OT: The Arizona Coyotes Lounge XVI - The Netflix, Disney+ Alternative

[rt]

Sorry boys, but Jakey's got a point. He may not be articulating his case well, but think "systemic consumerism."
Plenty of victims out there and the kids do suffer.

Yes. That’s a problem. But it’s not usually caused by people choosing to do this. They usually have to do this. Households need two incomes now. The banks f*** all our asses. As do the insurance companies. It’s not because women forgot to do their duty. It’s because banks and insurance companies are f***ing evil Feudal lords and they want all the serfs out there toiling in the fields. Even the women folk.

We don’t have a consumer electronics epidemic that’s destroying civilization. That’s Pejorative Slured.

 

[Jakey53]

What if neither parent wants to stop working because they get fulfillment from their job. Or are worried if they didn't work for several years to take care of the child/children their career trajectory won't recover? What if both parents are passionate about what they do? Should they just not have children?

We all have choices, each to their own.

 

[Jakey53]

Or each has $30k in student loan debt and don't want each child to end up with the same. In Jakey's day you could earn enough to go to Harvard by slowly wiping down the counter in a soda shop for three hours a night.

I'm talking about the first SIX years of a child's life, not until they are adults.

 

[Sinurgy]

Sorry boys, but Jakey's got a point. He may not be articulating his case well, but think "systemic consumerism."
Plenty of victims out there and the kids do suffer.

Systemic consumerism is absolutely a problem, probably won't get a lot of arguments there but the daycare angle is just dumb.

 

[Jakey53]

That big TV? That new smartphone?! lol...this isn't the 90's man. Damn near no one is putting their kid in daycare because they want to be able to afford that new cellphone or a big TV. Do you realize you can get a 60" 4K TV for under $500 these days?! That would cover what...maaaaybe two weeks of daycare. You're woefully out of touch.

As for your continued daycare shaming, eh whatever makes you feel superior but unless you raised a pair of astronauts you're just talking out of your ass.

Yes I'am. I think daycare is the worst you can do for a child from birth to age six. It has nothing to do about feeling superior. We all make sacrifies during our lifetime, you choose yours and I'll choose mind. I don't understand how any parent doesn't want to be there for their child and see that first crawl, first stand up, first walk, first skinned knee etc. You will never have those cherished memories. How can anyone trust a stranger with their baby? There will be time for that bigger house, new car etc. If that is talking out of my ass so be it.

 

[rt]

I've never had to put my kids in daycare. The concept scares the crap out of me. So I can't really speak authoritatively on this. I'm VERY lucky. My wife and I can both work AND our children can spend the work day in the home of a grandma who loves them, and gives them one-on-one attention. If someone is getting cheated out of quality time, it's definitely my wife and I, rather than the children. They love the set up they have. haha

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Unfortunately, there is no uniform standard of quality for day care centers. My daughter had to move my grandkids from a national brand's unit near U of A because of some really awful stuff going on. She called in the state and the place was shut down.

 

[Sinurgy]

Yes I'am. I think daycare is the worst you can do for a child from birth to age six. It has nothing to do about feeling superior. We all make sacrifies during our lifetime, you choose yours and I'll choose mind. I don't understand how any parent doesn't want to be there for their child and see that first crawl, first stand up, first walk, first skinned knee etc. You will never have those cherished memories. How can anyone trust a stranger with their baby? There will be time for that bigger house, new car etc. If that is talking out of my ass so be it.

6 is hilariously arbitrary, so what happens at 6 that makes all the difference Jakey? I also don't understand how any parent doesn't want to be there for their child and see that first crawl, first stand up, first walk, first skinned knee etc. I also don't understand what the hell that has to do with anything? Are you under the impression that a parent using daycare is automatically excluded from said milestones? Can you not conceive of part time, or maybe after age 2, a few days a week, etc.? And again with the ridiculous notion that people use daycare so they can get a big houses and new cars, I'm sorry but that is just stupid, that's rarely how that works. I think you have this picture in your mind of a certain kind of person and you're raging against them but not thinking about how relatively rare that person is in the grand scheme of things.

As for talking out your ass, it's not because you're concerned about kids well being (that part is awesome) it's that you're making sweeping generalizations about parents who use daycare and it's that you're drawing unsubstantiated inferences about how kids who experience daycare before they're 6 will be drastically disadvantaged. So as I alluded earlier, unless you raised a pair of astronauts, you don't really have much ground to stand on here to prove your approach is somehow superior.

 

[Grimes]

There is actually quite a bit of research that the human brains most important years for development happen before Kindergarten. Or at least the most rapid and impactful development.

 

[rt]

There is actually quite a bit of research that the human brains most important years for development happen before Kindergarten. Or at least the most rapid and impactful development.

Whelp. I’m screwed. Lol. You’ve met my kids before. They’re NUTS!!!

 

[Grimes]

Whelp. I’m screwed. Lol. You’ve met my kids before. They’re NUTS!!!

Hahaha no that's good. It's more that babies need mental stimulation. So being read to, spoken to, hugged, engaged with or they can start K-12 already behind their peers. This can happen at daycare as well, but it's much harder to know to what degree or quality than doing it yourself. The main concern are for children that live with parents who work multiple jobs and are often too tired to engage with their children enough.

 

[Sinurgy]

Hahaha no that's good. It's more that babies need mental stimulation. So being read to, spoken to, hugged, engaged with or they can start K-12 already behind their peers. This can happen at daycare as well, but it's much harder to know to what degree or quality than doing it yourself. The main concern are for children that live with parents who work multiple jobs and are often too tired to engage with their children enough.

I think TV and electronic devices are the worst for young ones. Not because technology bad but because it's better for them to be talking, being talked to or read to, and otherwise engaging and interacting with other humans and the world around them. At least I believe this is the case for the first couple of years where their brain is rapidly growing. Not sure what the finding are after that.

 

[Grimes]

I think TV and electronic devices are the worst for young ones. Not because technology bad but because it's better for them to be talking, being talked to or read to, and otherwise engaging and interacting with other humans and the world around them. At least I believe this is the case for the first couple of years where their brain is rapidly growing. Not sure what the finding are after that.

Yep, because it isn't the same stimulation as actually being spoken to, watching the facial features change, etc. Same reason why most people would struggle to learn math by listening to a calculus audio lesson rather than having someone teach mathematics.

I get irritated when I see parents hand their children an iPad when out to dinner and the child just watches videos. I don't blame them either, but I remember being a little kid at the dinner table and just listening to adult conversation. I'm not going to Jakey anyone and shame them for doing the iPad route either though, because being a parent is something that is completely foreign to me and something I don't plan to participate in.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Yes. That’s a problem. But it’s not usually caused by people choosing to do this. They usually have to do this. Households need two incomes now. The banks f*** all our asses. As do the insurance companies. It’s not because women forgot to do their duty. It’s because banks and insurance companies are f***ing evil Feudal lords and they want all the serfs out there toiling in the fields. Even the women folk.

We don’t have a consumer electronics epidemic that’s destroying civilization. That’s Pejorative Slured.

The banks Do play a major role in systemic consumerism. The choice to play the game does start with the consumer though. I’m not passing any judgement here, just stating what I observe.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I've never had to put my kids in daycare. The concept scares the crap out of me. So I can't really speak authoritatively on this. I'm VERY lucky. My wife and I can both work AND our children can spend the work day in the home of a grandma who loves them, and gives them one-on-one attention. If someone is getting cheated out of quality time, it's definitely my wife and I, rather than the children. They love the set up they have. haha

This used to be much more common. Our desire to have it all, willingness to separate from close family proximity and go into hock for it (all), has often eliminated the ability to do so.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Rarely are there absolutes in life. Sure, it's nice if mom or dad is home during the developmental years, but plenty of intelligent and well-adjusted kids have come from 2-income families. Conversely, some kids are with mom 24/7 yet are not raised in a manner that sets them up for success in life. Being a good parent is much more than just being in the same room.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Rarely are there absolutes in life. Sure, it's nice if mom or dad is home during the developmental years, but plenty of intelligent and well-adjusted kids have come from 2-income families. Conversely, some kids are with mom 24/7 yet are not raised in a manner that sets them up for success in life. Being a good parent is much more than just being in the same room.

Mommy dearest, Sybil..

 

[rt]

This used to be much more common. Our desire to have it all, willingness to separate from close family proximity and go into hock for it (all), has often eliminated the ability to do so.

Growing up my dad was in sales and traveled a lot. My mom was a school teacher. I spend the work days at my grandparents house, too. I liked it, if I recall correctly.

 

[Jakey53]

6 is hilariously arbitrary, so what happens at 6 that makes all the difference Jakey? I also don't understand how any parent doesn't want to be there for their child and see that first crawl, first stand up, first walk, first skinned knee etc. I also don't understand what the hell that has to do with anything? Are you under the impression that a parent using daycare is automatically excluded from said milestones? Can you not conceive of part time, or maybe after age 2, a few days a week, etc.? And again with the ridiculous notion that people use daycare so they can get a big houses and new cars, I'm sorry but that is just stupid, that's rarely how that works. I think you have this picture in your mind of a certain kind of person and you're raging against them but not thinking about how relatively rare that person is in the grand scheme of things.

As for talking out your ass, it's not because you're concerned about kids well being (that part is awesome) it's that you're making sweeping generalizations about parents who use daycare and it's that you're drawing unsubstantiated inferences about how kids who experience daycare before they're 6 will be drastically disadvantaged. So as I alluded earlier, unless you raised a pair of astronauts, you don't really have much ground to stand on here to prove your approach is somehow superior.

Six is when they start school full time. Give your kids a solid foundation. Look, you bring us your kids the way you want, it's no skin off my ass.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Growing up my dad was in sales and traveled a lot. My mom was a school teacher. I spend the work days at my grandparents house, too. I liked it, if I recall correctly.

Before my Dad started making bank, Mom and Dad worked. Two bros' and I were watched by Grandmother and Great Grandmother (on same side). Sadly my Dads Mom was killed by a drunk driver before I was born, or she would have no doubt been in on it and I would have known her.

 

[Sinurgy]

Six is when they start school full time. Give your kids a solid foundation. Look, you bring us your kids the way you want, it's no skin off my ass.

Oh geez, I knew that was coming. You think I'm over here living in a huge house, driving a Mercedes and dropping a couple of kids off at daycare everyday? I'm disagreeing with you philosophically not because you're attacking my lifestyle or something. I don't have to have kids to debate your comments just like I didn't have to lead a super unhealthy lifestyle to challenge Cobras just take vitamins speeches.

 

[Sinurgy]

The banks Do play a major role in systemic consumerism. The choice to play the game does start with the consumer though. I’m not passing any judgement here, just stating what I observe.

Reminds me of the housing crisis in 2008. The banks catch a ton of shit for it and they absolutely deserve it. Consumers did not take enough shit for it IMO. Just because the bank is being shady and approving you to buy that $500,000 house on your $60,000 a year salary doesn't mean you should actually do it. I had several disagreements with friends, family, etc. who were buying well beyond their means and don't even get me started on interest only loans or financing your down payment. Shady and predatory banks combined with willfully ignorant consumers created quite the mess.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Reminds me of the housing crisis in 2008. The banks catch a ton of shit for it and they absolutely deserve it. Consumers did not take enough shit for it IMO. Just because the bank is being shady and approving you to buy that $500,000 house on your $60,000 a year salary doesn't mean you should actually do it. I had several disagreements with friends, family, etc. who were buying well beyond their means and don't even get me started on interest only loans or financing your down payment. Shady and predatory banks combined with willfully ignorant consumers created quite the mess.

After reading The Big Short, I'm convinced the ratings agencies should have received more public ridicule. They are supposed to be the honest broker that says "sorry, these CDOs are not investment grade.". Without the AAA rating fewer debt bundles are sold, and therefore fewer liar loan mortgages are issued.

 

[Sinurgy]

After reading The Big Short, I'm convinced the ratings agencies should have received more public ridicule. They are supposed to be the honest broker that says "sorry, these CDOs are not investment grade.". Without the AAA rating fewer debt bundles are sold, and therefore fewer liar loan mortgages are issued.

Absolutely, there's a lot of blame to go around. I hate the human inclination to make things either or.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Absolutely, there's a lot of blame to go around. I hate the human inclination to make things either or.

What's crazy is that the problem still exists. Investment banks bundle all kinds of debt and pay a ratings agency (huge conflict of interest) to assign an investment grade. If the ratings agency doesn't give the bank what they want, the bank takes their business to someone who will. Congress bailing out the banks last time created enormous moral hazard. There is too much reward and too little downside when it blows up...which is just a matter of time.