OT: The Avalounge (mod warning - No Politics)

McMetal

Writer of Wrongs
Sep 29, 2015
14,555
12,862
they don't really have the lawful authority to do that outside of an emergency

quadcopters have tiny radar signatures and the country is large

defense against small drones is an interesting field to be in right now
If a foreign power was violating our airspace, it would 100% qualify as an emergency. Even if they just suspected that it was foreign in origin and they didn't know what purpose it served, they would shoot first and ask questions later. The source would be found by spy satellites within 24 hours, and whoever was responsible would be in custody.

It just strains credulity to posit that the USAF would be looking at this, without knowing the source, and shrugging their shoulders at it. And between our civilian and military intelligence services, somebody somewhere would have an inkling of what was going on. The only conclusion left is that they know exactly what's going on, and they're not panicking because it's some kind of classified DOD test.
 

The Moops

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Aug 25, 2017
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If a foreign power was violating our airspace, it would 100% qualify as an emergency. Even if they just suspected that it was foreign in origin and they didn't know what purpose it served, they would shoot first and ask questions later. The source would be found by spy satellites within 24 hours, and whoever was responsible would be in custody.

It just strains credulity to posit that the USAF would be looking at this, without knowing the source, and shrugging their shoulders at it. And between our civilian and military intelligence services, somebody somewhere would have an inkling of what was going on. The only conclusion left is that they know exactly what's going on, and they're not panicking because it's some kind of classified DOD test.
So explain the Chinese balloon
 

illegitimate

Registered User
Oct 18, 2024
74
88
If a foreign power was violating our airspace, it would 100% qualify as an emergency. Even if they just suspected that it was foreign in origin and they didn't know what purpose it served, they would shoot first and ask questions later. The source would be found by spy satellites within 24 hours, and whoever was responsible would be in custody.

It just strains credulity to posit that the USAF would be looking at this, without knowing the source, and shrugging their shoulders at it. And between our civilian and military intelligence services, somebody somewhere would have an inkling of what was going on. The only conclusion left is that they know exactly what's going on, and they're not panicking because it's some kind of classified DOD test.
no, the military takes posse comitatus very seriously. not sure what exactly would have to be done by who, but deploying the national guard to respond to an emergency requires the state's governor to request it of the president and that's a lot less legally fraught than the actual air force.

unless it's someone they're already monitoring using a cell phone they know about, spy satellites aren't going to do much either because non-law enforcement surveillance of the US is also a legal minefield.

and when you have shit like the (former*) governor of maryland posting video on twitter of drones hovering over his house demanding that the government act and it's clearly stars:
cnn showing video of venus:
wall street journal showing video of airliners on approach patterns saying that nobody knows what they are but they weren't there before: https://www.wsj.com/tech/personal-tech/new-jersey-drones-mystery-51e7bd26,

my conclusion is:
 
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McMetal

Writer of Wrongs
Sep 29, 2015
14,555
12,862
no, the military takes posse comitatus very seriously. not sure what exactly would have to be done by who, but deploying the national guard to respond to an emergency requires the state's governor to request it of the president and that's a lot less legally fraught than the actual air force.

So you're telling me that if a Russian bomber violated America's airspace over Alaska and was on a path straight to Anchorage, the military would have to politely request permission from the state government and fill out a bunch of paperwork before it responded to the foreign threat? That's crazypants. Surprise foreign invasions are treated as the threats they are, the rules of engagement don't have a weekslong checklist that has to be satisfied before they can do anything about incursions into American airspace. Posse comitatus is about using the military for domestic law enforcement, not repelling invaders. We've spent trillions of dollars on the military since I was born, I would hope that if China invaded New Jersey that they would be able to at least notice it was happening before somebody posted a video of it on TikTok.

The drones that are being recorded are not commercially available. That leaves two options for their origin: the US military (or one of its contractors) or a foreign military. And since option B is out of the question, it's option A. It's unimaginable that the most powerful military on earth would be mystified and unable to respond to a foreign incursion into their territory. Defending the homeland is literally their number one job.

And the military is perfectly capable of keeping a secret from the governor of Maryland if they feel like it. Do you think Larry Hogan has eyes only clearance for US military research? Just ask all the people who filed FOIA requests about Area 51 about how forthcoming the military can be about something they want to keep secret.

All these drones are doing as of right now are flying low and weird, it's not like anyone has been hurt by one. Of course a defense contractor isn't going to be dropping bombs on the east coast, that would be a scandal and cost them their lucrative contract. They're certainly creeping people out, and it's gone viral because somehow people still believe in aliens, but no actual documented harm has come out of this yet.

Which again points away from a foreign origin. If anybody from another country wanted to spy on New Jersey from the air, they could use a small commercial drone with a few modifications to do it, which would be virtually undetectable. Why would they need dozens of low-flying drones the size of refrigerators? We can make smaller cameras than that. And if it's an attack and not a spy op, why haven't these very easy to spot drones provoked a swift military response?

Nothing else makes any sense. It's not foreign, it's not civilian, so who else would have the means and motive to do fly these things without the government scrambling to respond to it?
 
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illegitimate

Registered User
Oct 18, 2024
74
88
So you're telling me that if a Russian bomber violated America's airspace over Alaska and was on a path straight to Anchorage, the military would have to politely request permission from the state government and fill out a bunch of paperwork before it responded to the foreign threat? That's crazypants. Surprise foreign invasions are treated as the threats they are, the rules of engagement don't have a weekslong checklist that has to be satisfied before they can do anything about incursions into American airspace. Posse comitatus is about using the military for domestic law enforcement, not repelling invaders. We've spent trillions of dollars on the military since I was born, I would hope that if China invaded New Jersey that they would be able to at least notice it was happening before somebody posted a video of it on TikTok.

The drones that are being recorded are not commercially available. That leaves two options for their origin: the US military (or one of its contractors) or a foreign military. And since option B is out of the question, it's option A. It's unimaginable that the most powerful military on earth would be mystified and unable to respond to a foreign incursion into their territory. Defending the homeland is literally their number one job.
russian bombers do that regularly lol, we just send up an f-15 to escort them back to international airspace. several times a week sometimes. they're pricks.

but a bomber of russian make coming from the direction of russia isn't really an unknown aircraft, and it isn't a law enforcement problem the way that a drone originating from inside the united states doing suspicious things, maybe, is. or it's a planet, or a helicopter, or a 737, or a weird patch of fog, or a guy with a drone looking for the suspicious drones he's heard about.

the first warning of an invasion isn't gonna be a plane appearing on the horizon. remember that the CIA raised the warning about russia invading ukraine several months in advance, and that's a war where the other country's capitol is a day's drive down a highway. a cross-ocean invasion is a much more difficult thing to stage. normandy was like two and a half years in the making.

as for being commercially available - i'm pretty sure you could find someone willing to sell you venus if you looked.
 

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