The better career: Crosby or Ovechkin?

[Nathaniel]

Crosby's peak as a goal scorer isn't very high. He led the league twice, but overall has just 3 40+ goal seasons.

His peak as a playmaker isn't really all that legendary too. Even if we only count the players from his prime era, Thornton, Henrik Sedin and Backstrom are definitely more accomplished playmakers, with several more arguable candidates.

Crosby's strength is he's a very well-rounded offensive player who has aged very well (which has been helped by the league-wide scoring increase), but he has never been the best goal scorer nor playmaker in the world, which, in my opinion, disqualifies him from being 'all time elite' at each just based on his raw totals (I hope you don't consider Ron Francis a top 3 playmaker of all time).

In fact, if we multiply Ovechkin's career lead over Crosby in goals (272) by the average amount of assists per goal (1.67), we'll get 454, which is far more than Crosby's lead over Ovechkin in assists (337), which could be interpreted as Ovechkin's lead over Crosby in goals has been more significant than Crosby's lead over Ovechkin in goals.

In short, Ovechkin's goal scoring is arguably the best of all time, while Crosby's goal scoring and playmaking are both arguably top 5 of post-lockout era. Analysis like 'well, their goal-scoring is a wash, so Crosby scoring more assists is a decider' is really bad-faith.

Crosby has also played 150 less games than ovechkin. N crosby was a much better playmaker than Backstrom lol

 

[wetcoast]

No. It isn’t.

It’s just a thing a penguins fan just made up.

Everyone must be a Penguins fan though then right?

Between the results of this poll and the "who would you draft with Crosby, Ovi, Mcdavid" or maybe hockey fans know more than goal scoring obsessed fanbois?

 

[wetcoast]

To be honest, the degree of difficulty in winning a Rocket is arguably higher than a 5+ Hart finish. Every forward is competing for the Rocket, and Ovi is consistently the only one who wins

Imagine how much better Ovi would look if he abandoned his 2 way team first play and was sued more than any other forward on the PP, in EN situations and favorable offensive zone starts eh?

. Crosby meanwhile has 10 spots he can occupy for a hart nomination. Meanwhile, after the fourth place, Hart nominations 5-10 are usually decided by a few votes, the difference between being 10th or not in Hart nominations might literally be one fifth place vote. Hart is very top heavy with voting.

Just take top 3 Hart and Art Ross finishes and Crosby, even with his injury history. comes out on top.

Hart top 3

Ovi 5
Crosby 7

Art Ross top 3
Ovi 5
Crosby 8

That in large part is why he is winning this poll and is considered the better of these 2 players even if Ovechkin is solidly the second best player from his generation.

 

[SkinsFan09]

No. It isn’t.

It’s just a thing a penguins fan just made up.

It's not that insulting to say the second best player of a two decade era played for your team. And it's not even a Charles Barkley situation either.

 

[I am not exposed]

Team Canada is Indeed a juggernaut, but the most effective player on this team was Crosby

Who was better than him in 2010 and 2014?

Crosby was poor in 2010. It was well reported at the time. He scored the golden goal and it seems some have forgotten his poor overall tournament.

So basically most of team Canada was better than Crosby in 2010.

 

[TeeTee]

Right: Ovechkin has been Brett Hull for like 10 years now. A truly great player, but not among the absolute greatest for at least half his career. The earlier years were a different story, but they're long gone and have been for quite some time. Crosby has been and remains a play driver. Ovechkin has been nothing of the sort for a long time.

This right here. It really makes me wonder if people are watching him play or simply looking at the box score each morning.

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby was poor in 2010. It was well reported at the time. He scored the golden goal and it seems some have forgotten his poor overall tournament.

So basically most of team Canada was better than Crosby in 2010.

Not that a single tournament is going to matter overall but......

So of the 21 Skaters (not counting PK as he only played in one game) there were 10 players definitely better than Crosby on Team Canada?

 

[wetcoast]

This right here. It really makes me wonder if people are watching him play or simply looking at the box score each morning.

In what way?

Just boxscore watching would give a better impression for Ovechkin, especially since his peak than watching every game and evaluating it by the eye test since the end of his peak, a few seasons aside.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Oh God not this again. Where's my asprin?

 

[qcal1427]

Just take top 3 Hart and Art Ross finishes and Crosby, even with his injury history. comes out on top.

Hart top 3

Ovi 5
Crosby 7

Art Ross top 3
Ovi 5
Crosby 8

That in large part is why he is winning this poll and is considered the better of these 2 players even if Ovechkin is solidly the second best player from his generation.

If you add in runner-ups and top-5 finishes then surely you should also count Rockets and President's Trophies and Division titles?

 

[wetcoast]

If you add in runner-ups and top-5 finishes then surely you should also count Rockets and President's Trophies and Division titles?

My response was for some misguided point of winning the rocket being harder but sure I look at everything, peak, prime, consistency, highs, lows, 2 way play the whole enchilada and the bottom line is that

Crosby has 65 more points in 138 less games.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Or being -12 on a team with a +111 and that's with extremely generous usage so no there isn't any case there.

Interestingly they were both minuses that year on teams that were +69 and +111 respectively. That's not a year I would personally "fight" for Ovechkin being better - he was actually quite one-dimensional that season. Others love the goal scoring rate though and might - I'll leave that to them in this thread though I would go Crosby.

(I put fight in quotation marks because I'm not getting in a huff over this played out debate altogether)

 

[daver]

Crosby was poor in 2010. It was well reported at the time. He scored the golden goal and it seems some have forgotten his poor overall tournament.

So basically most of team Canada was better than Crosby in 2010.

He finished T2 in scoring on Team Canada and had more goals than Toews which apparently matters to OV fans. He wasn't poor; he simply wasn't as good as was expected while Toews exceeded expectations. At the end of the day his team won and he scored one of the biggest goals in hockey history.

 

[The90]

I actually enjoy arguing back-and-forth with the same penguins fans over the last 20 years. Obviously my username is very generic, but there’s a few penguins fans that I’ll remember and usually look to read what they have to say on this topic. End of the day both players are gonna be top 10 players of all time.

All penguins fans must be why the vote is a landslide for Crosby lol

 

[Nathaniel]

Crosby besides having the better nhl career. More points, more cups. Has the far better internationsl career as does Malkin. Crosby has led the world championships in scoring, the world cup in scoring. Was tied for 2nd in 4 nations scoring. Ovechkin has 0 international scoring titles or mvps

 

[paracord]

Maybe I went overboard, I just think Ovi’s nine Rockets will be remembered better than Crosby’s Hart finishes. Casual fans won’t dig into the Hart nominations, but they will see the nine Rockets.

Casual fans don't even know what the "Rocket Richard" trophy is. They remember cups, MAYBE.

And no one is downplaying Ovi's Rockets who know what they are talking about. He just is skewed far more toward goal scoring. He led the league in points once, even with 9 rockets. Phil Esposito won 6 goal scoring titles in a row, 5 of those he won the Ross too. Bobby Hull won 7 goal scoring titles, 3 times the Ross as well.

You guys are acting like we are saying Ovi is chopped liver or something. No way. But comparing him to Crosby is comparing a player that is more one dimensional to one that is one of the greatest all around players of all time.

If you wanted to say Ovi is the greatest one dimensional player of all time, I think i'd agree with you! I'd give him the nod over Mike Bossy, but it's close. But he's not going to compare to the greatest duel threats of all time like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid, Jagr, Orr, etc.

 

[K Fleur]

Crosby only leading the league in assists one season feels like a fun trivia answer more than anything. Of you’ve been paying any attention the last 20 years you’d have seen an amazing playmaker and playmaking isn’t something that can be measured only by a player’s assist count.

Honestly I think the balance in Crosby’s game is one of many reasons why he’s had more success in the playoffs than Ovechkin.

 

[paracord]

Crosby only leading the league in assists one season feels like a fun trivia answer more than anything. Of you’ve been paying any attention the last 20 years you’d have seen an amazing playmaker and playmaking isn’t something that can be measured only by a player’s assist count.

Honestly I think the balance in Crosby’s game is one of many reasons why he’s had more success in the playoffs than Ovechkin.

If Ovi isn't scoring goals, his ability to affect the game is much less than Crosby's. If Crosby isn't scoring goals, he might have 4 assists and a 60% faceoff rate. This is why he has 65 more points in 138 less games.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Matsun]

Ovechkin is going to go down as a more iconic and legendary player than Crosby. Thats usually how it goes with the spectacular goalscoring wingers over the well rounded offensive threats but I'm not sure it means OV had a better career.

 

[paracord]

Ovechkin is going to go down as a more iconic and legendary player than Crosby. Thats usually how it goes with the spectacular goalscoring wingers over the well rounded offensive threats.

I honestly don't see how. Crosby was the "face of the league" for most of their careers. He's widely regarded as the better player. I would bet that just from the marketing crap we've seen over the past 20 years, more people know who Crosby is.

Just being from Canada vs. Russia and scoring the "Golden Goal" cements Crosby's iconography in the world's Mecca of hockey.

I mean, how many times do we hear those Canadians talking about Paul Henderson!? Would you have ever heard his name other than from his icon status in a couple tournaments in the 1970s?

 

[dr robbie]

Oh God not this again. Where's my asprin?

I literally just opened this thread thinking to myself "please don't just be the same handful of people making the same tired arguments"

I knew better. We all knew better.

 

[TeeTee]

In what way?

Just boxscore watching would give a better impression for Ovechkin, especially since his peak than watching every game and evaluating it by the eye test since the end of his peak, a few seasons aside.

We are in agreement with each other.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Maybe I went overboard, I just think Ovi’s nine Rockets will be remembered better than Crosby’s Hart finishes. Casual fans won’t dig into the Hart nominations, but they will see the nine Rockets.

You really believe anyone gives a look at who has the most individual hardware? I can tell you for a fact that casuals 100% don’t. Most casual fans listen to mainstream media and hear analysts or hardcore hockey fans talk about who were the all time greats.

Hell, the other night was the first time I even saw a replay of Gretzkys record breaking goal.

When Gretzky is brought up, it’s usually because he was the best ever and scored the most amount of points by anyone ever and by a wide ass margin.

My first interaction of hearing about Gretzky wasn’t because of his goal total. People act like casuals are sitting around sprouting off Rocket totals as if those types care.

 

[Caps8112]

All penguins fans must be why the vote is a landslide for Crosby lol

I wasnt referring to the polls. Was talking about the usual suspects on both sides of the debate. A lot of us having been talking about it since their rookie years.

 

[pi314]

The point of the game is to win.

It’s obvious which one of these guys has done that.