Al14
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- Jul 13, 2007
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The Case for Tyler Bozak: All Tyler Bozak Discussion Here
- Thread starter HockeyThoughts
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Where is the extra cap space for ROR coming from?
Obviously you trade Kadri, Gardiner and a 1st in order to make space for the Bozak for RoR trade!!
Bozak gets no respect; averaged .84 points per game last season and .90 this season while top ten in faceoffs won and is an excellent defensive player.
The Apologist
Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
Pyromaniac3
Registered User
The problem I personally have with Bozak is that he is nothing special. What does he exactly do that Kadri, Holland or Santorelli can't do? Other than faceoffs, there is nothing he does offensively (cannot produce without Kessel) or defensively (.
He is just a mediocre jack of all trades player.
Now the question is, do we want a not so special player on the 1st line?
He is just a mediocre jack of all trades player.
Now the question is, do we want a not so special player on the 1st line?
He is playing well right now, so there's no complaint from me in that regard. My criticism's are more aimed at his value going forward, and his value away from Kessel. I think it would be in the teams best interest to trade Bozak for younger assets while his value has never been higher, and this is largely due to the point you make. If Kadri can do the exact same thing he is doing now, and we have younger C's beginning to make the jump, Bozak is the odd man out due to his age and contract.
Only problem is we don't actually know for sure that Holland and Kadri can replace him, because Bozak can never be separated from Kessel for very long. As I said, if Colorado decides they need to move out ROR for cap reasons (Duchene and Mack are going to get big money) then Leafs should be all over trying to get ROR for Bozak (+ if necessary). We get a younger center with higher upside and continue to build on the fly (this is assuming we sign Kadri this offseason and don't ship him out), and the Av's get a great affordable vet player to play 2/3C split and PK, and allocate the extra cap into wingers/D upgrades.
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It comes down to the call from above... You can't develop "SPECIAL" players in secondary roles playing beneath there talent level which is why this organization constantly ends up trading youth away only to see them thrive somewhere else and we're left with this bogus entity that it's the pressure of the big market that said player couldn't play in.
Bozak is a good player somebody who could help a contender out as depth but to have him in such a key role playing over you know who
helps the short term a bit more but massively hurts the long term not too mention devalue the younger more talented asset of you know who.We need management with balls like the move Montreal did not too long ago with Price and Halak. This team isn't winning anything any time soon although I'm not a Bozak hater at all (He can play on my team any day) the time has come to maximize on his trade value IMO a trait this organization constantly go's without and actually role with the other 2 young guys in Kadri & Holland 1-2 . Not a popular belief but one I feel is a necessity to avoid making a long term mistake like Montreal did when they traded Halak instead of Price when Halak was clearly out playing Price.
Bozak IMO should be the Leafs best trade chip right now especially come the trade deadline. Unless you feel this team can contend there's no reason to think other wise. It's not like he's elite like Kessel which is exactly what you want playing with your talented youth to insulate there growth & development not to mention giving them a top player to play with only helps just like it helped Bozak out to become the player he is... took him 6 years but hey
We talk about leadership a little too much when it comes to the players. The leadership issue consist in management and coaches being on the same page backed by ownership to do right by means of it's youth. Time and time again we don't commit to youth when we should and ultimately is why we haven't drafted or developed a young guy into an allstar since freaking Kaberle and as long as we continue on with this trait of playing the Gunnarsson's and Bozak's of the world over the more talented Kadri's, Gardiner's, Rielly's and Yes even Holland we will never see anything grow from within into the "Special" player you talk about eluding Bozak. The only way is to trade for it like the last 2 special players in Sundin & Kessel.
Rinse and repeat. Rielly not exactly looking special is he? Next will be Nylander and then you tell me where this organization lacks leadership in. It starts from the owners mandate
JFJ was victimized by this mandate that I personally don't see being rectified any time soon The problem you have with him is why I like him. He's a respectable all around hockey player who is able to put him points with the top line, play pp/pk, is a staple for our shootout and is signed long term on a cap-friendly contract (2nd line money in today's cap). He is also seemingly well liked in the room, and has not been at all a problem for the fans or media of this city. While I would prefer a better player to play #1 C, we do not have one currently in our organization (just because Kadri could also put up points with Kessel does not mean he has in any way deserves to displace Bozak), and for what he can bring to the table, why trade him? He would be a nice depth piece able to slide up/down if we ever did get that #1.
Every player has their issues, Tyler clearly does as well, but the positives outweigh the negatives.
It comes down to the call from above... You can't develop "SPECIAL" players in secondary roles playing beneath there talent level which is why this organization constantly ends up trading youth away only to see them thrive somewhere else and we're left with this bogus entity that it's the pressure of the big market that said player couldn't play in.
Bozak is a good player somebody who could help a contender out as depth but to have him in such a key role playing over you know who
We need management with balls like the move Montreal did not too long ago with Price and Halak. This team isn't winning anything any time soon although I'm not a Bozak hater at all (He can play on my team any day) the time has come to maximize on his trade value IMO a trait this organization constantly go's without and actually role with the other 2 young guys in Kadri & Holland 1-2 . Not a popular belief but one I feel is a necessity to avoid making a long term mistake like Montreal did when they traded Halak instead of Price when Halak was clearly out playing Price.
Bozak IMO should be the Leafs best trade chip right now especially come the trade deadline. Unless you feel this team can contend there's no reason to think other wise. It's not like he's elite like Kessel which is exactly what you want playing with your talented youth to insulate there growth & development not to mention giving them a top player to play with only helps just like it helped Bozak out to become the player he is... took him 6 years but hey
We talk about leadership a little too much when it comes to the players. The leadership issue consist in management and coaches being on the same page backed by ownership to do right by means of it's youth. Time and time again we don't commit to youth when we should and ultimately is why we haven't drafted or developed a young guy into an allstar since freaking Kaberle and as long as we continue on with this trait of playing the Gunnarsson's and Bozak's of the world over the more talented Kadri's, Gardiner's, Rielly's and Yes even Holland we will never see anything grow from within into the "Special" player you talk about eluding Bozak. The only way is to trade for it like the last 2 special players in Sundin & Kessel.
Rinse and repeat. Rielly not exactly looking special is he? Next will be Nylander and then you tell me where this organization lacks leadership in. It starts from the owners mandate
Agreed with the entire post except the bottom paragraph. Player development involves giving the developing players the ability to play in tough minutes. With our team, we continue to pass over young players for Vets who haven't even earned there minutes. Why would Kadri develop into a 1st C when he is being given 2/3 C minutes, both ES and on the PP? Now apparently he isn't even going to get 2nd PP minutes because of Clarkson? I'm not saying players don't have to earn their spots, I'm just saying vets have to be equally accountable, something that isn't happening on this team.
For instance, JVR. He was given 2nd/3rd line minutes due to Philly's depth, and never really broke out in Philly (injuries were a factor as well, however he recorded 38/40 points ES in his longest season there, suggesting poor pp time). When given top minutes here, he breaks out and is now a 30-30 player.
As for Rielly, the kid is 20 and is already a stable member of D core. Not many defensemen look as steady as he does at the age of 20, and I fully expect him to go no where but up from here. He will start getting 1st pairing minutes as soon as this year, or at least maybe as soon as Carlyle is fired.
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Where is the extra cap space for ROR coming from?
If we deal pending UFA Franson, the cap space will be there.
Yes, because it allows you to have special players down in the lineup giving you depth. Crosby has played with Dupuis for how many years now? They have Malkin who is capable of playing with Crosby on the RW, but he doesn't to create lineup deapth. Similar reasons for why Kane doesn't play with Toews, Carter doesn't play with Kopitar, Spezza doesn't (always) play with Benn + Seguin, Marleau doesn't play with Thornton.
You don't put all your eggs in one basket. Bozak has shown that he is plenty capable playing with Kessel without hindering Kessel's abilities. As a coach, you love those kind of players because it allows you to have a more rounded attack.
Crosby and Malkin are both centers who play together on the PP? Carter and Kopitar are both centers (who play on the same pp btw)? Spezza and Seguin are both centers(also play on the same pp unit)? Thorton and Marleau are both centers (oh look, they also play on the same pp unit)? Toews and Kane play on the pp together as well?
Am I missing something? I agree that Bozak shouldn't be moved from Kessel when Lupul is back, but all you just did was provide evidence that these teams usually play their top players on the top units at minimum on the pp (and most of these examples are centers). This currently is not the case with the Leafs, and the original debate from that poster was which C should be on the 1st line because they are all interchangeable.
HockeyThoughts
Delivering The Truth
This is something that Toronto Maple Leaf fans have contributed heavily too. He's gotten the David Desharnais treatment on these boards and it shows in the public perception (Main boards..etc) of Bozak as a player.
As my OP states:
Is Bozak the ideal #1 C? No.
Does he benefit from playing with Phil Kessel & JVR? Yes.
But how can you fault him for "leeching," when it really just means he's finally putting up a respectable amount of points playing with great linemates.
He was hated for never posting 50pts playing with Kessel. That's fine I agreed back then. But how can you hate him for now posting a ~70pt pace playing with Kessel?
Offensively at least, he's fulfilling the expectations of a top line center.
The issue arises when we consider the other responsibilities of a top line center in the NHL and Bozak's lackluster fancy stats.
Those who irrationally hate on Bozak are simply being silly and it's hard to take them seriously. He's a bonafide top 6 center, in his prime signed to a fair contract and he should be appreciated as such.
The issue shouldn't be whether Bozak is inadequate to play on our team. No. It should be whether he should be a top line or 2nd line center.
Bozak vs Kadri only in respects to where they slot into the top 6 is the only reasonable argument we should be having.
IMO The reason he gets alot of hate on here is because he did the hockey version of "sleeping his way to the top"
He was never drafted by anyone, isn't really a talented scorer and the only reason he's on the 1st line is because he formed a best friend relationship with Kessel.
The Apologist
Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
Bill Waters*
Registered User
HockeyThoughts
Delivering The Truth
Contrary to popular belief, Jonathan Cheechoo was actually a damn fine player before the San Jose Sharks acquired Joe Thornton. He was a former 1st round pick of the Sharks, and scored 28 goals in his 2nd full season with the club. The next season Joe Thornton was acquired, and the rest is history. However, Cheechoo's demise was not due to his lack of/diminishing talent but rather due to a series of knee injuries that resulted in a loss of his footspeed.
Did Thornton cause Cheechoo's numbers to reach an incredible high? Of course, but that's what truly special players are expected to do with their linemates. Cheechoo was talented in his own right and benefited from playing with one of our generations best playmakers. Similar to Tyler Bozak..
kallaer
Registered User
exactly.. Bozy is attacked constantly but JVR is regarded as an absolute stud even tho both of em are with kessel..
what has JVR done without kessel? nothing so why is bozak constantly roasted that hes only producing because of kess,
they play off eachother bozak is the defensive conscience on that line and the only reason they are able to play the high flying style they do
StringsAttached
BPD Nation!
True, Bozie is hated on because he isn't a #1 and probably will never be. He's an excellent number 3 and a good #2 though. Great on FO's, is almost at a ppg this season. Sure he isn't a defensive stud like Dats or Kopi but he's better than Kadri in that regard.
I have no complaints against Bozak.
Fair enough, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the point I was (admittedly badly) making - that you can, in fact, argue with results in favour of the process.
Kadri isn't a #1 and yet he seems to be the darling of the 'Bozak haters'.
one can argue playing on the first line as a center would make you a #1 center
but hey what kinda hotdogs you eating
but hey what kinda hotdogs you eating
HellasLEAF
'93 to Infinity
- Sep 14, 2006
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Bozak is a good player.
He's no Toews.
Or Crosby or Getzlaf or Kopitar or Stammer.
It's how he stacks up against the top C's in the league on the top teams that is the issue.
That is the level we have to get to.
I think best case scenario is he becomes something like Krejci or Bergeron and we build a team similarly to Boston.
He's no Toews.
Or Crosby or Getzlaf or Kopitar or Stammer.
It's how he stacks up against the top C's in the league on the top teams that is the issue.
That is the level we have to get to.
I think best case scenario is he becomes something like Krejci or Bergeron and we build a team similarly to Boston.
StringsAttached
BPD Nation!
He's already the same age as Krejci/Bergeron, and he's nowhere close to either of them.
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