I really need to start saving this so I can repost it whenever someone asks the question, because I have lot of legitimate criticisms of Green but half the time I forget to list them all.
I'm sure there's more, but like I said, I tend to forget in the spur of the moment.
- We turtle once we have the lead. Last night, we were playing some good hockey. We were winning possession-wise and once we had the lead we stopped playing dynamic, started collapsing and trying to defend, which we are terrible at. When it was 2-2 suddenly we started to forecheck more aggressively and stopped playing Green's ultra-passive way. It's very surprising to me that we are doing something well that is bringing us success, and the players are told to change it.
- The ultra-passive way. Our changeup from defending last season to now seems to be collapse even harder with less pressure on the opposing team. We are getting one forward applying pressure instead of two. This makes it even easier for the opposition to control the puck. Just look at our possession metrics against Buffalo, a team that is comprised almost entirely of guys that would not make the roster on most other NHL teams.
- New and unimproved penalty kill. Yes we are missing Motte & Sutter, but this is essentially an extension of the last two points. Our defenders don't apply any pressure, which would be fine if other teams played the PP like us but they don't, because that would be stupid. Which brings me to...
- Complete and utter lack of movement on PP1. This has been a thorn in my side for literal years now. Our players stand in a diamond around the outside with Bo in the middle, and lazily pass the puck back and forth. I would have killed to defend against a powerplay this slow when I was still playing hockey that mattered. It's so, so easy to defend against a puck that isn't moving. We have to pass way faster and move our feet when we have the puck to force the defenders to adjust. If you don't move the defenders don't either, which means no seams are opening up. This is shit that has gone on for years and it boggles my mind because even AAA teams know that puck movement is essential.
- Unnecessary line juggling. Most of us probably agree that we got goalied in Detroit, which begs the question: why mess with a lineup that was bringing us success everywhere but the scoresheet? We're four games in and guys have barely had a chance to play together on structured lines yet, and now you're making huge shuffles like Miller to 3C and swapping in our bottom pairing from the bench. I can understand wanting to get your 7/8 D in a game, but a lot of the other line juggling, especially this early, works against a team that is on the road and can't focus on practising and gelling.
- Killing creativity. Our best players aren't free to do what they do best. With the exceptionally rigid structure of zone entries and O-zone play where players are anchored to specific sub-areas of the zone completely annihilates the ability of our top players to make top plays. It is predictable as all hell, and predictable forwards are the easiest to defend against. This was actually a strength of Green when he first started - the rigid structure is exactly what you need when you have a roster full of plugs as it takes the thinking out of the game. For the love of god though, when Elias god damn Pettersson is completely invisible all night long because he's just in areas that are irrelevant to the play, give him more leash. The systems are choking out our stars.
- In-game Confusion. Our lines don't know who is going on for who, partially because of Travis "Vitamix" Green's constant line blending, partially because our special teams sure are special. You see multiple guys on the bench standing to go on when they aren't up. Either Buffalo or Detroit had someone hop over the boards only to immediately hop back on the bench when another guy went too. This happens nearly every game, and it's part of the reason we get so many too many men penalties
- Game management, or lack thereof. How many timeouts have you seen Green call to calm his team down and re-center them on the goals of what they are trying to accomplish? (I know he did yesterday at least, which is good) How many times have we allowed a few quick ones, only for the same players to head out and do the exact same things?
The sad thing is I defended Green for years, and I thought he was able to squeeze blood from a stone when we were a much worse team. The main issue I have is that our roster is better than its been in nearly a decade, but we are playing worse and he hasn't adapted to the new tools he's been given. Offseason and training camp is plenty long enough to develop new systems, but he shockingly seems to have doubled down on his passive playstyle and it is driving me absolutely f***ing ballistic.
TL;DR: long time defender, first time hater for what I consider several legitimate hockey-based reasons.
Yes, he coached a team that had the best goaltending in playoffs history while scoring the least goals in playoffs history to the cup finals with 44 goals in 21 games and then got to coach a team with multiple hall of famers to many playoff appearances and Cups. Giguire is the only one responsible for Anaheim, .950 is absolutely ridiculous over a full playoffs.Huh? Babcock took a grinding Anaheim team to the Stanley Cup finals. He got the Leafs to the playoffs in his 2nd year with a rookie Matthews. He's got a ton of warts as a human being, but he absolutely made a difference for every team he's ever coached.
18 years as a head coach at the NHL and AHL levels. 16 playoff appearances. Travis Green, in comparison, 3/9 as a professional coach.
So many executives nowadays want to cosplay being a banker and talk about how "wins and losses aren't everything, you have to look beyond that". Well sometimes, wins and losses do in fact tell the story.
Green would be a bad hire. He's proven to be a below average coach. And to boot, he's not well liked by his former players or teammates. At least DJ Smith was a good guy.
Green was a pretty hot commodity when he was hired by Vancouver, and the team showed steady progress his first 3 years while transitioning from being the Sedins team to Pettersson and Hughes' team.You could very well be right. Difficult to say with no inside knowledge.
I don't expect we're at the top of the list of ideal coaching destinations.
Still I'd expect there should be better options than Green.
I’d love Gruden as an assistant, but didn’t Gruden literally leave the Boston assistant position so he could be a head coach in the AHL? Why would he agree to an assistant position in Ottawa?I suspect well find out Green's (potential) hiring was in part because he agreed to put Gruden on the bench with him. Likely why we hired someone who didn't have the leverage to make that call. Just speculating though.
He likely fits what the Sens want to do moving forward.
Staios wants to play a certain way, and build a team a certain way.
He isn't just looking at coaches who were blessed with very good teams and great goaltending to have success in the league.
Babcock had all the success in the world and was the most in demand coach, probably ever, because he was able to coach teams with over half a dozen hall of famers and go on to winning series. He made absolutely no difference when was coaching a team without that talent, he was just any other coach.
They're looking for who they see as a fit with what they have, and what they want to do. They likely have a better idea on what that is, and what Greene brings, than we do reading what other fans are saying about him
He's not who I'd hire, but that's pretty irrelevant as I really have no clue what he brings/doesn't bring outside of secondhand info from others. Just like with every other coach available.
He just finished a season as an assistantGreen is probably surprised he even got a second interview. Most coaches with that kind of resume usually build themselves back up by going back to the AHL or becoming NHL assistants. This guy just jumps into another head coach position?
I think management wants to be a playoff team asap but it’s not the most stable situation, at least I wouldn’t view it as such. Like realistically if we aren’t good next season, this core is gonna get broken up, Brady could ask for a trade etc. Then it’s almost a different job than what you initially signed up for. I’m sure these coaches see that.Is Staios looking for rooking coach for the same reason Dorion did? No upward pressure?
Maybe all the other coaches are looking to win today while our management team thinks we're many years away?
Green was a pretty hot commodity when he was hired by Vancouver, and the team showed steady progress his first 3 years while transitioning from being the Sedins team to Pettersson and Hughes' team.
It seems like Julien is willing and wanting to sign here, if we end up with Green it's likely because Staios thinks more highly of him that those around here do.
I'm not thrilled with the potential hire, but I also won't be rushing to judge it since as fans we don't really have a lot of visibility. At best we can look to end results and how player he coached viewed him, but I haven't seen much on Green.
I’d love Gruden ad an assistant, but didn’t Gruden literally leave the Boston assistant position so he could be a head coach in the AHL? Why would he agree to an assistant position in Ottawa?
I'm not going to be one to defend Green as a devils fan, but I will say that I'm not sure how much of a chance he had. I think Fitz is swinging big in the coach search. Pick the wrong coach / goalie and it could be the end for him as GM. If I had to guess, I think he'll swing decently big on both thinking that it's more likely to work wellSurely the fact that New Jersey (a young team in a similar position to us) gave him a test drive and said no is a red flag, right?
I’d love Gruden as an assistant, but didn’t Gruden literally leave the Boston assistant position so he could be a head coach in the AHL? Why would he agree to an assistant position in Ottawa?
I think it's less about coaches not making a difference, and more about fans ability to actually determine the difference a coach makes tends to be limited.This new thought that coaches make no difference is very wild
It's very bizarre to meI think it's less about coaches not making a difference, and more about fans ability to actually determine the difference a coach makes tends to be limited.
Hell, MacLean was runner up and winner of the Jack Adams, yet most here seem to have thought he was a terrible coach, Boucher took us to the ECF, and people think he was terrible. Do we think Babcock would have done better at the helm than either of those guys? Honestly, it's hard to say.
People thought that Maurice was a bad coach when he was with the leafs, Missed the playoffs in 13 out of 18 of his years as HC until the Jets turned things around a he's been in the playoffs 6 out of 7 years between two teams, with a WCF and trip the cup finals to his name.
From the outside looking in, it's not easy to evaluate a coach, thats all.
I think it's less about coaches not making a difference, and more about fans ability to actually determine the difference a coach makes tends to be limited.
Hell, MacLean was runner up and winner of the Jack Adams, yet most here seem to have thought he was a terrible coach, Boucher took us to the ECF, and people think he was terrible. Do we think Babcock would have done better at the helm than either of those guys? Honestly, it's hard to say.
People thought that Maurice was a bad coach when he was with the leafs, Missed the playoffs in 13 out of 18 of his years as HC until the Jets turned things around a he's been in the playoffs 6 out of 7 years between two teams, with a WCF and trip the cup finals to his name.
From the outside looking in, it's not easy to evaluate a coach, thats all.
He was one of the candidates to replace Boudreau in Anahiem, he was certainly getting talked about as one of the up and coming coaches.He was never a hot commodity. He was the coach of their AHL team and missed the playoffs before being promoted to the big club. He was chosen because the Canucks had a GM out of his depth and a cheap, impulsive, meddling owner. They kept him in town far too long, fans were furious, and things have improved every since he left.
This is a fun analysis from a Canucks fan on Reddit:
He was one of the candidates to replace Boudreau in Anahiem, he was certainly getting talked about as one of the up and coming coaches.
Is Travis Green in with the Tkachuk family?
They played together.
Brady's NMC is coming up next year. He was presumably a DJ guy. Travis Green is obviously an in demand NHL coach, I'm not suggesting he is unqualified.
Is it possible that out of the qualified candidates, Tkachuk had some level of influence?