World Cup: the best hockey ever 1987 Canada vs USSR

[RED ARMY EAST]

This was the flaw with the Canada Cup that precluded it from attaining best on best status. You had Canadian citizens who were also NHL employees who refereed the games. It is just not possible to have a fair outcome under those circumstances. I thought that because of the absences on the Soviet side in 1984, you could say that both sides were even in talent. But in 1987, the Soviets had an overall advantage in talent, and yes, refereeing had a lot to do with the final outcome.

Who missed the tournament for the Soviets in 1984?
87 Final: Check out the hook on the 4'th Soviet goal ( game 3) good one 'eh'.

 

[Peter25]

Wasn't this the "Don Koharski Cup" since it was Koharski who gave a "victory" to his own country.

 

[Peter25]

I think it was after the 1981 Canada Cup fiasco that the organizers of this tournament decided that Canada cannot beat the Soviets without Canadian (or American) ref. The 1981 CC final was officiated by Swedish Dag Olsson and the Soviets won 8-1. From that point on every important Canada's game was officiated by a Canadian or an American referee.

The Soviets were the best team both in 1984 and 1987 and Canadians knew they would not beat them without some cheating.

 

[Peter25]

I don't know how a Canadian person can look at that and say "we won in 87 fair and square". There was so much filth from the Canadian side, it's ridiculous. Up until Lemieux's winning goal, which should have been whistled down for Hawerchuk's hook. But on the official legendary replay they never show that angle.

This is just one example.

I remember Hartsburg taking Krutov out of the game in one of the finals with a brutal crosscheck to Krutov's back. Krutov went to locker room and Koharski did not give Hartsburg even a minor penalty. Krutov was the best Soviet forward by far. En equivalent would have been a Soviet taking Gretzky or Lemieux out with a similar cheap shot and not being penalized.

I also remember Propp slashing Khomutov to his head when Khomutov was celebrating a goal he just scored. In a normal game this would have meant an automatic match penalty for Propp, but Koharski decided to let Propp go unpunished.

Also two perfectly legal Soviet goals were disallowed in the second final. If Canada would have scored similar goals they would have been allowed.

These are just a few examples how Koharski won this tournament for his home country.

 

[Peter25]

To say that this tournament wasn't "best on best" is ridiculous. Yes it was on Canadian soil, NHL sized ice surface and NHL refs, still far and away better than European reffing that we had been used too since the 60's. Nothing worse than 72 in the Soviet Union when Canadians threatened not to play the final game.
Show video of the Russian dives during the 87 Canada Cup, plenty, if you want to go down that road.
Take a look at coach "Tikonov" drilling his players after the Lemieux goal and tell me that wasn't a best on best!
By the way, love your passion for Russian and international hockey!

It doesn't matter if the Canadian/NHL refs were "better" than their European counterparts if they were not impartial and were given orders to favor Canada against the Soviets.

 

[JackSlater]

Also of note in 1987 - K.C. Irving bribed Soviet players to keep the games close but not win (they scored accidentally in the first overtime). Bryan Adams and Corey Hart put on concerts outside the Soviet hotel as the players were trying to sleep. Brian Mulroney personally spit in every meal that the Soviet players were served. Noted rink technician Walter Gretzky also rigged the ice surface so that the ice tilted against the Soviets in each period. I think that he used the same technology as the Canadarm. It's a national shame really.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Best on Best all time:
76 Canada Cup- W Canada
81 Canada Cup-W Soviet Union
84 Canada Cup-WCanada
87 Canada Cup-W Canada
91 Canada Cup-W Canada
96 World Cup-W USA
98 Nagano Olympics-Czech
2002 Salt Lake- W Canada
2004 World Cup- W Canada
2006 Turin Olympics- W Sweden
2010 Vancouver-W Canada
2014 Sochi-W Canada
2017 World Cup-W Canada

All time Best on Best:
Canada 9
USSR/Russia 1
Czech 1
Sweden 1
USA 1

In case you need to be reminded.
And of course, all of the Canadian wins have been rigged. You guys sound like the "Fake News"!

 

[Yakushev72]

Also of note in 1987 - K.C. Irving bribed Soviet players to keep the games close but not win (they scored accidentally in the first overtime). Bryan Adams and Corey Hart put on concerts outside the Soviet hotel as the players were trying to sleep. Brian Mulroney personally spit in every meal that the Soviet players were served. Noted rink technician Walter Gretzky also rigged the ice surface so that the ice tilted against the Soviets in each period. I think that he used the same technology as the Canadarm. It's a national shame really.

Did Bryan Adams do "Summer of '69?" Sorry I missed it.

The Canada Cup was never intended to be a best on best tournament, and it never was. It was a privately owned NHL summer exhibition series intended only to make money for the NHL Players Association. At the time, Alan Eagleson was the head of the NHLPA and also de facto king of the NHL. He totally controlled Canadian hockey on his way to prison. He devalued the worth of the series in 1984 when he decreed, after Canada was beaten in the round robin part of the series by the Soviets, 6-3, that Dag Olsson and other European referees would no longer be allowed to referee medal round games. As literally the personal owner of the Canada Cup series, he stated his privately held right to change the rules and competitive conditions to prevent what happened in 1981 from recurring. That removed any claim to legitimacy of the series to rank world teams. There was some great and entertaining hockey, but only the beneficiaries, the Canadians, would argue that it was a legitimate best on best tournament.

 

[Yakushev72]

Best on Best all time:
76 Canada Cup- W Canada
81 Canada Cup-W Soviet Union
84 Canada Cup-WCanada
87 Canada Cup-W Canada
91 Canada Cup-W Canada
96 World Cup-W USA
98 Nagano Olympics-Czech
2002 Salt Lake- W Canada
2004 World Cup- W Canada
2006 Turin Olympics- W Sweden
2010 Vancouver-W Canada
2014 Sochi-W Canada
2017 World Cup-W Canada

All time Best on Best:
Canada 9
USSR/Russia 1
Czech 1
Sweden 1
USA 1

In case you need to be reminded.
And of course, all of the Canadian wins have been rigged. You guys sound like the "Fake News"!

Correction to a Trump base poster: 9-5 Canada Cups=4 best on best for Canada; add 2 to the Soviets/Russia for the Challenge Cup and Rendez Vouz 87, and now the score is 4-2

 

[Nino33]

Correction to a Trump base poster: 9-5 Canada Cups=4 best on best for Canada; add 2 to the Soviets/Russia for the Challenge Cup and Rendez Vouz 87, and now the score is 4-2

Odd that you're looking to exhibition games against a team of NHL stars (from multiple nations), and counting it as a nation over nation victory...if a Team Canada beat a team of KHL stars (from multiple nations), I can't see anyone considering that a victory for Canada over Russia

 

[Nino33]

Did Bryan Adams do "Summer of '69?" Sorry I missed it.

The Canada Cup was never intended to be a best on best tournament, and it never was.......There was some great and entertaining hockey, but only the beneficiaries, the Canadians, would argue that it was a legitimate best on best tournament.

It was massively closer to a best-on-best than any Olympics or Worlds held during the same time, that's why those that point to it as legitimate do so

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Odd that you're looking to exhibition games against a team of NHL stars (from multiple nations), and counting it as a nation over nation victory...if a Team Canada beat a team of KHL stars (from multiple nations), I can't see anyone considering that a victory for Canada over Russia

Correct, those were NHL stars, not a Team Canada.
Also, take in consideration the Russian advantage throughout the 70's,80's.
Fact, in which they had their best players train together on a National team, in which Canada, as well as the other Western countries did not! Yes, they dominated Worlds and Olympics, but sure not when it came to a "best on best" tournament.

 

[Peter25]

He devalued the worth of the series in 1984 when he decreed, after Canada was beaten in the round robin part of the series by the Soviets, 6-3, that Dag Olsson and other European referees would no longer be allowed to referee medal round games.

But don't you get it? Clearly the North American referees were so much BETTER than their European counterparts and that was the ONLY reason Eagleson had Canadian/American refs to officiate Canada's games after the 1981 final loss and the 1984 round robin loss against the USSR. Because they were "better".

 

[Peter25]

But the Soviets were to blame too. Not the players, but the Soviet hockey association. They should have never accepted those circumstances under which they had to play against Canada in those Canada Cups. The Soviets should have demanded an equal playing field or otherwise decline to participate in the tournament.

The Soviet Union was in an economic decline in the 1980s and they did receive money from those games (Canada Cups and games against NHL teams) which they needed, but at the same time they put their own players in a bad situation where they had to play against dirty teams and hostile referees. Star players of the Soviets such as Kharlamov and Krutov were always targets of some of the worst cheap shots ever seen in international hockey when playing against the NHL competition. The NHL refs would let the culprits of these cheap shots usually go unpunished.

In retrospect the Soviets should have introduced the goonery part into their hockey program against the NHL teams. Soviets (like currently Russians) always had some of the best fighters and martial artists in the world. They should have taught some of them to skate and play hockey, and taken at least one of them with the national team when they had to play against NHL competition. You take out Krutov and we take out Gretzky.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

I do remember Gretzky getting hammered by a Soviet in either game 2 or 3. It was in a defensive zone corner, resulting in Gretzky coffing up the puck behind the net and the Soviets buried it.
They did target him ,no question, Lemieux wasn't as easy to target, due to his size.
Fetisov and Kasatonov were tough!

 

[jj cale]

Also of note in 1987 - K.C. Irving bribed Soviet players to keep the games close but not win (they scored accidentally in the first overtime). Bryan Adams and Corey Hart put on concerts outside the Soviet hotel as the players were trying to sleep. Brian Mulroney personally spit in every meal that the Soviet players were served. Noted rink technician Walter Gretzky also rigged the ice surface so that the ice tilted against the Soviets in each period. I think that he used the same technology as the Canadarm. It's a national shame really.

It's always somewhat amusing to see this stuff persist from some russian and european posters,especially when they cheated so long with a rigged olympics. they just cant take the losses and they never will and they despise us so damn much.

I wont even get into how they can say this stuff with what we are all well aware has been going on with their athletes in terms of doping, everyone knows all about it, hearing these guys talk about cheating is rich coming from them of all people.

But 3o years later there is Canada winning again, even right on their home ice and under the conditions they want........................same old,same old in terms of who wins.

Funny how that works.

lets face facts, the issue is that we are better then them in the sport of hockey.................and they know it and it drives them half nuts.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Re; Canada Cup 87
Canada needed overtime against the Czech's in Montreal to advance and the Soviets were outplayed at times by Sweden in Hamilton in the other semi-final. I believe that Sweden held the shot advantage.
Bykov played great in that game, against a very talented Sweden.
The Russians also played Beloshikinin in nets in a 3-3 round robin tie with Canada, I think he may of played in game 2 of the final?? I remember him being touted as the next Tretiak.
I believe he passed at a young age, very sad.

 

[JackSlater]

Did Bryan Adams do "Summer of '69?" Sorry I missed it.

The Canada Cup was never intended to be a best on best tournament, and it never was. It was a privately owned NHL summer exhibition series intended only to make money for the NHL Players Association. At the time, Alan Eagleson was the head of the NHLPA and also de facto king of the NHL. He totally controlled Canadian hockey on his way to prison. He devalued the worth of the series in 1984 when he decreed, after Canada was beaten in the round robin part of the series by the Soviets, 6-3, that Dag Olsson and other European referees would no longer be allowed to referee medal round games. As literally the personal owner of the Canada Cup series, he stated his privately held right to change the rules and competitive conditions to prevent what happened in 1981 from recurring. That removed any claim to legitimacy of the series to rank world teams. There was some great and entertaining hockey, but only the beneficiaries, the Canadians, would argue that it was a legitimate best on best tournament.

No, it was "Cuts Like a Knife".

The Canada Cup was intended as a best on best. It was described as such at the time. Even on the IIHF website it is referred to in that manner. Whether you choose to accept the best from one nation playing against the best from another as best on best is your choice I suppose.

 

[Yakushev72]

Correct, those were NHL stars, not a Team Canada.
Also, take in consideration the Russian advantage throughout the 70's,80's.
Fact, in which they had their best players train together on a National team, in which Canada, as well as the other Western countries did not! Yes, they dominated Worlds and Olympics, but sure not when it came to a "best on best" tournament.

It was all of Team Canada, plus 3 Swedes who were among the NHL's best of the era. None of Canada's best players were left out of the Challenge Cup or Rendez Vous '87. In the video of the Challenge Cup, the announcer kept referring to Team NHL as "the Canadians."

 

[Yakushev72]

No, it was "Cuts Like a Knife".

The Canada Cup was intended as a best on best. It was described as such at the time. Even on the IIHF website it is referred to in that manner. Whether you choose to accept the best from one nation playing against the best from another as best on best is your choice I suppose.

It is a totally subjective opinion that isn't based on fact one way or another, although the most reasonable opinion is that was not a best on best, based on the owner's making subjective changes to the competitive balance to prevent Canada from losing. Or, as Bryan Adams might say, "Nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah nah, oh yeah, cuts like a knife..."

 

[JackSlater]

It is a totally subjective opinion that isn't based on fact one way or another, although the most reasonable opinion is that was not a best on best, based on the owner's making subjective changes to the competitive balance to prevent Canada from losing. Or, as Bryan Adams might say, "Nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah nah, oh yeah, cuts like a knife..."

Okay. Perhaps I will ignore that the best of each country were usually at Canada Cup tournaments competing against each other (almost like the best taking on the best) and instead focus on your admittedly subjective but apparently most reasonable opinion.

 

[Yakushev72]

Okay. Perhaps I will ignore that the best of each country were usually at Canada Cup tournaments competing against each other (almost like the best taking on the best) and instead focus on your admittedly subjective but apparently most reasonable opinion.

Arguably the best players were at the Canada Cup at times, but that is only one element of best on best. Among the many other elements are fairness and balance, and equal competition, and that is where I argue that it falls far short. The Soviets accepted it for what it was, and collected their small share of the profits. It was Canada that had something to prove, not the Soviets. There was nothing in it for the Soviets. No World Championship or Olympic Gold. For Canada, it was for the validation of their national essence, and also the value of their pro league. If the Soviets won, they might get an extra $5oo. That's all.

 

[JackSlater]

Arguably the best players were at the Canada Cup at times, but that is only one element of best on best. Among the many other elements are fairness and balance, and equal competition, and that is where I argue that it falls far short. The Soviets accepted it for what it was, and collected their small share of the profits. It was Canada that had something to prove, not the Soviets. There was nothing in it for the Soviets. No World Championship or Olympic Gold. For Canada, it was for the validation of their national essence, and also the value of their pro league. If the Soviets won, they might get an extra $5oo. That's all.

The best players were at most Canada Cups, though I can see that there are exceptions in the cases of 1976 and 1991. That is the primary consideration. Yakushev72's opinion of on the other elements is quite low on the list, though I would enjoy seeing the list of "best on best tournaments that Yakushev72 deems fair and balanced". Perhaps a new Fox News Cup is in order. The USSR's most significant single hockey achievement is winning the 1981 Canada Cup in dominating fashion. There was something to play for in the case of each participant. This isn't the joke 2016 World Cup or the majority of IIHf world championship tournaments.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Hypothetical situation, where the hourglass of time remains stationary and all technological differences with equipment are of equal value to both teams, and advances in the area of fitness, coaching, psychological domains..etc,etc.. are accounted for, who would win:

Team Canada 2014
vs
Team Canada 1987

The best offensive Team Canada vs. the best defensive Team Canada...thoughts?

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Hypothetical situation, where the hourglass of time remains stationary and all technological differences with equipment are of equal value to both teams, and advances in the area of fitness, coaching, psychological domains..etc,etc.. are accounted for, who would win:

Team Canada 2014
vs
Team Canada 1987

The best offensive Team Canada vs. the best defensive Team Canada...thoughts?

2014 was a shutdown team like no other. It would be an interesting match up, as Gretzky and Mario were the best combo to ever play in my opinion, but the offensive skill of 2014 wins out over the 87 team from a defensive perspective, no question.