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OT: The Avalounge: No Witty Title Available (mod warning in OP)

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It's a topic that shouldn't be hard for much agreement to be found upon, that being said, it's a subject that could get easily heated and I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the lack rhetoric.

OT...Has anyone signed up for and actually used StarLink yet?
 
It's a topic that shouldn't be hard for much agreement to be found upon, that being said, it's a subject that could get easily heated and I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the lack rhetoric.

OT...Has anyone signed up for and actually used StarLink yet?
Have friend that has it in his cabin near alamosa… for day to day internet, it is nearly indistinguishable from cable. If you click around a bunch, you can see some latency.
 
It's a topic that shouldn't be hard for much agreement to be found upon, that being said, it's a subject that could get easily heated and I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the lack rhetoric.

OT...Has anyone signed up for and actually used StarLink yet?
Not identical, but I get service through an antenna on the roof of my building. Quality's been good, but it has outages at the same times as good ol' satellite TV (storms and the like).
 
So far, things have gone pretty well for the Ukrainians and the Russian operation has been fairly unimpressive. Clearly not achieving their objectives. The question is, how far is Putin willing to go before the political objective of the operation is a total loss. It very well might be that this was the thing from the moment things were set in motion, but we will see.

The sad thing is, unless something radical (like a coup in Russia) happens, I don't see Putin backing down. He won't take a defeat. I'm pretty sure he's more willing to push us into a nuclear holocaust before admitting that the invasion was a failure and retreating.
 
So far, things have gone pretty well for the Ukrainians and the Russian operation has been fairly unimpressive. Clearly not achieving their objectives. The question is, how far is Putin willing to go before the political objective of the operation is a total loss. It very well might be that this was the thing from the moment things were set in motion, but we will see.

The sad thing is, unless something radical (like a coup in Russia) happens, I don't see Putin backing down. He won't take a defeat. I'm pretty sure he's more willing to push us into a nuclear holocaust before admitting that the invasion was a failure and retreating.
I think the most likely thing is Russia amps up the firepower to attempt power Ukraine into submission. We are hearing reports of thermobaric weapons being used and that is a (large) step in that direction.
 
I think the most likely thing is Russia amps up the firepower to attempt power Ukraine into submission. We are hearing reports of thermobaric weapons being used and that is a (large) step in that direction.
Yup multiple columns headed to Kyiv.

Russia may force NATO into this just out of pure cruelty.

Keep a hefty supply of Javelins and stingers coming.
 
I knew there was a reason I love Zadorov, and it's not just his goofball antics.

Hopefully Russia is cut off from SWIFT before the end of the weekend. I've been a little disappointed thus far in the sanctions and certain parties' unwillingness to do what needs to be done.
Then again, I think that Rybolovlev and Abramovich need to have their soccer clubs seized and be deported.
I’m okay with any Russian athlete that’s had ties or support of the Kremlin be deported.

Russia is starting to see its lawmakers even turn. One was quoted saying “Donbass is what we voted for. Not a blitz for Kyiv. “
 
I think the most likely thing is Russia amps up the firepower to attempt power Ukraine into submission. We are hearing reports of thermobaric weapons being used and that is a (large) step in that direction.
Russia can and will probably increase its military efforts, but that strikes against the political objectives. The harder they fight, the harder the Ukrainians fight back, the more this is turning into Afganistan instead of just replacing the Kiev administration. And then what?

A major miss-calculation by Kremlin here, if they thought they could just march in, install a puppet government and everything would be fine. Ukrainian citizens have had their independence for over 30 years and are quite fond with it, they will not just give it away.
 
Russia can and will probably increase its military efforts, but that strikes against the political objectives. The harder they fight, the harder the Ukrainians fight back, the more this is turning into Afganistan instead of just replacing the Kiev administration. And then what?

A major miss-calculation by Kremlin here, if they thought they could just march in, install a puppet government and everything would be fine. Ukrainian citizens have had their independence for over 30 years and are quite fond with it, they will not just give it away.
This is pretty much spot on. What’s next is definitely the question
 
Russia can and will probably increase its military efforts, but that strikes against the political objectives. The harder they fight, the harder the Ukrainians fight back, the more this is turning into Afganistan instead of just replacing the Kiev administration. And then what?

A major miss-calculation by Kremlin here, if they thought they could just march in, install a puppet government and everything would be fine. Ukrainian citizens have had their independence for over 30 years and are quite fond with it, they will not just give it away.
The sad part is I don’t think Putin will ever accept this loss and will just keep escalating to various forms of dirty warfare until he wins.

Hopefully something happens in Russia that forces a change in government.
 
Russia can and will probably increase its military efforts, but that strikes against the political objectives. The harder they fight, the harder the Ukrainians fight back, the more this is turning into Afganistan instead of just replacing the Kiev administration. And then what?

A major miss-calculation by Kremlin here, if they thought they could just march in, install a puppet government and everything would be fine. Ukrainian citizens have had their independence for over 30 years and are quite fond with it, they will not just give it away.

I’ll tell you what happens next. We need to make sure our shit is 100% together and we need to we make sure we do everything in our power to make this situation go in the best possible direction from here forward.

It is imperative we get this right. This should be a galvanizing moment.
 
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Russia can and will probably increase its military efforts, but that strikes against the political objectives. The harder they fight, the harder the Ukrainians fight back, the more this is turning into Afganistan instead of just replacing the Kiev administration. And then what?

A major miss-calculation by Kremlin here, if they thought they could just march in, install a puppet government and everything would be fine. Ukrainian citizens have had their independence for over 30 years and are quite fond with it, they will not just give it away.
I could see this get ugly, Russia for the most part have ignored civilian population (that tank running over the bloke's car was disturbing though), but if the Ukraine army gets desperate enough, they're going to start to hide in apartment complexes, house, etc., just like how the Polish rebels did in the Warsaw Uprising during WWII. This will make Russia start turning and conduct bombing of these complexes regardless of if citizens are in there or not. Russia is supposedly sending in another troop division and have gotten two major airports around Kyiv. You're right that this can devolve into Afghanistan where the Ukrainian troops conduct "hit-and-run" tactics like the Taliban. That's much harder to fight because you got these huge convoys against quite effective small teams. Plus, it seems that a couple of countries including the United States gave Ukraine weaponry like anti-tank and anti-air rocket launchers.
 
I could see this get ugly, Russia for the most part have ignored civilian population (that tank running over the bloke's car was disturbing though), but if the Ukraine army gets desperate enough, they're going to start to hide in apartment complexes, house, etc., just like how the Polish rebels did in the Warsaw Uprising during WWII. This will make Russia start turning and conduct bombing of these complexes regardless of if citizens are in there or not. Russia is supposedly sending in another troop division and have gotten two major airports around Kyiv. You're right that this can devolve into Afghanistan where the Ukrainian troops conduct "hit-and-run" tactics like the Taliban. That's much harder to fight because you got these huge convoys against quite effective small teams. Plus, it seems that a couple of countries including the United States gave Ukraine weaponry like anti-tank and anti-air rocket launchers.
Even Germany finally came to their senses:


I don't think the original political goals of Russia are reachable anymore. The resilience of Ukrainian people and the support they are now getting from west is making sure this will be a lengthy insurgency. They thought they could re-establish their position prior 2014, yet all they have created is a new huge problem. They won't be able to contain Ukraine and its people with a puppet government, even if they would succeed in killing/capturing Zelensky in the near future.
 
Even Germany finally came to their senses:


So NATO countries are openly arming Ukraine? Damn! This isn't even a proxy war since Russia is directly involved. This could get really ugly real quick.

Edit: Apparently US, UK and Canada were already sending weapons
 
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So NATO countries are openly arming Ukraine? Damn! This isn't even a proxy war since Russia is directly involved. This could get really ugly real quick.
I don't think Putin can do anything since Germany hasn't declared war at all (perhaps stop selling oil production to them, but then they can buy from Canada or the Middle East). A ton of countries have supplied others in the past without ever going to war. I know Soviets gave a ton of weapons to people in the Middle East (or the -stan region) to fight their governments in the past and USA did the same thing for southern Vietnam before they joined the war. Turkey also has setup ship blockades in the Black Sea to prevent Russia from conducting whatever tactics they want. However, if worse comes to worse, we're seeing the Western nations vs Russia and China. Russia/China have absurd manpower, but the NATO nations have way superior technology.
 
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So NATO countries are openly arming Ukraine? Damn! This isn't even a proxy war since Russia is directly involved. This could get really ugly real quick.
NATO countries have been arming Ukraine for years, and have continued to do so even after this further invasion (Russia has invaded Ukraine since 2014).

Russia and Belarus have no friends left (Kazakhstan denied the recognition of separatist areas and refused to supply troops, China has not condemned them but neither supported them etc), they can't do anything about it. Unless Putin wants to destroy the entire world in a nuclear war, which given his mind-boggling decision to invade Ukraine, isn't probably all that far off. All we can hope there is that someone will step in and take him outside and say you've gone too far.
 
I don't think Putin can do anything since Germany hasn't declared war at all (perhaps stop selling oil production to them, but then they can buy from Canada or the Middle East). A ton of countries have supplied others in the past without ever going to war. I know Soviets gave a ton of weapons to people in the Middle East (or the -stan region) to fight their governments in the past and USA did the same thing for southern Vietnam before they joined the war. Turkey also has step up ship blockades in the Black Sea to prevent Russia from conducting whatever tactics they want. However, if worse comes to worse, we're seeing the Western nations vs Russia and China. Russia/China have absurd manpower, but the NATO nations have way superior technology.
What you are describing are proxy wars. This happened often but this is wildly different.

Russians weren't openly supplying weapons to the Iraqis to shoot at US soldiers, for example. Now NATO countries are supplying weapons to shoot directly at Russians. This is a whole other level and this is as close as it gets without NATO directly shooting at them.
 
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Russia and China probably wouldn't be allied. China would keep its hands clean in any protracted war with NATO countries. Any war would go nuclear pretty quickly too.
 
The tank that ran over the car was actually Ukrainian, it lost control. The guy who originally posted it apologized later for spreading false info. At that point there was no Russian armour in the part of Kiev.
 
Russia and China probably wouldn't be allied. China would keep its hands clean in any protracted war with NATO countries. Any war would go nuclear pretty quickly too.
Highly unlikely it would go nuclear… any sign of that would have massive international cooperation to shut it down immediately.
 
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