Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 79,229
- 54,520
Meh, I'll continue going to Buffalo and Ottawa like a real Leaf fan.
Most real Leafs fans just watch on TV or go to the bar with their pals.
Meh, I'll continue going to Buffalo and Ottawa like a real Leaf fan.
If all that mattered in this world was work-ethic or hard work Tim Brent would be a first line centre. He isn't. Either way, Sidney Crosby probably works harder than Tim Brent anyways.They are separate issues because sushi isn't a wealthy person's food anymore, and the wealthy have been getting better seats for decades. His complaint towards the suits and sushi is misguided because his real issue is with the bigger system as a whole, which just so happens to affect the average fan more than the wealthy corporate elite. Sure, indirectly they're responsible for helping perpetuate the problem, but the options are conform or become an outsider most likely to struggle.
I don't think anyone resents their wealth as much as the hording of resources and opportunities that go into a winner-take-all system. He feels frustrated because there's very little opportunity to ever reach that level because success isn't correlated with hard-work. Ridiculing the working class and making baseless claims about their work-ethic only fans the flames because the average worker probably works harder than most suits, especially relative to their compensation.
I don't think you can label all suits under a single umbrella term, anyway. The majority don't make any more than teachers, paramedics or a successful carpenter. Most get perks that are written off at the expense of tax-dollars which could go towards social programs that help others. I suspect that's his real issue. Like it or not, it has very little to do with being jealous of their wealth. If making money to afford the tickets were a matter of hard work, most people would simply just work harder. Most fans don't have that option, as they're already working hard and scraping by.
I don't think there's any well thought out, nuanced social critique coming from the OP, other than thinking, "lower bowl = Gordon Gekko = bad" and the genuine Leafs fan is some kind of working class Martin Sheen hero, if we were to use an outdated, Wall Street analogy.
Simply an us vs them, outdated notion of class and socioeconomic hierarchy, disregarding the reality of things like the proletarianization of white collar workers, or even what corporations do with their seasons tickets. Sometimes they're just giving them out as a thank you to their staff.
Meh, I'll continue going to Buffalo and Ottawa like a real Leaf fan.
You aren't special because you can't afford to go to Leafs games and neither am I. What a load of ****.
Perhaps not well-thought out, but that likely has to do with not having the right vocabulary to conceptualize his thoughts into a coherent idea.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's outdated notion of class and socioeconomic hierarchy. Technology may change from generation to generation, but the general trend stemming from wealth accumulation is no different. Lower social mobility.
Lol, it was a joke, relax.
I've been to plenty of games at the acc.
And sadly the atmosphere amongst Leaf fans is much better in both those buildings
ott and buff are ok, i strongly recommend a trip to dallas if you ever get the chance
had a blast, cowboy game too the day before
Heh, my bad. Hard to tell sometimes (there are some real pieces of work here).
If all that mattered in this world was work-ethic or hard work Tim Brent would be a first line centre. He isn't. Either way, Sidney Crosby probably works harder than Tim Brent anyways.
The average worker doesn't work harder than most "suits", what a laugh.
That's completely irrelevant and blatantly obvious. Thanks tips.That's naive conservative propaganda. Wealth and status provide better education, networking opportunities, nutrition, and a lower stress environment at key developmental stages. Go read up on your sociology and anthropology.
That's naive conservative propaganda. Wealth and status provide better education, networking opportunities, nutrition, and a lower stress environment at key developmental stages. Go read up on your sociology and anthropology.
Aside from the fact that most suits are on the lower-end of the financial spectrum, most are not working harder than carpenters, paramedics, nurses, doctors, chefs, teachers, or even that single mother who has to work 2-3 jobs to barely pay the bills. You'll always have hard working corporate executives, but on average, they don't work as hard as the people who need to do so to actually put food on the table.
Don't mistake sitting in meetings or in front of a computer screen all day to work ethic when it's the market value that determines their salaries.
That's completely irrelevant and blatantly obvious. Thanks tips.
Irrelevant to the point I'm making, which is that the "average worker" doesn't work harder than a suit. Longer hours, bigger workloads, and far more stress involved. It also plenty of work to get the necessary qualifications for such jobs in the first place.
A babby's first leftist speech on lack of equal opportunities is irrelevant to the point you made which I objected to.
Which part? None of it was accurate.
I'm in the lower end myself and cannot agree with you. Sure there are some who luck into it, but in most cases I would argue that those who have achieved great success have worked their ***** off to get there.
All he stated was that the general working class does not always work harder. There is nothing incorrect in that.
It's only irrelevant if you're unable to see the connection between the two.
You didn't really make a point. You just made a statement. Long hours does not automatically equate to hard or stressful work. I realize being at the office for 10 hours on a regular basis is mentally exhausting, but try working in a hospital or a mental institute. Or the physical demand that comes with being a tradesmen. I understand that getting the educational requirements are demanding as well, and that's an excellent point. But you know what? So is every other degree. Just ask the life science or social science students at a university. Hell, afterward I went to college for paramedic school, and that was one of the most stressful and difficult programs I've ever experienced.
And actually, a young adult's neurological development is directly correlated to the nutrition/stress levels it puts in their body. The brain doesn't actually stop developing. If a child's parents are struggling, the consequences are likely to trickle down into their offspring.
Believe it or not, the less well-off and their work ethic are not the architect of their problems.
Which part? The part about the lower bowl being half empty for the first 10 minutes of each period...
Of course the whole sushi/cocktail bar references, and the OP's "socialist" solution of forcing lower bowl ticket holders to give their seats to real fans can not be a possible solution to our situation... but the real problem the OP is addressing is most certainly legitimate and accurate.
It is impossible to argue (unless you just enjoy arguing for some random reason) that there is not an issue currently with filling those lower bowl seats while the game is actually in session. I go to TONS of leafs games (whether you believe me or not is entirely up to you obviously), and I have also noticed that this problem of fans not taking their seats, specifically in the lower bowl, during the game, has developed into an actual issue.
No, he said they don't work harder. Not that they don't always work harder. Always is the operative word.
All I'm stating is that the general corporate class doesn't work any harder than the general working class. It's not a matter of pulling up the old bootstraps because it's not about merit or hard work anymore unless you're an outlier in productivity.
Knowledgeable, and grossly engaged. To me the lack of crowd noise while play is ongoing is mostly just the crowd at large paying very close attention. Where there ought to be noise, there's noise.
It is not solely about merit or hard work, you ought to say. Disregarding them entirely is a generalization, I would think.
If you go to tons of games you'd know the bolded isn't true, as well as pretty much everything the OP mentions.
That's a great way to go about completely discrediting my post, but I'll just throw the exact same type of reasoning right back at you. It seems to me that you are the one who does not go to Leafs games for you would then be able to understand the problem we are talking about.
Yep. I don't always read over posts before I submit.
What is the problem then? It can't be that the place is "50% empty for the 1st 10 minutes" because that's not true.
Even in the silly picture shown to prove this, it's more than half full. Perhaps exaggerating the issue is the problem.
Exaggerating the issue may be a problem, I will agree with you there, the 50% is out of proportion... But at least you are recognizing that there is an issue to some extent with filling those seats, and I'll just end it at that.