The better career: Crosby or Ovechkin?

[Fataldogg]

Wait until the playoffs are over. If the Capitals were to win another Cup under Ovechkin and he was able to win another Conn Smythe, I think the scale would tip heavily in Ovechkin's favor.

Right now, not considering what could happen this post season, I have the same respect and admiration of them both. They both defined my time as a fan of the sport. The memories will last a life time. Consider yourself lucky to have seen these two at their best. I like to see them as fairly equal.

 

[pi314]

Wait until the playoffs are over. If the Capitals were to win another Cup under Ovechkin and he was able to win another Conn Smythe, I think the scale would tip heavily in Ovechkin's favor.

Right now, not considering what could happen this post season, I have the same respect and admiration of them both. They both defined my time as a fan of the sport. The memories will last a life time. Consider yourself lucky to have seen these two at their best. I like to see them as fairly equal.

Bet you now your what if scenario never happens.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

More for my curiosity than to try to argue based off of it but is there somewhere we can see their career primary/secondary assist numbers? I’ve looked (not very hard) but haven’t been able to find it

 

[the_fan]

I really don’t understand how Crosby is winning this poll. Similar career point totals, yes Crosby has more cups, but Ovi has one too, and when Ovi passes Gretzky, he’s officially gonna be the greatest goal scorer of all time.

He’s gonna hold the record of something that’s the hardest and most valuable thing to do in hockey which is score goals. What can Crosby say he’s the best ever at? He’s a great player, one of the best of all time, but he’s not gonna hold a all time record of anything.

Ovi without a doubt had a better career when he breaks the record. Just 6 away now

 

[TMLegend]

Ovechkin. Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in the sport and he's undisputably the greatest of all time at it.

Crosby has been the better player for the majority of their careers, but I don't think he's had the better individual career and I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell his legacy matches Ovechkins. I don't think he'll be remembered as fondly as Ovechkin 20-30 years from now.

 

[Nathaniel]

I really don’t understand how Crosby is winning this poll. Similar career point totals, yes Crosby has more cups, but Ovi has one too, and when Ovi passes Gretzky, he’s officially gonna be the greatest goal scorer of all time.

He’s gonna hold the record of something that’s the hardest and most valuable thing to do in hockey which is score goals. What can Crosby say he’s the best ever at? He’s a great player, one of the best of all time, but he’s not gonna hold a all time record of anything.

Ovi without a doubt had a better career when he breaks the record. Just 6 away now

20 ppg season. Most all time

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You're the one fabricating that I'm saying "goals are everything". Stop being disingenuous, it's tiring.

Overall production was in Ovechkin's favor here. He had a higher performance to #10, and much closer to #1. So from an overall points perspective, Ovi's season was more Hart-worthy.

And yes, I do value goals more - and I know you don't. But 100% of players, coaches, GM's are choosing the 80 goal, 0 assist guy than the 0 goal, 80 assist guy - this is without even getting into the statistical fact that goals are more valuable than assists (which I don't want to debate as I already know you will ignore the numbers and don't buy into it).

So yes - Ovechkin was a better overall point producer in 2015 than in Crosby's season, and the biggest difference maker is that Ovechkin had one of the best goalscoring seasons of this era there and was completely dominant in that area.

You can talk about carrying a line - how about Ovechkin carrying that Capitals team in 2015? He scored 53 goals and #2 on his team had 21 LOL.

You can talk about taking on matchups to create depth - but do you not think that every team was focussing 100% of their best players to stop Ovi in 2015? As I said, he was by FAR the best goal scorer in the world. Of course he was also doing the exact same thing lol.

For a statistical fact, the stats actually suggest that primary assists are more valuable than goals. There is a stronger correlation between 5v5 individual primary assist rate and 5v5 on-ice goal rate than there is for 5v5 individual goal rate.

Which makes sense logically too, because the positive contributions that leads to an assist don't always show up directly on the score sheet.

 

[the_fan]

20 ppg season. Most all time

That’s a great accomplishment, but it’s not on par with holding the all time record for goals

 

[authentic]

I really don’t understand how Crosby is winning this poll. Similar career point totals, yes Crosby has more cups, but Ovi has one too, and when Ovi passes Gretzky, he’s officially gonna be the greatest goal scorer of all time.

He’s gonna hold the record of something that’s the hardest and most valuable thing to do in hockey which is score goals. What can Crosby say he’s the best ever at? He’s a great player, one of the best of all time, but he’s not gonna hold a all time record of anything.

Ovi without a doubt had a better career when he breaks the record. Just 6 away now

Crosby and Ovechkin started their career at the same time and Crosby has been better more often while both were equal at their best in Ovechkin’s case, it’s really not any more complicated than that.

If you look at their production in the playoffs, it’s almost impossible to say Ovechkin has been a better player. Also as far as the defensive conversation goes, both had similar goals against numbers but Ovechkin has the drastically better goaltending for the most part.

Not sure all that emphasis should be placed on goal scoring alone when Crosby impacts the game more all over the ice, and has for the better part of the last decade and a half.

 

[the_fan]

Crosby and Ovechkin started their career at the same time and Crosby has been better more often while both were equal at their best in Ovechkin’s case, it’s really not any more complicated than that.

If Ovi didn’t break the all time goal record, it’s Crosby without a doubt, but when Ovi becomes the leading goal scorer of all time, I think that tilts it Ovi’s way. That’s a legitimate accomplishment to which you can say Ovi had a better career than Crosby.

I don’t know why everyone just ignores the fact that Ovi is gonna be the leading goal scorer of all time like that’s nothing. He’s gonna be remembered more because of it than Crosby. I bet you people are gonna talk about Ovi breaking that record more than any of Crosby’s accomplishments.

 

[authentic]

If Ovi didn’t break the all time goal record, it’s Crosby without a doubt, but when Ovi becomes the leading goal scorer of all time, I think that tilts it Ovi’s way. That’s a legitimate accomplishment to which you can say Ovi had a better career than Crosby.

I don’t know why everyone just ignores the fact that Ovi is gonna be the leading goal scorer of all time like that’s nothing. He’s gonna be remembered more because of it than Crosby. I bet you people are gonna talk about Ovi breaking that record more than any of Crosby’s accomplishments.

Calling Crosby the better all-time player is far from ignoring Ovechkin being the best goal scorer of all-time. Think of it in the sense that there are many players who are ranked higher than Brett Hull who have considerably less goals. Just because Ovechkin is the best goal scorer of all-time (which he has been for quite some time now and this record is just icing on the cake) it doesn’t make him better than a player who’s… a better player.

 

[authentic]

At the same time I can see the case for Ovechkin (the durability factor plays heavily into it though I think), I just don’t agree it’s an automatic thing just because he broke the goal scoring record.

 

[TheLegend27]

Crosby and Ovechkin started their career at the same time and Crosby has been better more often while both were equal at their best in Ovechkin’s case, it’s really not any more complicated than that.

If you look at their production in the playoffs, it’s almost impossible to say Ovechkin has been a better player. Also as far as the defensive conversation goes, both had similar goals against numbers but Ovechkin has the drastically better goaltending for the most part.

Not sure all that emphasis should be placed on goal scoring alone when Crosby impacts the game more all over the ice, and has for the better part of the last decade and a half.

I believe the vast majority view Crosby as the best player. The premise of the poll is who has had the better career, and you could argue Ovi’s case due to legacy(greatest goal scorer), better raw seasons(because of Crosby’s injuries), and individual hardware including 14 major individual awards(Calder, Rocket, Hart, Art Ross). It depends what you value, slightly better player, team success and per game stats, or individual awards, durability, and being the best goalscoror ever etc.

 

[the_fan]

Calling Crosby the better all-time player is far from ignoring Ovechkin being the best goal scorer of all-time. Think of it in the sense that there are many players who are ranked higher than Brett Hull who have considerably less goals. Just because Ovechkin is the best goal scorer of all-time (which he has been for quite some time now and this record is just icing on the cake) it doesn’t make him better than a player who’s… a better player.

Yes but the debate is who had the better career and not necessarily who the better player is. If we comparing Crosby and Ovi as far as pure talent, and just overall better player, it’s Crosby, but again, when Ovi becomes the leading goal scorer of all time, I for one giving him the edge as far as better career

 

[authentic]

Yes but the debate is who had the better career and not necessarily who the better player is. If we comparing Crosby and Ovi as far as pure talent, and just over all better player, it’s Crosby, but again, when Ovi becomes the leading goal scorer of all time, I for one giving him the edge as far as better career

Fair enough

 

[Nathaniel]

That’s a great accomplishment, but it’s not on par with holding the all time record for goals

Probably more difficult

 

[paracord]

If Ovi didn’t break the all time goal record, it’s Crosby without a doubt, but when Ovi becomes the leading goal scorer of all time, I think that tilts it Ovi’s way. That’s a legitimate accomplishment to which you can say Ovi had a better career than Crosby.

I don’t know why everyone just ignores the fact that Ovi is gonna be the leading goal scorer of all time like that’s nothing. He’s gonna be remembered more because of it than Crosby. I bet you people are gonna talk about Ovi breaking that record more than any of Crosby’s accomplishments.

Again, read the thread. No one is saying it's "nothing." It's a fantastic accomplishment.

BUT, Crosby scores more, wins more, and affects games more.

That's why he's considered better. He's all time elite at 2 different aspects of scoring. Ovi only one. Just look at the poll here. This isn't really even close.

The all time goals record is extremely important. But even with that, Crosby has 60+ more points in almost 2 less seasons! He has 3x more cups, 2x more scoring titles, etc. how is that not a better career? The goal is to win, and score points (for a forward at least), right?

If the question is who had the better career at scoring goals only, Ovi no question! But goal scoring is not the only part of hockey.

 

[paracord]

Probably more difficult

Right. I'd foresee the goals record potentially getting beaten before someone goes PPG for 20 straight seasons. Just playing 20 seasons is very rare, let alone scoring at a PPG rate.

Right now Matthews is on pace for the goals record but he's already sunk for Crosby's 20 straight record because he was under PPG in his first season.

McDavid after this year will only be HALF WAY to Crosby.

 

[the_fan]

Again, read the thread. No one is saying it's "nothing." It's a fantastic accomplishment.

BUT, Crosby scores more, wins more, and affects games more.

That's why he's considered better. He's all time elite at 2 different aspects of scoring. Ovi only one. Just look at the poll here. This isn't really even close.

The all time goals record is extremely important. But even with that, Crosby has 60+ more points in almost 2 less seasons! He has 3x more cups, 2x more scoring titles, etc. how is that not a better career?

If the question is who had the better career at scoring goals only, Ovi no question! But goal scoring is not the only part of hockey.

Again, goal scoring is what hockey is about, and we’re talking about the guy who’s gonna be the greatest and leading goal scorer of all time while not being too far behind Crosby in total career points. We can agree or disagree on this topic all we want, it’s just a matter of opinion and in my opinion, Ovi will have better career when he breaks the record. That’s all to it.

 

[paracord]

Again, goal scoring is what hockey is about, and we’re talking about the guy who’s gonna be the greatest and leading goal scorer of all time while not being too far behind Crosby in total career points. We can agree or disagree on this topic all we want, it’s just a matter of opinion and in my opinion, Ovi will have better career when he breaks the record. That’s all to it.

And more goals are scored with Crosby on the ice than Ovechkin. Ovi has almost a 2 year head start and Crosby still leads him by a decent player's season total in points!

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. But it's definitely in the minority.

Even this year for example...let's say both guys are available as rentals for a playoff team. Which one do you think they are taking first?

 

[the_fan]

And more goals are scored with Crosby on the ice than Ovechkin.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. But it's definitely in the minority.

Even this year for example...let's say both guys are available as rentals for a playoff team. Which one do you think they are taking first?

I’m an Avs fan, and our entire fan base has been talking about Crosby to Avs (pipe dream) for couple of years now, and right now if I had to choose between Sid and Ovi and who I’d want on my team, it’d be Sid, I just think Ovi being the leading goal scorer of all time is a bigger deal than most of you here

 

[paracord]

I’m an Avs fan, and our entire fan base has been talking about Crosby to Avs (pipe dream) for couple of years now, and right now if I had to choose between Sid and Ovi and who I’d want on my team, it’d be Sid, I just think Ovi being the leading goal scorer of all time is a bigger deal than most of you here

I think it's a very big deal and huge props go to Ovi.

But you just said it yourself who you would take.

 

[the_fan]

I think it's a very big deal and huge props go to Ovi.

But you just said it yourself who you would take.

Yes I’d take Sid and I do think Crosby is the better player between the two, but I’m just answering the poll question which is, who had the better career, and in my opinion it’s Ovi because he’s gonna be the leading goal scorer of all time

 

[TheLegend27]

Right. I'd foresee the goals record potentially getting beaten before someone goes PPG for 20 straight seasons. Just playing 20 seasons is very rare, let alone scoring at a PPG rate.

Right now Matthews is on pace for the goals record but he's already sunk for Crosby's 20 straight record because he was under PPG in his first season.

McDavid after this year will only be HALF WAY to Crosby.

I don’t think so. In such a high scoring league, some star players could conceivably get 20 straight ppg seasons, assuming they come in NHL ready and age gracefully. Injuries have no impact on this record, because you could play 22 games a season and maintain the PPG streak. It’s unlikely as you said, but in a 3.1+ GPG league it’s much more achievable than during Crosby’s heyday DPE 2.0 scoring environment. Meanwhile, to break Ovi record you’d have to put up back to back 50 goal seasons for at the very least 18 seasons. 50 goals is 0.61 pace, and that pace rises dramatically each game you miss.

Let’s say Matthews averages 70 games a season. All the sudden he needs a 0.71 GPG pace to keep up. He plays 20 seasons? That’s still 0.64 which is higher than his career average in his PRIME. Ovechkin being this healthy is a complete anomaly that shouldn’t be seen as the standard.

 

[the_fan]

Right. I'd foresee the goals record potentially getting beaten before someone goes PPG for 20 straight seasons. Just playing 20 seasons is very rare, let alone scoring at a PPG rate.

Right now Matthews is on pace for the goals record but he's already sunk for Crosby's 20 straight record because he was under PPG in his first season.

McDavid after this year will only be HALF WAY to Crosby.

Crosby hasn’t even broken the PPG record. He needs one more to break it because Gretzky had 20 consecutive PPG seasons

Actually scratch that, my bad. Gretzky had 19 seasons