do with the Leafs' turnaround. He is nothing more than an advisor or figurehead; Shanny runs that organization. Lou just hopped over to it at the right time coinciding with some strong draft classes.

A little yes a little no.
I will grant you, that the prior hires of Dubas and Hunter, really spurred the team on in terms of personnel.
What Lou did bring, is his iron fist of rules and far more important, the cone of slience. In the latter aspect, no team in the league needed that, more than the Leafs. The iron fist came with dispatching players, who treated Horachek as a supply teacher, and the leaders of salutegate. Lou wasn't so much personnel, as structure, to Shanny's vision.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Lou gets a lot of heat because he left the Devils an absolute mess when he left. I'll never hate him because he's the main reason we're still playing hockey in NJ but his moves/drafting took the Devils into the basement.

After drafting Zajac in 04 his first round picks are as followed

05-Bergfors-was a promising rookie, part of the Kovy trade, never amounted to anything

06-Corrente-played 34 NHL games

07-traded

08-Tedenby-washed out back to Sweden after 120 games and 30 points

09-Josefson-4th liner who can't ever score

10-traded

11-won the lottery and got Larsson

12-Matteau-AHL player at best

13-traded for Schneider

14-Quenneville-still hasn't made the jump

15-Zacha

Not to mention continually brining in over the hill vets and flat out bad players like Ryder, Ruutu, Clowe, Tootoo, Brunner, Havlat. Lou set this team back years because he was too stubborn to commit to a rebuild. The man is a legend but the mess the Devils are getting out of is entirely his doing.

It's funny because I remember a time when the Devils were considered the gold standard of drafting, due to David Conte, and also the gold standard of trades, signing UFAs, and having an internal salary cap when none was required.

The drafting of Petr Sykora, Patrik Elias, Scott Gomez, the signing of John Madden and Brian Rafalski, the contracts of Scott Stevens, Scott Niedermayer, Martin Brodeur, not being afraid to let go Bobby Holik and Alex Mogilny and winning yet another Stanley cup.

What you are asking for is perfection. No GM bats 1.000. But Lamoriello batted higher than any other GM in modern history. That is an indication you should look for blame elsewhere.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Lou gets a lot of heat because he left the Devils an absolute mess when he left. I'll never hate him because he's the main reason we're still playing hockey in NJ but his moves/drafting took the Devils into the basement.

After drafting Zajac in 04 his first round picks are as followed

05-Bergfors-was a promising rookie, part of the Kovy trade, never amounted to anything

06-Corrente-played 34 NHL games

07-traded

08-Tedenby-washed out back to Sweden after 120 games and 30 points

09-Josefson-4th liner who can't ever score

10-traded

11-won the lottery and got Larsson

12-Matteau-AHL player at best

13-traded for Schneider

14-Quenneville-still hasn't made the jump

15-Zacha

Not to mention continually brining in over the hill vets and flat out bad players like Ryder, Ruutu, Clowe, Tootoo, Brunner, Havlat. Lou set this team back years because he was too stubborn to commit to a rebuild. The man is a legend but the mess the Devils are getting out of is entirely his doing.

Lou was great until the new millennium. But that was decades ago. I recall the Leafs bringing back Punch Imlach in his 2nd round of tour for the Leafs. He effectively tore apart what was a promising team. He was too set in old methods, of his way or the highway approach that once worked, but did not in present hockey. That should be a cautionary lesson here.

I think Lou is part of the past. No one can take away what he did for the Devils, and Devils fans will always have a place in their hearts for the 3 cups he brought to NJ. But in today's hockey his methods are outdated as well as his philosophies in Managing a NHL team as you highlighted so well.

 

[Edmonton East]

A little yes a little no.
I will grant you, that the prior hires of Dubas and Hunter, really spurred the team on in terms of personnel.
What Lou did bring, is his iron fist of rules and far more important, the cone of slience. In the latter aspect, no team in the league needed that, more than the Leafs. The iron fist came with dispatching players, who treated Horachek as a supply teacher, and the leaders of salutegate. Lou wasn't so much personnel, as structure, to Shanny's vision.

You know what, I'll absolutely concede that point. In terms of dealing with that media circus up there, Lou has probably been huge. I think a lot of us on the Devs board figured that was why he was brought in back when it happened.

 

[Devils090]

It's funny because I remember a time when the Devils were considered the gold standard of drafting, due to David Conte, and also the gold standard of trades, signing UFAs, and having an internal salary cap when none was required.

The drafting of Petr Sykora, Patrik Elias, Scott Gomez, the signing of John Madden and Brian Rafalski, the contracts of Scott Stevens, Scott Niedermayer, Martin Brodeur, not being afraid to let go Bobby Holik and Alex Mogilny and winning yet another Stanley cup.

What you are asking for is perfection. No GM bats 1.000. But Lamoriello batted higher than any other GM in modern history. That is an indication you should look for blame elsewhere.

Nobody is discrediting the good things he did, but when a team goes from perennial playoff appearences to the basement it's more than likely on the GM, especially one who had as much control and influence as Lou did in NJ.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Nobody is discrediting the good things he did, but when a team goes from perennial playoff appearences to the basement it's more than likely on the GM, especially one who had as much control and influence as Lou did in NJ.

Fair enough. My issue was Devils fans not appreciating what he had done for Devils hockey, but if that's not the case, then I've no issues.

 

[Devils090]

Fair enough. My issue was Devils fans not appreciating what he had done for Devils hockey, but if that's not the case, then I've no issues.

Anyone who doesn't is either too young to have witnessed the good years or just an idiot

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Here is an interesting SNET article for Devils fans in case they have not seen it. I think they will like the message and expectations now. The Devils seem to be well on their way to recovery.
GM Ray Shero: Devils ‘have to get respect back’

At this point in the club’s rebuild, Shero is simply looking for respect.

“Last year, to me and to [head coach John Hynes], it certainly was not representative of the team we wanted to have or how wanted to play and the meetings I had with players—I didn’t meet with that many players after the season, to be honest, but when I did I made it really clear I wasn’t happy and it’s not, to me, the type of team I’m going to have.”

Shero explained his mindset this past off-season, and how he addressed it with his players ahead of training camp.
“And then some of the players we brought in really make a difference and at the same time the guys have been, just that we have to get the respect back in the league,” Shero said. “That’s it. That’s my goal. We have to get respect back in the league and that’s going to start Day 1 of training camp in how we’re going to play, how we’re going to practice.”
Clearly, it has resonated so far. The Devils have put together two strong wins with plenty of contributions from young players.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

You know what, I'll absolutely concede that point. In terms of dealing with that media circus up there, Lou has probably been huge. I think a lot of us on the Devs board figured that was why he was brought in back when it happened.

And like I said I think the key point too is he isn't being asked to head up the draft at all. They have basically handed the draft to Hunter. Because I agree his last few years were extremely underwhelming but I think utilized in a different way in Toronto and more so just sticking to the key strengths he brings to the table and letting the younger people in the room do the leg work. In the end I think the Devils needed a fresh face and what he has brought to the Leafs was sorely needed as well. Worked out well for all involved.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Here is an interesting SNET article for Devils fans in case they have not seen it. I think they will like the message and expectations now. The Devils seem to be well on their way to recovery.
GM Ray Shero: Devils ‘have to get respect back’

Great article. It would be great to see them become powerful again. The easiest way for them to gain respect is to make the playoffs, as that is the barometer for respect around the league.

It would also be wonderful for Swiss hockey to see their boy lead his team to the playoffs after just one year after getting drafted. That is not even something that McDavid or Eichel could do. It would be quite a feat. It's certainly possible, but naturally still premature to say how the season plays out.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I may not get it, as I am not a Maple Leafs fan in the conventional sense (I like the Maple Leafs as I do many teams, including New Jersey), but I would attribute a good portion of Toronto's turnaround to Lamoriello.

But back to New Jersey, I would disagree with your assessment of Lamoriello. He kept the Devils in contention from the 1990's all the way through to 2012, more or less. Devils fans may have become spoiled by Lamoriello's long track record of success, which simply speaks for itself. However, rest assured it is the norm among the rest of GMs NOT to have that type of long standing success with one organization.

Brodeur and Brodeur alone kept us competitive from '06-'10. Lou made some atrocious moves during that time like the Mogilny and Malakhov deals, and we were totally barren in terms of prospects. With average goaltending we would have been a basement team.

Marty played out of his mind those years and masked the rot going on underneath. I consider myself lucky to have seen those years, a +35 year old goalie who was in the best form of his career and literally winning division titles by himself. It wasn't until he started showing his age in calendar year 2011 that these things finally caught up to us.

But the exodus of talent, poor drafting, cap mismanagement, and bloated veteran UFA deals had been going on long before that. After Stevens and Niedermayer left Lou never really had an answer.

 

[McFlash97]

Great article. It would be great to see them become powerful again. The easiest way for them to gain respect is to make the playoffs, as that is the barometer for respect around the league.

It would also be wonderful for Swiss hockey to see their boy lead his team to the playoffs after just one year after getting drafted. That is not even something that McDavid or Eichel could do. It would be quite a feat. It's certainly possible, but naturally still premature to say how the season plays out.

Let's get real here. In his first full season McDavid made the Oilers into cup contenders. Please don't compare Nico with Connor here. Connor is on a whole another level.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Brodeur and Brodeur alone kept us competitive from '06-'10. Lou made some atrocious moves during that time like the Mogilny and Malakhov deals, and we were totally barren in terms of prospects. With average goaltending we would have been a basement team.

Marty played out of his mind those years and masked the rot going on underneath. I consider myself lucky to have seen those years, a +35 year old goalie who was in the best form of his career and literally winning division titles by himself. It wasn't until he started showing his age in calendar year 2011 that these things finally caught up to us.

But the exodus of talent, poor drafting, cap mismanagement, and bloated veteran UFA deals had been going on long before that. After Stevens and Niedermayer left Lou never really had an answer.

As we should consider ourselves lucky. It was a treat to watch Stevens, Niedermayer and Brodeur for so long. That's the type of core that rivals the very best in other dynasties. It rivals a Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Smith type core. A Sakic, Forsberg, Roy type core. Hockey is richer for it.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Let's get real here. In his first full season McDavid made the Oilers into cup contenders. Please don't compare Nico with Connor here. Connor is on a whole another level.

McDavid is great, but he didn't do it in his first rookie year. My post wasn't meant to be about McDavid, but more about what Hischier can do. I think Hischier can do something really special this year.

 

[Devils090]

Also, when Shero took over this is what the Devils lineup looked like(lines improvised, just filling position by position)

Cammalleri-Zajac-Zubrus
Elias-Henrique-Havlat
Ruutu-Gomez-Bernier
Matteau-Josefson-Tootoo
Boucher/Gionta/Clowe(LTIR)

Greene-Larsson
Severson-Fraser
Harrold-Merrill
Gelinas

Schneider...only reason this team wasn't dead last, posted a .925 sv% and a 2.26 goals against, he was elite that year

And our best prospect aside from Severson, who made the team in camp, was Matteau(?). Just a trainwreck all around.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Also, when Shero took over this is what the Devils lineup looked like(lines improvised, just filling position by position)

Cammalleri-Zajac-Zubrus
Elias-Henrique-Havlat
Ruutu-Gomez-Bernier
Matteau-Josefson-Tootoo
Boucher/Gionta/Clowe(LTIR)

Greene-Larsson
Severson-Fraser
Harrold-Merrill
Gelinas

Schneider...only reason this team wasn't dead last, posted a .925 sv% and a 2.26 goals against, he was elite that year

And our best prospect aside from Severson, who made the team in camp, was Matteau(?). Just a trainwreck all around.

Yeah this is nuts to think about. I don't mind that most mainstream fans consider the Devils an afterthought, but it's a damn shame Shero doesn't get more attention for what he's done. This guy has been an absolute magician.

 

[Devils090]

Yeah this is nuts to think about. I don't mind that most mainstream fans consider the Devils an afterthought, but it's a damn shame Shero doesn't get more attention for what he's done. This guy has been an absolute magician.

EXactly. When other fans come in and tell Devils fans to relax and not get excited go look at that lineup I posted. We should be commended for having to suffer through that garbage.

 

[Classic Devil]

Lou Lamoriello was the best GM in hockey from 1987 until ~2005. There's not a doubt in my mind of that. He didn't come to a franchise that had nothing - the Devils were clearly a team on the way up in 1987-1988 even before he took over as GM - but he came to a franchise in search of an identity and he instilled that of a champion from the moment he took the job.

Over the course of the next twenty years he was marvelous. The Devils drafted well. The Devils - especially - traded well. Every time it seemed like the team might be stagnating, Lamoriello pulled off the trade the Devils needed to move forward: Muller for Richer, Turgeon for Lemieux, Guerin for Arnott, Burke for Holik, Arnott for Langenbrunner, Sykora for Friesen. Lou was the master of trading a good player for another good player. He didn't outright win these trades: the team we dealt with usually got a damn good player themselves. But it brought fresh blood and made sure things never got stale.

As a consequence, the Devils never added a key piece through free agency. Ancillary pieces, yes, but key pieces? Never. They didn't need to.

Plus, Lou pulled off utter magic like Shanahan for Stevens (and Parise), and the perfect deadline deals: Mogilny, Marshall, Broten, Chambers, Malakhov. He always knew just what the team needed for that final push.

But after 2005 all his magic evaporated. The player-for-player trades? They stopped. Lou got too attached to players and hung onto guys he would've traded five or ten years before. The team stagnated and tried to avoid turning stale through dipping into the UFA market, which never worked. Lou never really adjusted to lower UFA age, which played havoc with his previous practices. The Devils drafting went through a period of complete and utter catastrophe starting in about 2000. From 2000 until 2010 the Devils drafted 4 impact players: Paul Martin, Zach Parise, Travis Zajac, and Adam Henrique. That's it. As a consequence the team just didn't have assets to sustain any kind of competitiveness.

When Lou has to rely on the free agent market, he fails. And the well of talent from the draft going dry meant he didn't have as much to work with for trades. So he relied on free agents. And he failed.

This in part is due to Lamoriello and Conte's draft philosophy, which just never adapted to the new NHL. The policy of drafting size before skill meant the team rarely produced talent in later rounds, and never produced talent whose value was greater than the picks used to select it. The Devils did continue to produce undrafted talent (Greene, Clarkson), something that helped compensate somewhat for the desert our drafting had entered.

And at the same time, the Devils collapsed financially as ownership spiraled into the abyss.

That Lou managed to keep the Devils competitive for nearly ten years despite this is a testament to just how good a GM he is. But that the Devils were no longer championship caliber - a 2012 lightning in a bottle run to the finals notwithstanding - was also attributable to the mistakes he made post-lockout.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yeah this is nuts to think about. I don't mind that most mainstream fans consider the Devils an afterthought, but it's a damn shame Shero doesn't get more attention for what he's done. This guy has been an absolute magician.

I didn't know it was this bad. Around the league the league wide view of Lamoriello then was he was a GM living on his past successes. he made some really questionable moves in his latter years, the Clowe signing, the losing of a higher pick (only to regain 31)due to cap circumvention. But the more it is chronicled here, one can see why he was pushed upstairs. Pretty abysmal his last years there. Really put the Devils up against it when Shero came in. You may be right, Shero may deserve more credit than he has gotten already. BTW I for one do not view the Devils as an afterthought.

 

[DEVILS130]

Also, when Shero took over this is what the Devils lineup looked like(lines improvised, just filling position by position)

Cammalleri-Zajac-Zubrus
Elias-Henrique-Havlat
Ruutu-Gomez-Bernier
Matteau-Josefson-Tootoo
Boucher/Gionta/Clowe(LTIR)

Greene-Larsson
Severson-Fraser
Harrold-Merrill
Gelinas

Schneider...only reason this team wasn't dead last, posted a .925 sv% and a 2.26 goals against, he was elite that year

And our best prospect aside from Severson, who made the team in camp, was Matteau(?). Just a trainwreck all around.

Yikes...I don't want to see that lineup ever again

 

[PWiz30]

Ray turned up the good and turned down the suck.