Post-Game Talk: The biggest game of the McDrai era

[Stoneman89]

Epic comeback, and nice to see a couple guys finally contribute on the scoreboard.

- one thing I am noticing about Campbell is that he is very strong with his legs. His ablility to hug the ice keeping the pad down worked to perfection last night, as the Kings continued to hammer away at the puck relentlessly, hoping it would squeeze in. Seems to be a big part of their game plan. And it's one of the things that Stewy doesn't seem to be as good at, as indicated by the multiple scramble goals scored on him so far. Campbells rebound control is still not the best, but his ability to control the bottom of the net means he should be a serious candidate to start the next game. We'll see.

- continuing with the pathetic and biased refereeing. How the hell was the Kempe hit on Bouch in OT not a 5 minute major and game expulsion? I'm just not sure what you have to do to get one of those anymore. That looked like a textbook case.

 

[CupofOil]

Nurse needs to be way better as well.

Nurse, Nuge, Hyman, Kane take a step its over.

Nurse is an interesting case (as he always is) because I thought he played his best hockey all season throughout most of the first 3 games then he overcommitted on the Kings GWG and carried that into Game 4 with one of his worst performances of the year in the first half of the game.

I find it interesting because it seems like the Oilers go as Nurse goes in a way. The Oilers controlled a good portion of the first 3 games as Nurse did controlling his game then chaos ensued in Game 4 as Nurse's game turned chaotic. If he simplifies again, the Oilers have a good chance of winning this series but who knows with him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Actually he would have been just fine on the Arviddson play if he just took the man. Just staple the player to the boards...instead he tried to play the puck and got hung out to dry.

In terms of Ceci...the player in that pairing thats causing most of the issues is Nurse and his wacky decision making.

I dont think that this is a systems issue...I think what we are seeing is just individual players making poor decisions under pressure.
Desharnais I can understand. Nurse has no excuse.

He was too slow to touch Arviddson as the spin moved the player unexpectedly further away. It was a brilliant zone entry, and at speed, and Desharnais can't react to it. Its the trouble with pinching and getting beat clean. Desharnais was barely in position to haul him down but thought better of it due to his penalties already in the series.

Don't agree at all with Ceci. He's been substandard all season. There hasn't been a segment of season where Ceci has been good. Nurse has had good and bad stretches but mostly good in the series. Ceci isn't doing a lot on the pairing and Ceci isn't working well in any pairing. Oilers will need to improve on him. Ceci is again looking like the D that was imminently available when we got him.

 

[Fourier]

Realistically LA got 3 penalties that were as weak as the type the board has been complaining about in the series. But on the other side people feeling like Kempe ought to have had a double minor instead of a minor on the board hit. Still, its OT (afairc) and not many majors or doubles are called there.

My take is the NHL responded somewhat with all the notices that the Oilers were getting jobbed in the series. I expect game 5 to be the same with Oilers getting some better treatment.

Kinda fits with my theory that the NHL would want the Oilers to advance, but that they were helping to try to make it a longer series as more games is more revenue.

Officiating was Even, I thought the Oilers got the edge from it, and the game evenly played.

For the record, I don't believe that the NHL explicitly targets certain teams that they want to win. I do think that there are real biases that may well be subconscious in some part and circumstantial in other parts. My sense is that the NHL wants things to be as close as possible and that game management is often designed to even out teams advantage over their opposition.

That said in the past there were definitely "favoured teams" by the refs. Montreal was notorious in this regard as were Boston and Detroit.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

Nurse is an interesting case (as he always is) because I thought he played his best hockey all season throughout most of the first 3 games then he overcommitted on the Kings GWG and carried that into Game 4 with one of his worst performances of the year in the first half of the game.

I find it interesting because it seems like the Oilers go as Nurse goes in a way. The Oilers controlled a good portion of the first 3 games as Nurse did controlling his game then chaos ensued in Game 4 as Nurse's game turned chaotic. If he simplifies again, the Oilers have a good chance of winning this series but who knows with him.

This is why I can never commit to Nurse being a top pairing dman. At his top, he is a minute munching, physical, athletically gifted #2 but then he drops off a cliff every ~5 games. I was hoping he broke out of this w/ Ek here, but came back in a big way l ast night.

If every 5-8 games you play like a #6, I just cant fully commit to him as first paring guy. I still think hes highly valuable to the team and we really need him frankly, but these drop-offs are too often.

 

[guymez]

He was too slow to touch Arviddson as the spin moved the player unexpectedly further away. It was a brilliant zone entry, and at speed, and Desharnais can't react to it. Its the trouble with pinching and getting beat clean. Desharnais was barely in position to haul him down but thought better of it due to his penalties already in the series.

Don't agree at all with Ceci. He's been substandard all season. There hasn't been a segment of season where Ceci has been good. Nurse has had good and bad stretches but mostly good in the series. Ceci isn't doing a lot on the pairing and Ceci isn't working well in any pairing. Oilers will need to improve on him. Ceci is again looking like the D that was imminently available when we got him.

I have watched the Arvidsson play a few times. Desharnais was a bit late with his reaction but he was still there in time to take the man. Especially with his big frame. Just get in the way.

Ceci has been fine in the playoffs. Not perfect but good enough.
Nurse on the other hand...I have no idea WTF he is thinking most of the time.
Poor read after poor read and his decisions with the puck arent much better.

His salary suggests that he should be a go to player...defensively and offensively.
He just isnt that player.

 

[oXo Cube]

VD had a good run considering his talent level but the guy was a 7th round pick for a reason. The Kings have very clearly identified him as a liability(They're right) and you cannot afford to have exploitable pieces like that in a tight playoff series.

Put Shore in, run 12-6 and give Broberg a shot. At least he has a non-zero chance of gaining back some of what he might cost you.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Epic comeback, and nice to see a couple guys finally contribute on the scoreboard.

- one thing I am noticing about Campbell is that he is very strong with his legs. His ablility to hug the ice keeping the pad down worked to perfection last night, as the Kings continued to hammer away at the puck relentlessly, hoping it would squeeze in. Seems to be a big part of their game plan. And it's one of the things that Stewy doesn't seem to be as good at, as indicated by the multiple scramble goals scored on him so far. Campbells rebound control is still not the best, but his ability to control the bottom of the net means he should be a serious candidate to start the next game. We'll see.

- continuing with the pathetic and biased refereeing. How the hell was the Kempe hit on Bouch in OT not a 5 minute major and game expulsion? I'm just not sure what you have to do to get one of those anymore. That looked like a textbook case.

It’s because Bouchard didn’t stay down.

If he pulls an Arvidsson and lays down and cries some crocodile tears in the corner it’s probably a major.

 

[Zguy370]

Yep. Its indisputable that first round series are going longer on average than historically and one has to understand that makes up a bulk of the playoff revenue. Being that there are the most series in play. So much are first rounds important for gate and add revenue as they make up more than half ot the entire playoff games. Which people probably don't realize off the bat. The NHL gets potentially 56 games in first round if series go distance. NHL is going to be getting over 50 games in first round the way its shaking out. Of course the minimum amount of first games would be 32 so its an enormous difference for the NHL influencing series to go longer.

Due to less teams advancing 2nd round involves anywhere between 16-28 games. Conference finals involve only 8-14 games.

So that prolonging first round is very important to NHL.

Its not just happening here. Dallas was down 2-1 in games and got the NHL management in game 4 to tie series. Any Wild fan would agree with that. The game was called suddenly one sided. Earlier in the series the Wild were getting favor. The NHL switched up.

Well put from the business aspect POV, and I've been watching the Dal/Min series, definitely another head scratcher series, but they have to do what they have to do $$$

 

[CupofOil]

This is why I can never commit to Nurse being a top pairing dman. At his top, he is a minute munching, physical, athletically gifted #2 but then he drops off a cliff every ~5 games. I was hoping he broke out of this w/ Ek here, but came back in a big way l ast night.

If every 5-8 games you play like a #6, I just cant fully commit to him as first paring guy. I still think hes highly valuable to the team and we really need him frankly, but these drop-offs are too often.

He's definitely a top pairing Dman. The problem is that he's not a true #1 because he's not good enough to carry a much lesser partner. It's been a mix of Benning, Bear, Barrie, Bouchard (lots of B's haha) and mostly Ceci the last few years. He had Larsson as his partner for a time during the previous regime but to my recollection, Nurse has never had more than a 2nd pairing Dman complimenting him and he overcompensates as a result.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Nurse is an interesting case (as he always is) because I thought he played his best hockey all season throughout most of the first 3 games then he overcommitted on the Kings GWG and carried that into Game 4 with one of his worst performances of the year in the first half of the game.

I find it interesting because it seems like the Oilers go as Nurse goes in a way. The Oilers controlled a good portion of the first 3 games as Nurse did controlling his game then chaos ensued in Game 4 as Nurse's game turned chaotic. If he simplifies again, the Oilers have a good chance of winning this series but who knows with him.

Nurse was on for 2 of the goals in first period because he was paired with Desharnais who was drowning all over the ice. On all goals easy to point out Desharnais being exploited and giving up the scoring chances. Had much less to do with Nurse. There is no way Desharnais should have been seeing Kings topsix. Stupid to do that. The Kings schooled Desharnais and have been working him a lot in series.

This also the first game that has featured both Fiala and Vilardi which was posing problems for the Oilers. Those two work the puck differently in own zone then what the Oilers were seeing in the series. Fiala made an impact in first game. Fiala almost setup a goal in first minute of play. Not sure if the Oiler were at all taken by surprise that Fiala was back but a Nurse-Desharnais pairing in game 4 that they started with was asinine.

 

[Stoneman89]

Nurse was on for 2 of the goals in first period because he was paired with Desharnais who was drowning all over the ice. On all goals easy to point out Desharnais being exploited and giving up the scoring chances. Had much less to do with Nurse. There is no way Desharnais should have been seeing Kings topsix. Stupid to do that. The Kings schooled Desharnais and have been working him a lot in series.

This also the first game that has featured both Fiala and Vilardi which was posing problems for the Oilers. Those two work the puck differently in own zone then what the Oilers were seeing in the series. Fiala made an impact in first game. Fiala almost setup a goal in first minute of play. Not sure if the Oiler were at all taken by surprise that Fiala was back but a Nurse-Desharnais pairing in game 4 that they started with was asinine.

The Kings with last change might have had something to do with some of the scenarios. For the record, I'd like to see Broberg take more of Desharnais minutes from here on in. Maybe use VD in some penalty situations as he seems to do much better on those, if they continue to go with an 11-7.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I have watched the Arvidsson play a few times. Desharnais was a bit late with his reaction but he was still there in time to take the man. Especially with his big frame. Just get in the way.

Ceci has been fine in the playoffs. Not perfect but good enough.
Nurse on the other hand...I have no idea WTF he is thinking most of the time.
Poor read after poor read and his decisions with the puck arent much better.

His salary suggests that he should be a go to player...defensively and offensively.
He just isnt that player.

Nurse was our best D in first 3 games. Better than even Ekholm. Several posters and telecasts even mentioning specifically how good Nurse was playing. Booch too, at least offensively. Ekholm is showing a bit of fatigue. Still playing the best of the D imo, but not what we were seeing down the stretch.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Realistically LA got 3 penalties that were as weak as the type the board has been complaining about in the series. But on the other side people feeling like Kempe ought to have had a double minor instead of a minor on the board hit. Still, its OT (afairc) and not many majors or doubles are called there.

My take is the NHL responded somewhat with all the notices that the Oilers were getting jobbed in the series. I expect game 5 to be the same with Oilers getting some better treatment.

Kinda fits with my theory that the NHL would want the Oilers to advance, but that they were helping to try to make it a longer series as more games is more revenue.

Officiating was Even, I thought the Oilers got the edge from it, and the game evenly played.

Wait, you think the kempe board on bouchard was a weak call?

 

[CupofOil]

Nurse was on for 2 of the goals in first period because he was paired with Desharnais who was drowning all over the ice. On all goals easy to point out Desharnais being exploited and giving up the scoring chances. Had much less to do with Nurse. There is no way Desharnais should have been seeing Kings topsix. Stupid to do that. The Kings schooled Desharnais and have been working him a lot in series.

This also the first game that has featured both Fiala and Vilardi which was posing problems for the Oilers. Those two work the puck differently in own zone then what the Oilers were seeing in the series. Fiala made an impact in first game. Fiala almost setup a goal in first minute of play. Not sure if the Oiler were at all taken by surprise that Fiala was back but a Nurse-Desharnais pairing in game 4 that they started with was asinine.

Nurse was beaten on the Vilardi goal in which Yamamoto just gave up on the backcheck for some reason then he failed to clear the zone multiple times on the Kopitar goal. I thought he earned that -2 (sorry, -1 as the Kopitar goal was on the PP). Desharnais was overwhelmed for sure though.

This goes back to my point that Nurse has been given subpar D partners pretty much his entire tenure here being tasked to carry tough minute top pairings playing some of the hardest minutes in the league. He's sort of like the Draisaitl of Dmen who has been saddled with the weakest wingers while McDavid mostly got the better ones.
Drai can handle that role, easier for a forward, Nurse struggles with it which I put a lot of blame for that on the GM/coaches. Ceci has been his best D partner his entire time here, that says a lot.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

VD had a good run considering his talent level but the guy was a 7th round pick for a reason. The Kings have very clearly identified him as a liability(They're right) and you cannot afford to have exploitable pieces like that in a tight playoff series.

Put Shore in, run 12-6 and give Broberg a shot. At least he has a non-zero chance of gaining back some of what he might cost you.

Agree. His foot speed is becoming a glaring issue. He might be able to be re-inserted against a slower/more physical opponent, but it’s not working right now.

As for Broberg, the good part about him is he’s a better puck mover and a significantly better skater. It’s also not like he’s a small man either (6’3” 200 lbs) so he still can play a physical role.

Give VD a break, have him work on positioning to minimize the opportunities for him to get caught out.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

He's definitely a top pairing Dman. The problem is that he's not a true #1 because he's not good enough to carry a much lesser partner. It's been a mix of Benning, Bear, Barrie, Bouchard (lots of B's haha) and mostly Ceci the last few years. He had Larsson as his partner for a time during the previous regime but to my recollection, Nurse has never had more than a 2nd pairing Dman complimenting him and he overcompensates as a result.

I agree with all your points except that he is a top pairing dman. I agree, he hasnt been put in the best situations and hes been hamstringed by bad partners but I just have to think to be a true top pairing dman, you cant have games like this. You cant just drop off the cliff.

Again, I like him as player. I think he can play on the top pair if the conditions are right, but he is not a slam dunk top pairing dman.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

This is why I can never commit to Nurse being a top pairing dman. At his top, he is a minute munching, physical, athletically gifted #2 but then he drops off a cliff every ~5 games. I was hoping he broke out of this w/ Ek here, but came back in a big way l ast night.

If every 5-8 games you play like a #6, I just cant fully commit to him as first paring guy. I still think hes highly valuable to the team and we really need him frankly, but these drop-offs are too often.

So you don’t think doughty is a number 1 D then also

Doughty was worse last night than any game by nurse so far

 

[guymez]

Nurse was our best D in first 3 games. Better than even Ekholm. Several posters and telecasts even mentioning specifically how good Nurse was playing. Booch too, at least offensively. Ekholm is showing a bit of fatigue. Still playing the best of the D imo, but not what we were seeing down the stretch.

Well...we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I should add ...there have been many times when I have disagreed with a commentator.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Wait, you think the kempe board on bouchard was a weak call?

Nah. I thought Kings had 3 other penalties in game. my bad. I was one off. Absolutely the Kempe penalty has to be called. The question is whether its a single or double minor. Some saying major but the NHL rarely calling majors in OT.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

#Whitney for Commish

 

[CupofOil]

I agree with all your points except that he is a top pairing dman. I agree, he hasnt been put in the best situations and hes been hamstringed by bad partners but I just have to think to be a true top pairing dman, you cant have games like this. You cant just drop off the cliff.

Again, I like him as player. I think he can play on the top pair if the conditions are right, but he is not a slam dunk top pairing dman.

Nurse is a #2 at worst. Guy plays the tough minutes in the league annually and comes out majorly on the + column every year. I usually don't consider +/- the end all be all but when it's a long term pattern, it's notable. Yes he's mistake prone but the team outscores significantly when he's on the ice pretty much his whole career.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Nah. I thought Kings had 3 other penalties in game. my bad. I was one off. Absolutely the Kempe penalty has to be called. The question is whether its a single or double minor. Some saying major but the NHL rarely calling majors in OT.

Kempe was the only penalty in the game I thought was a good one, other 4 were relatively weak IMO

 

[Forgot About Drai]

So you don’t think doughty is a number 1 D then also

Doughty was worse last night than any game by nurse so far

There is also massive difference between every ~5 games and once or twice a season.

But yeah mostly agree, Doughty isnt the player he once was.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Nurse is a #2 at worst. Guy plays the tough minutes in the league annually and comes out majorly on the + column every year. I usually don't consider +/- the end all be all but when it's a long term pattern, it's notable. Yes he's mistake prone but the team outscores significantly when he's on the ice pretty much his whole career.

Oiler fans think other teams top pairing D never make mistakes.

Doughty was worse than anything nurse has done last night