The better career: Crosby or Ovechkin?

[Praetorian Caps]

Ovie. Breaking the all time goal record has to count for something?!

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Crosby but it'll be close.

 

[psycat]

Sid was a key part of some Canadian Gold teams yes, but it's not an apple store apples comparison. Canada has far more talent than Russia.

True but I will say that Ovi always was rather underwhelming in international play, like sure he rocked Jagr once but thats about it. Got more vivid memories of, say, Kovalchuk having presence.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Surprised it’s this lopsided considering the premise is better career rather than better player. Ovi’s 9 Rockets, Breaking Gretzky goal record & 3 harts will look very favorably as time passes. I expected like 58-42 in favor of Crosby.

Crosby has a real chance to break into the top 5 in points and honestly being that high in points should be just as highly regarded as the goal record.

 

[filinski77]

Crosby has a real chance to break into the top 5 in points and honestly being that high in points should be just as highly regarded as the goal record.

That is absolutely nonsense.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

That is absolutely nonsense.

Why? Gretzkys point record is far and away the harder of the 2 records to break. Something Crosby/McDavid have no chance in touching or coming anywhere close.

Are we saying McDavid/Crosby are lesser players because they are more so playmakers than goal scorers and gear their game towards a record that truly will never be touched?

I don’t even need to argue that almost all sane NHL fans are picking Crosby/McDavid over Ovechkin whether OV has the goal record or not.

Give me the dude who has scored more points in their career. I don’t give a shit in what way that happened. Oh and the one who has also won far more. Since that is the main goal.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Once again people looking at one single goal, and/or the success of the greatest hockey nation overall to boost Crosby as if he was actually ever as dominant at the international stage as he was at the NHL stage.

Fun fact: Between Crosby and Ovechkin - only Ovechkin has ever made an Olympic all-star team. The reality is, if Crosby was Russian and Ovechkin was Canadian, there would most likely be no change in the international success of either Russia or Canada.

Analysis:
Crosby wins a ton at the international stage - but the question of this is how much of that winning is due to him vs. his team being juggernaut Team Canada.

Crosby is one of the best players of all-time, and is a decorated player at the international level. BUT - he is nowhere near one of the best international players of all-time. You can comfortably say he has never been a top-2 player on his own team at any true best-on best.

True best-on-bests:
2004 WJC Silver: Young, but still not one of the top players on the team
2005 WJC Gold: Anywhere from 3rd to 5th best player on Canada
2010 Olympics Gold: At best Canada's 5th best player
2014 Olympics Gold: At best Canada's 4th best player

Other Tournaments:
2006 World Championships: Best player on Canada
2015 World Championships Gold: At best Canada's 4th best player
2017 World Cup Gold: Best player on Canada
2025 4-Nations Gold: At best 4th best player on Canada

Crosby was very obviously the best player on 2015 Canada, what are you talking about?

I assume you're just stat watching and not taking into account that he rested in a meaningless game against Latvia where everyone else got to pad their stats.

 

[filinski77]

Why? Gretzkys point record is far and away the harder of the 2 records to break. Something Crosby/McDavid have no chance in touching or coming anywhere close.

Are we saying McDavid/Crosby are lesser players because they are more so playmakers than goal scorers and gear their game towards a record that truly will never be touched?

I don’t even need to argue that almost all sane NHL fans are picking Crosby/McDavid over Ovechkin whether OV has the goal record or not.

Give me the dude who has scored more points in their career. I don’t give a shit in what way that happened. Oh and the one who has also won far more. Since that is the main goal.

Your initial assertion was that 5th in points all time should be as highly regarded as 1st in goals.

Now you're saying that Gretzky's point record is harder to break (which I agree). Hopefully you can understand the logic that being behind 3 other guys that AREN'T Gretzky in points has nothing to do with Gretzky being astronomically further ahead in points.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Ovechkin.

Especially if he wins a Cup this year

 

[filinski77]

Team Canada is Indeed a juggernaut, but the most effective player on this team was Crosby

Who was better than him in 2010 and 2014?

Crosby's team and international success blows Ovi's out of the water and will be the primary reason why he's viewed as having the better career in the long run.

True but I will say that Ovi always was rather underwhelming in international play, like sure he rocked Jagr once but thats about it. Got more vivid memories of, say, Kovalchuk having presence.

Crosby was very obviously the best player on 2015 Canada, what are you talking about?

I assume you're just stat watching and not taking into account that he rested in a meaningless game against Latvia where everyone else got to pad their stats.

So much revisionist history. All of you are seriously just correlating being on a stacked Team Canada and scoring one single clutch goal as him being some kind of phenom international player. You can deny it all you want, but Crosby has been nothing more than average at best-on-best.

World Juniors (Best on best for young kids)
Crosby: Has a gold, but never been a top-2 player on his own team. In 2004 he was like 6th on his own team in points, and in 2005 Bergeron, Carter, Phaneuf all made the all-star team, and you could also argue Getzlaf was better.

Ovechkin: Has a gold where he lead the tournament in goals. And also has a silver where he won the best forward award.

Result: Equal team success, Ovechkin better as an individual player

Olympics:
Ovechkin: No team success, sure, but purely because the quality of Russia is nowhere near Canada. Ovechkin has made an Olympic all-star team, Crosby has never come close.

Crosby: All of the team success, yes, but also because he had the luxury of world-class goaltending and multiple teammates who played better than him, and multiple others at the same level as him. See further Olympic analysis below.

Result: Crosby better team success, and as individual players they are at WORST equal, and if anything a slight advantage to Ovi. Some of you literally get so hard for the golden goal, but can't accept that Crosby has never been a top 3 player on Team Canada for the Olympics, nor even a top-10 player in the whole tournament. Yet to some of you he's "the best international player ever"? Give me a f***ing break LOL.

World Championships (not true best-on-best)
Both have Golds.

Crosby: has a best forward award (in a year they didn't win)

Ovechkin: made the WC all-star teams in 2006 and 2008, and also in 2014 was awarded a top-3 player on the gold medal winning team nomination.

Result: Call it a wash

Other Tournaments:
World Cup: I can't really evaluate this seriously, since it had fake international teams (the young kids north america, and the team Europe). How hard these guys tried or cared overall? No idea - but sure give Crosby an advantage in the least meaningful tournament in consideration.

4 Nations: Crosby was like the 4th best player on his own team, and Ovechkin didn't get to play. Nor was this really best-on-best since like a third of the best players in the league didn't get to play.

Further Olympic analysis:
2010 Olympics: Through the first 3 elimination games Crosby had a total of ONE goal (which was the 5-1 goal in what ended up being an 8-2 blowout). Crosby was a non-factor in getting his team to the Finals. Realistically on his own team he was outplayed by: Toews, Iginla, Getzlaf, Weber. You can then further make arguments for guys like Staal and Perry too who had one less point in the whole tournament, but double the amount of points in elimination games (both 4 vs. 2)

2014 Olympics: Crosby once again is a non-factor in the elimination games leading up to the gold medal game (0 points in 2 games), and then did score the 2-0 goal in a 3-0 game in the finals. He was really Canada's 4th or 5th best player behind Doughty, Weber, Toews, and maybe even Carter if we are being honest.

@bambamcam4ever -> "I assume you're just stat watching and not taking into account that he rested in a meaningless game against Latvia where everyone else got to pad their stats."
What are you talking about?
-> The Latvia game in the 2014 Olympics was the Quarterfinal (not a meaningless game).
-> Crosby did not rest (he had the 2nd most ice time that game amongst forwards - 13 seconds less than Towes)
-> Nobody padded their stats, as it was a 2-1 game.

Complain about stat watching yet you have 0 idea what the stats even are.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

So much revisionist history. All of you are seriously just correlating being on a stacked Team Canada and scoring one single clutch goal as him being some kind of phenom international player. You can deny it all you want, but Crosby has been nothing more than average at best-on-best.

World Juniors (Best on best for young kids)
Crosby: Has a gold, but never been a top-2 player on his own team. In 2004 he was like 6th on his own team in points, and in 2005 Bergeron, Carter, Phaneuf all made the all-star team, and you could also argue Getzlaf was better.

Ovechkin: Has a gold where he lead the tournament in goals. And also has a silver where he won the best forward award.

Result: Equal team success, Ovechkin better as an individual player

Olympics:
Ovechkin: No team success, sure, but purely because the quality of Russia is nowhere near Canada. Ovechkin has made an Olympic all-star team, Crosby has never come close.

Crosby: All of the team success, yes, but also because he had the luxury of world-class goaltending and multiple teammates who played better than him, and multiple others at the same level as him. See further Olympic analysis below.

Result: Crosby better team success, and as individual players they are at WORST equal, and if anything a slight advantage to Ovi. Some of you literally get so hard for the golden goal, but can't accept that Crosby has never been a top 3 player on Team Canada for the Olympics, nor even a top-10 player in the whole tournament. Yet to some of you he's "the best international player ever"? Give me a f***ing break LOL.

World Championships (not true best-on-best)
Both have Golds.

Crosby: has a best forward award (in a year they didn't win)

Ovechkin: made the WC all-star teams in 2006 and 2008, and also in 2014 was awarded a top-3 player on the gold medal winning team nomination.

Result: Call it a wash

Other Tournaments:
World Cup: I can't really evaluate this seriously, since it had fake international teams (the young kids north america, and the team Europe). How hard these guys tried or cared overall? No idea - but sure give Crosby an advantage in the least meaningful tournament in consideration.

4 Nations: Crosby was like the 4th best player on his own team, and Ovechkin didn't get to play. Nor was this really best-on-best since like a third of the best players in the league didn't get to play.

Further Olympic analysis:
2010 Olympics: Through the first 3 elimination games Crosby had a total of ONE goal (which was the 5-1 goal in what ended up being an 8-2 blowout). Crosby was a non-factor in getting his team to the Finals. Realistically on his own team he was outplayed by: Toews, Iginla, Getzlaf, Weber. You can then further make arguments for guys like Staal and Perry too who had one less point in the whole tournament, but double the amount of points in elimination games (both 4 vs. 2)

2014 Olympics: Crosby once again is a non-factor in the elimination games leading up to the gold medal game (0 points in 2 games), and then did score the 2-0 goal in a 3-0 game in the finals. He was really Canada's 4th or 5th best player behind Doughty, Weber, Toews, and maybe even Carter if we are being honest.

@bambamcam4ever -> "I assume you're just stat watching and not taking into account that he rested in a meaningless game against Latvia where everyone else got to pad their stats."
What are you talking about?
-> The Latvia game in the 2014 Olympics was the Quarterfinal (not a meaningless game).
-> Crosby did not rest (he had the 2nd most ice time that game amongst forwards - 13 seconds less than Towes)
-> Nobody padded their stats, as it was a 2-1 game.

Complain about stat watching yet you have 0 idea what the stats even are.

View attachment 999505

View attachment 999508

Sorry, my mistake! It was Austria, not Latvia that he sat against (Canada won 10-1)

 

[TheLegend27]

While I side with Crosby, there are a few arguments for Ovi having a greater career/legacy that are often overlooked.

-Has the best three year(prime) stretch between him and Sid(2008-2010)
-Has the better peak season(2008)
-Most Rocket wins all time
-Most goals all time
-Impact on the franchise: Pit was blessed with other legends such as Mario, Jagr, Malkin while Ovechkin has made the Caps what they are today by himself.
-Was generally seen as more entertaining in his prime, and hence drew more people to the game of hockey
-Historic durability
-Worse supporting cast than Crosby(Malkin, Flower, Letang) compared to Backstrom, Oshie.
-Compared to Wayne and Mario on the most important facet of the game(goal scoring). How many can say that?.

I’m not saying any of those make Ovi greater, but those are just valid reasons for why Ovi might be remembered more fondly.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

While I side with Crosby, there are a few arguments for Ovi having a greater career/legacy that are often overlooked.

-Has the best three year(prime) stretch between him and Sid(2008-2010)
-Has the better peak season(2008)
-Most Rocket wins all time
-Most goals all time
-Impact on the franchise: Pit was blessed with other legends such as Mario, Jagr, Malkin while Ovechkin has made the Caps what they are today by himself.
-Was generally seen as more entertaining in his prime, and hence drew more people to the game of hockey
-Historic durability
-Worse supporting cast than Crosby(Malkin, Flower, Letang) compared to Backstrom, Oshie.
-Compared to Wayne and Mario on the most important facet of the game(goal scoring). How many can say that?.

I’m not saying any of those make Ovi greater, but those are just valid reasons.

Ovechkin had better teammates than Crosby over his career. Naming Fleury is also odd since the Capitals had better goaltending than the Penguins over the last 2 decades.

 

[TheLegend27]

Ovechkin had better teammates than Crosby over his career. Naming Fleury is also odd since the Capitals had better goaltending than the Penguins over the last 2 decades.

Most people rank Fleury way above Holtby & Varlomov even discarding his Vegas days though. What I’m talking about is that Ovi never had a Malkin that said I’m winning no matter what and took over like in 2009. If Ovi doesn’t produce, the ship crashes. If Crosby doesn’t produce, it can sail smoothly(Malkin 2009, Kessel 2016).

 

[Plural]

Better player: Crosby
Better NHL career: Crosby (3 cups, more points)
Better international career: Crosby
Best feat: Ovechkin when he breaks the record.

 

[wetcoast]

Once again people looking at one single goal, and/or the success of the greatest hockey nation overall to boost Crosby as if he was actually ever as dominant at the international stage as he was at the NHL stage.

Fun fact: Between Crosby and Ovechkin - only Ovechkin has ever made an Olympic all-star team. The reality is, if Crosby was Russian and Ovechkin was Canadian, there would most likely be no change in the international success of either Russia or Canada.

Analysis:
Crosby wins a ton at the international stage - but the question of this is how much of that winning is due to him vs. his team being juggernaut Team Canada.

Crosby is one of the best players of all-time, and is a decorated player at the international level. BUT - he is nowhere near one of the best international players of all-time. You can comfortably say he has never been a top-2 player on his own team at any true best-on best.

True best-on-bests:
2004 WJC Silver: Young, but still not one of the top players on the team
2005 WJC Gold: Anywhere from 3rd to 5th best player on Canada
2010 Olympics Gold: At best Canada's 5th best player
2014 Olympics Gold: At best Canada's 4th best player

Other Tournaments:
2006 World Championships: Best player on Canada
2015 World Championships Gold: At best Canada's 4th best player
2017 World Cup Gold: Best player on Canada
2025 4-Nations Gold: At best 4th best player on Canada

I don't agree with the other poster assertion that Crosby is the best international player ever but you wasted a ton of time when it's pretty obvious that Crosby as an individual players is much better than Ovechkin internationally.

 

[Crow]

I guess I gotta vote for Crosby since he was on better teams in the NHL and born in Canada.

That goal record is something else though by 8.

Much better than Crosby’s laughable PPG streak “record” which features seasons where he played less than half the games.

 

[Gurglesons]

Most people rank Fleury way above Holtby & Varlomov even discarding his Vegas days though. What I’m talking about is that Ovi never had a Malkin that said I’m winning no matter what and took over like in 2009. If Ovi doesn’t produce, the ship crashes. If Crosby doesn’t produce, it can sail smoothly(Malkin 2009, Kessel 2016).

Kuznetsov lead the team in points in 2018 by the same amount Malkin did in 09 over Sid.

 

[Crow]

Kuznetsov lead the team in points in 2018 by the same amount Malkin did in 09 over Sid.

Malkin has been better than Crosby all year some years. I don’t think I can say that about anyone on the capitals once definitively since ovi has been there. It might have been close for Ovi who was the best player on the team a couple times. For Crosby and Malkin it was close many years / almost every year who was better on a per game basis.

Seems likely this is why ovi won once and Crosby won 3 times. Yes players stepped up in both cases but more often in crosby’s case as it was much more likely to happen on the pens than the capitals.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Malkin has been better than Crosby all year some years. I don’t think I can say that about anyone on the capitals once definitively since ovi has been there. It might have been close for Ovi who was the best player on the team a couple times. For Crosby and Malkin it was close many years / almost every year who was better on a per game basis.

Seems likely this is why ovi won once and Crosby won 3 times. Yes players stepped up in both cases but more often in crosby’s case as it was much more likely to happen on the pens than the capitals.

Yes, Malkin was better than any one teammate of Ovechkin. The rest of OV's teammates were consistently better than the Penguins roster after Crosby and Ovechkin

 

[CascadiaPuck]

Better player: Crosby
Better NHL career: Crosby (3 cups, more points)
Better international career: Crosby
Best feat: Ovechkin when he breaks the record.

I can get behind this. I would add two more:
More fun to watch: Ovechkin
Better playoff performer: Crosby

I pick Crosby and do so without any disrespect to Ovechkin’s play, which has been stellar.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Most people rank Fleury way above Holtby & Varlomov even discarding his Vegas days though. What I’m talking about is that Ovi never had a Malkin that said I’m winning no matter what and took over like in 2009. If Ovi doesn’t produce, the ship crashes. If Crosby doesn’t produce, it can sail smoothly(Malkin 2009, Kessel 2016).

It really doesn't matter at all who people will take. The Capitals have had better goaltending than the Penguins over Crosby and Ovechkin's careers. Especially in the playoffs, where I think Washington has had a ridiculous 922 SV%. Or at least it was before last season.

 

[daver]

Let's dispel the notion that scoring more goals gives Ovechkin an edge:

Top 10 Art Ross finishes:

Crosby - 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5, 6, 10, 10

Ovechkin - 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 7, 8


Top 10 Hart finishes:

Crosby - 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9

Ovechkin - 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 6, 6, 7, 9


Eliminate the duplicates:

Crosby - 2, 2, 3, 4

Ovechkin - 1, 6, 7

A clear correlation between elite Art Ross finishes (and elite 2-way play) and Hart Trophy votes.

 

[hockey4sale]

This is not about who was better overall player or who has more team awards, to me this is about who people will remember 30years from now and 30years from now most younger fans will have no idea who is Crosby but Ovi’s name will be immortal and mentioned together with names like Lemieux Orr Gretzky

 

[Empoleon8771]

So much revisionist history. All of you are seriously just correlating being on a stacked Team Canada and scoring one single clutch goal as him being some kind of phenom international player. You can deny it all you want, but Crosby has been nothing more than average at best-on-best.

World Juniors (Best on best for young kids)
Crosby: Has a gold, but never been a top-2 player on his own team. In 2004 he was like 6th on his own team in points, and in 2005 Bergeron, Carter, Phaneuf all made the all-star team, and you could also argue Getzlaf was better.

Ovechkin: Has a gold where he lead the tournament in goals. And also has a silver where he won the best forward award.

Result: Equal team success, Ovechkin better as an individual player

Olympics:
Ovechkin: No team success, sure, but purely because the quality of Russia is nowhere near Canada. Ovechkin has made an Olympic all-star team, Crosby has never come close.

Crosby: All of the team success, yes, but also because he had the luxury of world-class goaltending and multiple teammates who played better than him, and multiple others at the same level as him. See further Olympic analysis below.

Result: Crosby better team success, and as individual players they are at WORST equal, and if anything a slight advantage to Ovi. Some of you literally get so hard for the golden goal, but can't accept that Crosby has never been a top 3 player on Team Canada for the Olympics, nor even a top-10 player in the whole tournament. Yet to some of you he's "the best international player ever"? Give me a f***ing break LOL.

World Championships (not true best-on-best)
Both have Golds.

Crosby: has a best forward award (in a year they didn't win)

Ovechkin: made the WC all-star teams in 2006 and 2008, and also in 2014 was awarded a top-3 player on the gold medal winning team nomination.

Result: Call it a wash

Other Tournaments:
World Cup: I can't really evaluate this seriously, since it had fake international teams (the young kids north america, and the team Europe). How hard these guys tried or cared overall? No idea - but sure give Crosby an advantage in the least meaningful tournament in consideration.

4 Nations: Crosby was like the 4th best player on his own team, and Ovechkin didn't get to play. Nor was this really best-on-best since like a third of the best players in the league didn't get to play.

Further Olympic analysis:
2010 Olympics: Through the first 3 elimination games Crosby had a total of ONE goal (which was the 5-1 goal in what ended up being an 8-2 blowout). Crosby was a non-factor in getting his team to the Finals. Realistically on his own team he was outplayed by: Toews, Iginla, Getzlaf, Weber. You can then further make arguments for guys like Staal and Perry too who had one less point in the whole tournament, but double the amount of points in elimination games (both 4 vs. 2)

2014 Olympics: Crosby once again is a non-factor in the elimination games leading up to the gold medal game (0 points in 2 games), and then did score the 2-0 goal in a 3-0 game in the finals. He was really Canada's 4th or 5th best player behind Doughty, Weber, Toews, and maybe even Carter if we are being honest.

@bambamcam4ever -> "I assume you're just stat watching and not taking into account that he rested in a meaningless game against Latvia where everyone else got to pad their stats."
What are you talking about?
-> The Latvia game in the 2014 Olympics was the Quarterfinal (not a meaningless game).
-> Crosby did not rest (he had the 2nd most ice time that game amongst forwards - 13 seconds less than Towes)
-> Nobody padded their stats, as it was a 2-1 game.

Complain about stat watching yet you have 0 idea what the stats even are.

View attachment 999505

View attachment 999508

This is a lot of words that does literally nothing to refute the argument that Crosby has more international success than Ovi.

No one gives a shit that Ovi had more goals in the 2004 WJC than Crosby. Thats not what is being discussed. People care that Crosby has won way more, which is why he’s going to be viewed to have the better career.