The defense is better today than it was yesterday.

[Guided by Veseys]

Schenn was a gamer in his time here but you could see how it’s not long before he is full pylon with only some use net front and occasionally scrapping. We had our chance with him last playoffs and blew it. It’s only downhill for him and probably at a geometric rate.

 

[Fogelhund]

Noting, Gustafsson signed for $825k with the Rangers. He put up more points, and was better defensively than Klingberg last year.

 

[NJG]

All the people crying about the defense when the defense isn't even finished being built.

Typical Leaf fan meltdown.

 

[Fogelhund]

I only watched the playoffs this year and McCabe was awful. Muzzin was a key piece to the defense. He falls under the aging vet criteria.

Muzzin. Is irrelevant. He’ll never play again.

Ask yourself, why did McCabe and Brodie struggle in the series against Florida?

Both of them are good D, but neither one are particularly good puck movers. You really need to pair them with guys who can move the puck, for them to be effective. To me that was a Keefe coaching mistake.

 

[shaner8989]

The loss of Holl is a significant positive.
The loss of Schenn hurts physically but he’s not good
The addition of Klingberg is great for the offense and hurts the D zone

Hard to say if we’re better or worse.

 

[thewave]

Noting, Gustafsson signed for $825k with the Rangers. He put up more points, and was better defensively than Klingberg last year.

I don't think the next 2-3 years are going to make for very happy Leafs fans. I do however think that there is going to be a group of people that will blame it all on Dubas being fired.

Lets see if it works out like that, very interested.

 

[Sypher04]

Schenn was a gamer in his time here but you could see how it’s not long before he is full pylon with only some use net front and occasionally scrapping. We had our chance with him last playoffs and blew it. It’s only downhill for him and probably at a geometric rate.

I loved having Schenn back, but definitely not at 2.75M

Noting, Gustafsson signed for $825k with the Rangers. He put up more points, and was better defensively than Klingberg last year.

Gustafsson had a better year, but I don’t think he’s even close to as good a player.

Also, not sure people should read that much into Klingberg’s plus minus, as I’m sure most people are doing when assessing him not being decent defensively. Yes, he was a significant minus, but he was -28 in Anaheim (where they were overall brutal) and a positive player in Minnesota

 

[Gary Nylund]

All the people crying about the defense when the defense isn't even finished being built.

Typical Leaf fan meltdown.

Take a peek at the thread title and pay specific attention to the word "today".

 

[Stephen]

Klingberg is better then Schenn too (offensively and defensively) but you wouldn't know it by reading hfboards

Klingberg scored 20 points in the 2020 playoffs run where Dallas went to the finals and played over 23 minutes. He had Lindell and Heiskanen ahead of him but that's some elite production from the blueline and fairly recently.

Would have been the second most productive Leaf D in 2022 and 2023.

Things went downhill in his prove me year in Anaheim... but this is essentially a Brandon Montour style roll of the dice where you get a distressed asset at a lower price and see how it goes. Did we solve all of our D problems with this signing? No. Are we finished building the blueline? I would assume no.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I only watched the playoffs this year and McCabe was awful. Muzzin was a key piece to the defense. He falls under the aging vet criteria.

McCabe was awful against FLA but he was pretty good with Brodie against TB. It seems that after the first round when Keefe said he was somewhat happy with his play "but wanted more offense from him" that his play declined because he stopped hitting and was looking to pinch a lot. I am going to reserve judgement until I see him this season.

 

[Advanced stats]

Holl is not great in his own end, but he is miles ahead of Klingberg defensively.

 

[NJG]

Take a peek at the thread title and pay specific attention to the word "today".

It doesn't matter, the fact the thread came out a day after free agency just further proves my point. Crying about something that will be different in a week is typical of Leaf fans.

People do realize Nylander is gone right? Brodie is probably gone. Liljegren / Kokkonen should be traded for a defensive d-man prospect(s).

 

[socko]

McCabe was awful against FLA but he was pretty good with Brodie against TB. It seems that after the first round when Keefe said he was somewhat happy with his play "but wanted more offense from him" that his play declined because he stopped hitting and was looking to pinch a lot. I am going to reserve judgement until I see him this season.

That's fair. I don't judge on such a small sample size either. Anyone can have a bad stretch of games. It's interesting how the Dubas crowd, who always pumps how much Dubas improved the defense, went completely silent about the defense this year though. Outside of the Rielly/Schenn pairing, it was a complete crap show.

 

[Trapper]

There is no way to say this is better until we see it live. On ice.
It isn’t like we traded for Pesce, signed Pietrangelo, acquired Orlov and say now it is.
Truth is, we have no idea.

 

[socko]

Muzzin. Is irrelevant. He’ll never play again.

Ask yourself, why did McCabe and Brodie struggle in the series against Florida?

Both of them are good D, but neither one are particularly good puck movers. You really need to pair them with guys who can move the puck, for them to be effective. To me that was a Keefe coaching mistake.

I remember when we first got Muzzin. He was playing like he still played for the Kings. Destroying people. I was a fan. But he slowly got Leafified and played a softer and softer game. Such a waste.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It doesn't matter, the fact the thread came out a day after free agency just further proves my point. Crying about something that will be different in a week is typical of Leaf fans.

People do realize Nylander is gone right? Brodie is probably gone. Liljegren / Kokkonen should be traded for a defensive d-man prospect(s).

If "typical Leaf fans" bother you so much, why are you wasting your time here?

Is Nylander gone? Link?

 

[Stephen]

Schenn was a gamer in his time here but you could see how it’s not long before he is full pylon with only some use net front and occasionally scrapping. We had our chance with him last playoffs and blew it. It’s only downhill for him and probably at a geometric rate.

If he had stayed on with a Gio type contract it would have been happily ever after, but now we don't have to worry about him declining as he enters his mid to late 30s.

 

[notbias]

I remember when we first got Muzzin. He was playing like he still played for the Kings. Destroying people. I was a fan. But he slowly got Leafified and played a softer and softer game. Such a waste.

This just isn't true...

 

[Stephen]

There is no way to say this is better until we see it live. On ice.
It isn’t like we traded for Pesce, signed Pietrangelo, acquired Orlov and say now it is.
Truth is, we have no idea.

The way Carolina loaded up on Orlov, I wonder if that Pesce+ for Nylander could be on the books later into the summer.

 

[NJG]

If "typical Leaf fans" bother you so much, why are you wasting your time here?

Is Nylander gone? Link?

Never mentioned being bothered at all.

The fact you can't put two and two together shows you don't know hockey or what you're talking about. I never said he officially got traded, anyone with common sense can see that because of Dubas signing Tavares and we can't get rid of him, someone else has to go. We don't have the cap space, that someone else is Nylander.

 

[Trapper]

The way Carolina loaded up on Orlov, I wonder if that Pesce+ for Nylander could be on the books later into the summer.

It’s possible they are foregoing some UFA signings because a trade (a major trade) is in the works.

 

[LeafGrief]

I'm bummed that we lost Schenn, he punched above his weight and brought some stability to the top4. I think he did the Holl job of playing well with one of our real top4 horses in Rielly, much like Hainsey did before him. 2.75m was a bit rich for a Schenn extension, but we probably could have paid it and been alright.

The lack of puck movement from our blueline was a huge problem last playoffs. The Panthers forecheck ate us alive because none of our guys could pass the puck out of the zone. We spend a shitload of money on elite forwards, so spending on guys who will get them the puck is worthwhile, even if it costs us in our own end. Klingberg will almost certainly help with that, and will also provide a threat from the blueline which will open up a new offensive dimension for the big guns to pass back to in the Ozone. I'm skeptical of the AAV, but I think there's a lot of potential for a good fit here.

I do agree that the defense is better today than it was yesterday. We still need a Muzzin replacement to have a blueline that's championship quality, so the wait continues. As always, this team is still completely handcuffed by too much money on forwards who can't get it done when it matters.

 

[Sypher04]

I remember when we first got Muzzin. He was playing like he still played for the Kings. Destroying people. I was a fan. But he slowly got Leafified and played a softer and softer game. Such a waste.

His injuries took a toll on him

 

[Aashir]

They find a way to bring in dumba for a good deal and then we will talk

 

[MAB1]

Klingberg being heavily underrated here, guys a phenomenal PMD. Good skater, good passer. He's a 6'3 right shot D-man who can provide offence, averages 54 points per 82 games played.

Apart from Rielly we had little to no contribution from the blue line, this is gonna give us more breakout ability and offence from the backend. Especially with the skill/speed we have on our roster, I think he's a great fit.

Also it's July 2nd, Treliving is hardly done making the moves he wants to. Still a pretty good chance Nylander gets traded for another D-man, solidifying the D-core. Carolina just signed Orlov, Carolina absolutely has to move a D-man. Ideally I want Slavin, but I don't think the Canes even consider moving him, most likely Pesce. The deal just makes too much sense from both teams perspectives, but then again Carolina likes to hoard D-men so they might not move on from him.

There should be no reason the Leafs trade a 40 goal, ppg winger that shows up in the playoffs for a 3-4D with zero offence.