The best captains in hockey history

[blundluntman]

This article also talks about early Potvin, but goes into more detail about the turnaround

THE CHANGING LIVES OF DENIS POTVIN (Published 1984)

"When Potvin talks about his teammates now it is with an affection that seems almost studied compared with his previous relationship with them. In his early years he separated himself from them physically and emotionally.

He recalls that at first he lived with many of them in Westbury, L.I. But then he moved to the more chic Garden City. He wondered aloud at the time why many of his teammates never availed themselves of New York City, never made the sort of friends he did. He was alienated from many of his teammates, but patched things up one day in a locker-room psychodrama. It was an emotional scene in which his teammates told him he had alienated them with what appeared to be put-downs of the way they lived compared with him. Potvin, for his part, conceded these failings and said he would try to change.

In the 1979-80 season they voted him their captain."

Also from the article: ''At the beginning of my career,'' he says, ''I had no time for anyone else because of my goals and ambitions. Now, my concern for my teammates shows through. In the last few years I had some trying off-the-ice problems, but none that left me so empty as my Dad dying.''

It's a nice read overall. Talks about Potvin's early ego and issues with teammates, his changing style of play at Arbour's insistence, and his struggles in the 1984 playoffs after his father died plus a divorce at the beginning of the season.

POTVIN FITTING IN, STANDING APART (Published 1985)

The above is also a good read. Talks a lot about Potvin's notable ego, but how he could relate to teammates much better later in his career. Paints a picture as Arbour as the leader of the team, at least in terms of building and directing Islanders culture. Also has Potvin talking about how he tried to pattern his game after Harvey because he knew he couldn't skate like Orr.

gonna give these a read when i get the chance this weekend. Much appreciated

 

[Hot Water Bottle]

Potvin is an interesting case. Definitely seems like he matured into a good leader, but early on when he was New York's best player (but not yet captain) he seems to have alienated his teammates quite a bit. This Sports Illustrated article talks about it, and I think that there is a New York Times article out there that goes into detail on it too.

UNDAUNTED AND UNHAUNTED

I dunno... to me that article only makes Potvin look like a cool guy who was surrounded by a bunch of weirdos. I mean, he's criticized by his own teammates because he's not respectful enough of Bobby Orr (!) and because he thinks NYC is a pretty fun place (!!) Seriously, wtf?

 

[The Panther]

There was definitely a thing with Potvin in his early years where he was the best player on the club and the smartest, most culturally sophisticated guy on the team... and if you don't believe me, just ask Potvin.

He definitely looked down his nose at many of his teammates in the early years. I mean, yeah, it's hockey-culture of the mid-1970s, and if you have any interests at all outside of sports, beer, and Playboy magazine, you're seen as a bit weird. But still, he seemed to openly relish the fact that he was Mr. Enlightened.

Seems he changed a lot later on.

 

[JackSlater]

I dunno... to me that article only makes Potvin look like a cool guy who was surrounded by a bunch of weirdos. I mean, he's criticized by his own teammates because he's not respectful enough of Bobby Orr (!) and because he thinks NYC is a pretty fun place (!!) Seriously, wtf?

I'd say that publicly questioning Orr getting player of the game awards, as his teammate and during the tournament itself, is clearly a negative. I'd also say that the issue is more how Potvin interacted with his teammates, not that he enjoyed New York. Gillies said in one of the articles that he never had much of an issue with Potvin's lifestyle because his play was that damn good, but he pissed his teammates off. As it pertains to this thread, Potvin was not a captain on those teams, but he was an assistant captain. Bring an assistant catain on the most loaded team Canada ever at his age actually speaks well to how Potvin was perceived.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

True I was a bit surprised by how much Roy talked as if Bourque was the real captain of the Avalanche (and apparently Sakic did offer him the C, which Bourque refused, I am not sure if that story does not make both sound like even better leader than before...), one would just imagine that cup winner-smythe Captain since 1993, lifelong franchise face would have been the clear leader.

not to discount sakic, who i respect tremendously, but it was always my understanding that roy was those avs teams’ real captain

 

[Kuljeskelen]

Saku Koivu, Nicklas Lidström are who I would like to mention, without really knowing too much other than the respect they received and the work ethics both of them had.

 

[MadLuke]

Koivu was apparently quite intimidating for young new players in the 2000s.

In general seem to have been good in a lot of way, but and some people could say that it is not a captain responsibility, it seem like montreal had cliques and a fissure with Rivet-Koivu-other veteran on one side and the younger Ribeiro-Traverse style.

Lot of the rookie of that time, Komisarek-Ribeiro-Kostityn brothers seem to have a lot of issues and not really pan out (that could just be they were the first players of the internet era and flip phone camera).

It is counterbalanced by showing up in the playoff.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

e definitely looked down his nose at many of his teammates in the early years. I mean, yeah, it's hockey-culture of the mid-1970s, and if you have any interests at all outside of sports, beer, and Playboy magazine, you're seen as a bit weird. But still, he seemed to openly relish the fact that he was Mr. Enlightened.

He bought Playboy for the articles, it got to his head.

not to discount sakic, who i respect tremendously, but it was always my understanding that roy was those avs teams’ real captain

Forsberg once told a story about him being laid out by Roy in the locker room for having suggested he could do some cruising through a first-round series against the Sharks.

 

[Crosby2010]

Potvin was the glue was he not? Strange because he is probably the best playoff performer of all-time who did NOT win a Conn Smythe. I'd have to judge Trottier's book on my own in seeing how much Potvin is mentioned, but as far as I know there hasn't been a recent falling out. And kudos to Orr for never holding it against Potvin for being mad that it wasn't him who was named MVP of the 1976 Canada Cup. Potvin played great too, but they gave it to Orr. Potvin actually outscored Orr in the finals vs. the Czechs. But hey, he was a 23 year old kid, probably heard a lot of stuff about how he isn't Orr and Orr is still the best and such over his 3 year career at that point and so on. Maybe got sick of hearing it, who knows. I'd want Potvin in my locker room and on the ice for sure. But like someone mentioned maybe he isn't at your Christmas dinner table.

Okay, Phil Esposito anyone? No, he wasn't a captain in Boston. Actually wasn't one until he was traded to the Rangers. Actually openly felt Rod Gilbert should have been the captain since he was a Ranger for so long. But I think Esposito was a natural leader regardless. Bucyk may have been the captain in Boston, but there is no doubt Esposito was the emotional captain. Look no further than the 1972 Summit Series. Maybe he doesn't take the bull by the horns if Hull is on the team. He probably defers a lot of things to Hull. But he thrived when he was "the man". Not just the speech after Game 4, but not quitting on the team, scoring 3 points in the final period, leading the tournament in scoring and to top it off, my favourite, that huddle he gives just before the final faceoff. I would pay big money to hear a recording of what he said in that huddle that included Cournoyer, P. Mahovlich, Savard and Lapointe. That's 4 Habs and 1 Bruin. All great players there, but Esposito was the alpha male. He's standing in the huddle around players with Stanley Cups, players taller than him, and he just leads them to victory. I love that.

Let me just say here that Jean Beliveau was fit for this thread in every which way. He is the #1 guy here. A class act if there ever was one. Crosby is coming close to that sort of captain legacy that Beliveau has. Beliveau was like if Mr. Rogers was a more burly and taller man who was good at hockey. He was just revered like that. Here is a good example. Johnny Bower was interviewed after Beliveau died. Bower was 90 at this time, older than Beliveau, and yet in the interview he calls him "Mr. Beliveau." Ted Lindsay once according to Michael Farber during an interview stood up when he heard Beliveau's name, simply out of respect.

I also tend to think Gretzky for whatever reason is underrated when captains come up. Isn't he an obvious choice in this debate as well?

Messier - well, duh!

I take Yzerman over Sakic. I liked Sakic, but yeah that offer sheet in 1997 with the Rangers does bug me a lot. Sakic did have that quiet leadership, but keep in mind when the 2006 Olympics happened and Yzerman and Mario are no longer there, the team did not flourish with Sakic as captain. I am going to take Stevie Y with me to war first. And no disrespect to Sakic either.

Toews belongs here too. I am not going to hang the very complicated Kyle Beach story at his feet here either. Very hard to know what he would have even known at that time. Toews was "Captain Serious". Well, to have a nickname that revolves around your leadership, it means you made it.

 

[sr edler]

Trevor Linden and Saku Koivu always gave a good impression from an outside perspective.

Koivu not seeing eye to eye with an immature/selfish player like Ribeiro seems like a big plus to me.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Trevor Linden and Saku Koivu always gave a good impression from an outside perspective.

Koivu not seeing eye to eye with an immature/selfish player like Ribeiro seems like a big plus to me.

I think in hindsight that the Ribeiro thing reflects so-so on Koivu. There are a few occasions where I am thinking the supposed leaders weren’t available during crucial times, including Koivu v. Ribeiro and Lidstrom under Babcock. I wouldn’t necessarily say their leadership was weak, but I’m not sure I respect it in hindsight.

With Koivu in regards to Ribeiro, I feel he might have dropped the ball on a young player in need of direction.

With Lidstrom, I sense he put blinders on and quietly sided with the draconian coaches who adored him. Anecdotally I respect Zetterberg much more who seemed to gain respect not just from his status and work ethic but from being a human being who openly feuded with Babcock and sided with his teammates, while at the same time being one of the hardest working guys in practice.

There wasn’t anything prompting me to bring Lidstrom into this, besides me thinking about both him and Koivu as childhood heroes in some way, whose revered leadership came to question in retrospect.