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The taste of honey is worse than none at all
- Jul 7, 2010
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The Case for Tyler Bozak: All Tyler Bozak Discussion Here
- Thread starter HockeyThoughts
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Semantics
PUBLIC ENEMY #1
I don't know about that. While I think Kadri's a better possession player than Bozak, he is definitely not the #1 center we need. He's got the hands and vision, but his speed, strength, and shot are all well below what you want from an elite pivot. I don't think there are too many people who think swapping him and Bozak would make the team better, knowing it would unbalance the lines even further.
Personally I think most of the frustration with Bozak comes from the team's lack of success with him playing such a key role and the fact he was basically gifted that role, having ridden Kessel's coat-tails. The line has never been good defensively, and it seems like every year their offense goes up but their defense gets worse. He's sort of the poster boy for the team's awful possession play the past few years as it's always his line being hemmed in their own zone.
The Winter Soldier
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You can't claim he has been gifted playing with Kessel the past 2 seasons, with his production. Riding Kessel's coattails means, yes, better production, but bigger minus too. Ask JVR, does anyone complain about him riding Kessel's coattails for both stats?
The all familiar Poessession argument is a lark, corsi merely means you direct shots at a net. Look at the #2 line, how low their shooting % is, low production = low % chances/shots? Corsi says that direct a lot of pucks towards the net, yet score little and high GA per 60 stats.
I don't get the Bozak hate to be honest, he seems like one of the more credible/realistic/composed players on the team and in my opinion should have the C.
Diatomic
Mitch Matthewlander
Your battle against corsi and advanced stats is a losing one, even someone like Mess appreciates advanced stats and he's used to referencing +/- as his favourite stat. Cmon
The Winter Soldier
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Al14
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I don't get the hate either!
The only thing I can think of that he's not a former 1st round draft pick that had a high profile name, and career, in the CHL.
Sure, he's a 2nd line centre on our 1st line. I get that, however, he's also paid as a 2nd line centre. He wins faceoffs, he's somewhat decent as an occasional penalty killer, he's great on breakaways, he's money in the shootout, he's not bad defensively!
I just don't get the constant hate Bozak gets! I'd bet that the same guys that rag on him, would be the same ones wishing he were a Leafs player if he were a member of another team.
ULF_55
Moderator
Kessel should be the center on one line.
Bozak should be the center on one line.
Bozak and Kessel are probably 2 of their smartest players, and it helps having someone at center who thinks the game well.
The Winter Soldier
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I would reunite Lupul and Bozak.
Lupul had a career 67 points with Bozak as his center. He has struggled to produce without him since.
Seems like anyone that plays with Bozak doesn't slump.
Bozak, Lupul, JVR.
The Santa line was not as good without Clarkson, he's too valuable on the 3rd line. Put him back with Komarov and Santa.
The Winter Soldier
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Snapshot of Bozak
9 GP, 4G 6A 10 points. Even +-
Faceoff % 54.8
15th in NHL for scoring for Centers.
26th overall for all players
All this for a modest cap hit of 4.2M
What's there to critique?
Just picking off from last season.
9 GP, 4G 6A 10 points. Even +-
Faceoff % 54.8
15th in NHL for scoring for Centers.
26th overall for all players
All this for a modest cap hit of 4.2M
What's there to critique?
Just picking off from last season.
Trapper
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- Nov 21, 2013
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I don't get the hate either!
The only thing I can think of that he's not a former 1st round draft pick that had a high profile name, and career, in the CHL.
Sure, he's a 2nd line centre on our 1st line. I get that, however, he's also paid as a 2nd line centre. He wins faceoffs, he's somewhat decent as an occasional penalty killer, he's great on breakaways, he's money in the shootout, he's not bad defensively!
I just don't get the constant hate Bozak gets! I'd bet that the same guys that rag on him, would be the same ones wishing he were a Leafs player if he were a member of another team.
Contract wise I will take Bozak at 4.2 million over Weiss at 4.9 million every day of the week.
Problem is we don't have a no. 1 C and that is not Bozak's fault. For an undrafted player we have gotten everything out of him you could ask for. I would like to see him with Leivo again at some point. They showed chemistry in limited time.
ShaneFalco
Registered User
Aim higher is all. He gets knocked off the puck easily, his two-way game is overrated IMO, never had more than 50pts - he'd make a fine #2 guy
613Leafer
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Agreed with the bolded.
Offensively, he's been improving. But his possession stats are actually quite bad. And then his offensive stats, once you consider TOI and linemates are still only decent, not great.
Todd White had 70+ points playing with Kovalchuk/Kozlov and 60 points playing with Alfie/Hossa, but whenever put in other situations couldn't crack 50. Same with Radek Bonk.
So where does Bozak fall? If he had ~50-60 point wingers, would he be able to produce ~50+ points the same way guys like Krejci, Plekanec, Stastny, etc have historically done? Or would he fall down to being a ~35-40 point player while having a relatively weak defensive game?
Hopefully he can stay healthy this season and actually break the 50 point barrier. If you're a legitimate top 6 centre, you should have NO problem breaking 50 points playing with Kessel/JVR. I would say that's almost the baseline you'd hit by default. He has been on pace for higher than that though, which is obviously what we're hoping to see.
Punch Drunk Loov
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Bozak is in his prime for sure. Good on the dot, faceoffs, good shot, speed, playmaker. Would be praised on a team who has a #1C.
ShaneFalco
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ULF_55
Moderator
Bozak was on a 69 point pace last year, it is too bad about the injury.
Too bad he missed game 7, they needed a center, besides McClement, that game.
He's been getting better every year.
Too bad he missed game 7, they needed a center, besides McClement, that game.
He's been getting better every year.
The Winter Soldier
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On this team, he is our best 2 way player in the top 6. Plus he is the only center on the team over 50% in faceoffs. Again what is there to critique for a 4M cap hit? Can you think of anyone better?
ShaneFalco
Registered User
That's not saying much though.
If the team wants to compete, we can't have Bozak as our #1 C. His cap hit is fine, he's a fine player; but which contending team in the league would take Bozak over who they currently have?
We haven't had a #1 guy since Mats
ULF_55
Moderator
Yes, if they aren't tanking, they have to hope they can land a 1st. line center later in the draft or in a deal.
Pretty obvious by now who the current Leafs players are, and no they don't have that true, stud, 1st. line center unless it is Nylander.
The Winter Soldier
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That's a different topic all together, you could say we need a #1D, #1Winger, #1 Goalie also if we are going to contend for a cup.
Fact is, Bozak has become a fine player, he is doing more than his contract demands to help this team. One can argue he has been consistently our best player this year.
My view is that fans look at Bozak and then think about his deficiencies and how many points he could get without Kessel and compare it to what they think Kadri might produce. What I think is overlooked (a bit) is Kessels deficiencies and how they affect Bozak and JVR.
Regardless of Kessel's abilities and talent (I believe he's an elite player), he puts that line (or any line he is on unless he changes his style of play) at a disadvantage and JVR and Bozak have always just simply compensated for his one dimensional play. It's like when you don't have the puck you are playing 2 forwards rather than 3. I know people like to believe at times Kessel is or can be defensive, but, I don't agree at all. Of course, the line can still be a huge offensive threat but I don't think opposition lines fear the Kessel line because they are an offensive threat but probably relish playing against a soft line that lacks one back checker and know if they cut off the rush game they are a very easy line to play against; opposing coaches can put their most tenacious checking line up against them and they probably look forward to the challenge.
Since, basically, forever, or since Bozak and Kessel have pretty much ALWAYS been together, I think it's hard to really fairly say or compare Bozak and Kadri or Bozak and any centre until we see what happens when Kessel is with some other forwards for enough time that we can see what happens and also we can see how Bozak does with other players as well.
I saw Kessel do some things with Kadri (some passes) that I don't think he makes with Bozak. I saw Bozak and JVR (when without Kessel and with Clarkson) starting to think about playing differently as well. Albeit only one game. Geez, a little bit easier getting out of your own zone when there are 3 forwards actually doing something to try to get control back.
But, just saying, Kessel and Bozak have been together for so long that it's UNBELIEVABLE to me, that RC hasn't changed it up. I'm actually suspicious that it was a directive from above, and don't know if it was a direct sort of directive or more subtle as in, (ah, these are your players) so, maybe you can TRY some different combinations.
Regardless of Kessel's abilities and talent (I believe he's an elite player), he puts that line (or any line he is on unless he changes his style of play) at a disadvantage and JVR and Bozak have always just simply compensated for his one dimensional play. It's like when you don't have the puck you are playing 2 forwards rather than 3. I know people like to believe at times Kessel is or can be defensive, but, I don't agree at all. Of course, the line can still be a huge offensive threat but I don't think opposition lines fear the Kessel line because they are an offensive threat but probably relish playing against a soft line that lacks one back checker and know if they cut off the rush game they are a very easy line to play against; opposing coaches can put their most tenacious checking line up against them and they probably look forward to the challenge.
Since, basically, forever, or since Bozak and Kessel have pretty much ALWAYS been together, I think it's hard to really fairly say or compare Bozak and Kadri or Bozak and any centre until we see what happens when Kessel is with some other forwards for enough time that we can see what happens and also we can see how Bozak does with other players as well.
I saw Kessel do some things with Kadri (some passes) that I don't think he makes with Bozak. I saw Bozak and JVR (when without Kessel and with Clarkson) starting to think about playing differently as well. Albeit only one game. Geez, a little bit easier getting out of your own zone when there are 3 forwards actually doing something to try to get control back.
But, just saying, Kessel and Bozak have been together for so long that it's UNBELIEVABLE to me, that RC hasn't changed it up. I'm actually suspicious that it was a directive from above, and don't know if it was a direct sort of directive or more subtle as in, (ah, these are your players) so, maybe you can TRY some different combinations.
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