The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[truthbluth]

Or, hear me out, and I know this seems so out there; this is just how Kevyn manages his cap and his timeline is different than the fans, and Pegula has agreed to it as he trusts Kevyn. If Pegula is in it for the long haul, what's the rush in Pegula's eyes for creating what he has been convinced of, will be a long term stable organization.

By the time the youth movement reaches its apex, Thompson, Tuch and maybe even Dahlin will be on the downside of their careers.

 

[OkimLom]

By the time the youth movement reaches its apex, Thompson, Tuch and maybe even Dahlin will be on the downside of their careers.

And if that happens, then that is an indictment of the incompetency on Adam's ability to execute his plan.

I was just touching upon the claims from posters of what they say is happening, and I haven't seen any observable evidence of their claims to be the case.

 

[Tatanka]

I'm not saying it's a smart idea or supporting said decision.

Didn’t say you were. Just pointing out that while you might be correct, the emperor is still naked and his fashionista is the only one he trusts to tell him how good he looks. Not a good place for the organization

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

I would assert that Kim‘s presence makes no difference to their spending. Terry was out of big spendingonce they bought the NFL team. That was before Kim‘s health crisis. She was still president of the whole Kit N Caboodle at that point.

Lets not forget that she was the one who presented the "Maintain Family Lifestyle" as aPSE pillar to a room full of PSE employees.


(I don't mean to kick her while she is down. It is just a relevant piece the Sabres spending story)

 

[Chainshot]

By the time the youth movement reaches its apex, Thompson, Tuch and maybe even Dahlin will be on the downside of their careers.

This is the same sort of thinking that had people justifying dealing away Ryan O'Reilly who (shockingly) is still a very good hockey player 7 years later.

 

[truthbluth]

This is the same sort of thinking that had people justifying dealing away Ryan O'Reilly who (shockingly) is still a very good hockey player 7 years later.

My conclusion here a quite the opposite. Need to bring in veterans.

 

[Ehran]

Plus, Kim reportedly had a nickname in the building that was about firing people, so yeah...

Oh come on.... you can't post something like this and then leave us hanging!!

Dish it already!!!!

 

[Chainshot]

Oh come on.... you can't post something like this and then leave us hanging!!

Dish it already!!!!

By her own comments here - Bills, Sabres co-owner Kim Pegula: Impact of diversity felt throughout organizations

...it was "black widow".

 

[Ygo88]

Ignoring quinn, the draft part is still relevant for me because it highlights some intrinsic skillsets.

I thought cozens had hockey IQ issues before we even drafted him, so it's not simply a matter of hating on guys we pick (and I'll acknowledge this is my opinion, not universal truth). IMO it's his decision making that continues to ail him, and while the roster might not be giving him much help, he's sort of shown the same flaws for years which makes me think it's more than a roster issue.

A guy like Rossi isn't perfect. Smaller than cozens, not as fast, probably not as aggressive, but I think there's a chance that he could have a more positive impact on this team, because I think he's smarter. Again, his intelligence is a reputation preceding his draft. I think it could be an inherent strength which could be useful on this team. Of course, being on a better team with better linemates will help hide his weaknesses and highlight strengths, I just don't think thats the only explanation of the difference between the two players.

The Cozens pick was fine (top 10 on every list)! And he is a fine player and will be a good power forward in the league. He was rushed to the NHL, because the roster is garbage, like it is every year. That is why Benson is in the NHL now. Rossi and Quinn were both older draftees (which along with stature drew the question marks) with strong skating and high IQ. Rossi has always been considered a true Center, not sure if that is the point of the debate or not???

Root Cause: Crappy roster/No depth = young guys on team and not developing properly. That is why Cozens was on the roster so young. That is why Benson is on the roster now (last year notwithstanding) - and I love what Benson brings, but at what cost to his development???

 

[Chainshot]

I’m assuming there’s no talk of McCann because of the limited NTC? He is an Ontario guy so maybe there’s a chance. I realize he isn’t a true center but he’s the kind of veteran presence we need regardless.

McCann is almost always a left winger though. The Jets reporter tweeting out about him playing center seems like a rare, situational occurrence, not the norm.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Or, hear me out, and I know this seems so out there; this is just how Kevyn manages his cap and his timeline is different than the fans, and Pegula has agreed to it as he trusts Kevyn. If Pegula is in it for the long haul, what's the rush in Pegula's eyes for creating what he has been convinced of, will be a long term stable organization.

I believe that KA already stated that he thought the team was in a "win-now" mode. He's not thinking the team is still in a build up mode, and that he just needs time if Pegula is willing to wait him out. Obviously any team is building to some extent every season, but KA said it himself that it was time to win. Between Pegula limiting his options, and KA responding with a heavy youth movement (if not a complete youth movement) that he believes can still compete under those "efficient" guidelines, the entire organization has totally failed at assessing the roster.

I sat here pissing off most of this board last summer saying TT and Cozens were not good enough to be the top-six Cs (in response to the Mitts trade). Most if not all of this board has posted the need for a top-four RHD and more defensive D-men in general for at least three years. Many of us including me posted that Levi needed time in Rochester. A collection of random internet hockey fans have been more accurate in assessing the roster than KA et al. The depths of the incompetence go beyond KA's lack of knowledge and experience, into an organization-wide plan to operate at low expense. I think it's time that the vast majority of Sabres fans stop trying to ignore and waive away what is very painful to have to admit. They're a joke franchise now, run by a joke owner, that has hired joke front office personnel for all the wrong reasons.

 

[TehDoak]

I believe that KA already stated that he thought the team was in a "win-now" mode. He's not thinking the team is still in a build up mode, and that he just needs time if Pegula is willing to wait him out. Obviously any team is building to some extent every season, but KA said it himself that it was time to win. Between Pegula limiting his options, and KA responding with a heavy youth movement (if not a complete youth movement) that he believes can still compete under those "efficient" guidelines, the entire organization has totally failed at assessing the roster.

I sat here pissing off most of this board last summer saying TT and Cozens were not good enough to be the top-six Cs (in response to the Mitts trade). Most if not all of this board has posted the need for a top-four RHD and more defensive D-men in general for at least three years. Many of us including me posted that Levi needed time in Rochester. A collection of random internet hockey fans have been more accurate in assessing the roster than KA et al. The depths of the incompetence go beyond KA's lack of knowledge and experience, into an organization-wide plan to operate at low expense. I think it's time that the vast majority of Sabres fans stop trying to ignore and waive away what is very painful to have to admit. They're a joke franchise now, run by a joke owner, that has hired joke front office personnel for all the wrong reasons.

I think Adams opinion on what the teams needs will shift with whatever Lindy says the team needs.

Consider his biggest 'purchases' as a GM:

Taylor Hall: Previous relationship with Krueger
Greenway: Previous relationship with Granato
McLeod: Ruff coached his brother in NJ

Adams isn't coming up with a shopping list on his own. I think, behind closed doors, the planning is very much being done by committee (including the owner), with the head coach having probably a pretty strong voice. Terry even mentioned it on hiring Adams, that the 'three of us (meaning Krueger, Adams, and himself) could figure it out'

 

[OkimLom]

View attachment 976243
The Cozens pick was fine (top 10 on every list)! And he is a fine player and will be a good power forward in the league. He was rushed to the NHL, because the roster is garbage, like it is every year. That is why Benson is in the NHL now. Rossi and Quinn were both older draftees (which along with stature drew the question marks) with strong skating and high IQ. Rossi has always been considered a true Center, not sure if that is the point of the debate or not???

Root Cause: Crappy roster/No depth = young guys on team and not developing properly. That is why Cozens was on the roster so young. That is why Benson is on the roster now (last year notwithstanding) - and I love what Benson brings, but at what cost to his development???

He was rushed to the NHL because the GM felt that development at the NHL level was the correct decision for him, Quinn, and Peterka and any lumps and flaws would be developed out of their game, with the expectations that they would make mistakes at a time the organization can afford them make them.

The quality of the roster had nothing to do with it.

 

[Irie]

McCann is almost always a left winger though. The Jets reporter tweeting out about him playing center seems like a rare, situational occurrence, not the norm.

His metrics in Pittsburgh at center were pretty stellar, and a lot of Pitt fans commented on how well he did, but apparently Sullivan didn't give him much of a chance there.

As for with the Kraken, I've watched the majority of their games, and he honestly was more involved at center than the games he played on the wing imo in season one, but Hakstol juggled lines every single game and the lack of quality wingers back then meant that McCann was one of the few threats to play wing in the top six, especially after Schwartz went down. His time at center early while Gourde was out was honestly night and day better than Wennberg, or Johansson, but Hakstol insisted on playing them as the 1 and 2 for most of the season. I know, low bar, but he did look good. And you are right, he hasn't played much center since Beniers arrived.

 

[toddkaz]

Without counting Samuelsson because he is injured so often is there any doubt this team has the worst 5-6-7 defense in the league?

There can't be worse than Joker, Gilbert and Bryson. Don't get me wrong I think Bryson is a fine #7-8 guy but Gilbert has played 20 games and Bryson 33.

If you want to know why this team sucks so bad look no further than Bryson, Gilbert and Joker.

All 3 are free agents after this season and I pray we do not resign them.

Even if you put Clifton and Samuelsson in the mix its still awful.

 

[Chainshot]

Without counting Samuelsson because he is injured so often is there any doubt this team has the worst 5-6-7 defense in the league?

There can't be worse than Joker, Gilbert and Bryson. Don't get me wrong I think Bryson is a fine #7-8 guy but Gilbert has played 20 games and Bryson 33.

If you want to know why this team sucks so bad look no further than Bryson, Gilbert and Joker.

All 3 are free agents after this season and I pray we do not resign them.

Even if you put Clifton and Samuelsson in the mix its still awful.

The issue seems to be more that D2-4 are not good defensive players. There is far more juice in the squeeze with getting something better at one of those spots. Power getting his ass handed to him every night in his own zone and he's over 1200 minutes of TOI on the year has way more to do with this team being shit than any of the depth defensemen.

 

[joshjull]

I still agree that a better roster helps. Quinn/cozens insulated with better linemates maybe doesn't cure their flaws but allows their strengths to outweigh negatives and look better overall. But to me, it's definitely a "maybe" and I'm still pretty far from being willing set aside the idea that one player might just be better, or better for us.

Swap cozens/Quinn with Rossi and I have no doubt our guys score more and he scores less than now. But do we give up fewer goals off of turnovers, have a more complete game? I think we might

I had to answer this part separately. Something happened with my initial post.

There’s no “maybe” about it. The guy currently getting insulated by a large group of very experienced vets who are good defensively is Rossi. The idea he could come here and move the needle in any meaningful way defensively is not realistic. Thats not an indictment of him but of what he would be surrounded by here vs in Minny. I don’t think you fully appreciate the difference.

The top 9 forwards and top 4 dmen groups on each team.

TOP 9 FORWARDS

Minny
-only 2 youngsters (Rossi/Boldy).
-By youngsters I mean 24yrs old (Boldy/Cozens draft) or younger.
-The other 7 are 27 or older and 5 of them are 30 or older

Sabres
-We’ve had 4-6 youngsters in the top 9 at various points of the season.
-2 of them are only 19 and 20yrs old.
-At most we can dress 4 guys 27 or older (Zucker/Tuch/Tage/Greenway) with 25yr old McLeod as another “vet”. Only one is 30 or older (Zucker).

As a group, Minny’s top 9 is much better defensively and are WAY more experienced than our group.

TOP 4 DMEN

Minny
-Only one youngster (Faber)
-The other 3 dmen are 29, 29 and 35yrs old

Sabres
-Our entire top 4 is 24yrs or younger.
- Unless 25yr old Joker in the mix due to Sammy being injured.

We do have the best individual talent with Dahlin. But overall Minny’s top 4 is better defensively and much more experienced.

——————————————————————————

Overall Minny only has 3 young players in the 13 spots that make up their top 9 forwards/top 4 dmen. Whereas we’re rolling out 8-10 skaters 24yrs or younger, that includes our entire top 4 dmen. Thats an enormous difference in experience.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

No rumors ? So boring, nothing happens

 

[joshjull]

This is a controversial path, we need not only vets, but also good and productive players. Also, the problem with most vets is NTC/NMC and they do not go to Buffalo. Which players like Rossi do not have.

What’s controversial about it? I’m also aware of the NTC/NMC issue we’ll run into.

But there is a sweat spot of players we should target. Those who are 25/26yrs old with 4-6yrs of experience and not eligible for a no trade clause yet. They may have 1 or 2yrs of team control left or maybe they’re already extended. A recent high profile example of a player like this is Elias Pettersson.

EDIT: Obviously if we could grab guys older than that we should. But that would be harder due to the NTC/NMC issue.

 

[jc17]

What’s controversial about it? I’m also aware of the NTC/NMC issue we’ll run into.

But there is a sweat spot of players we should target. Those who are 25/26yrs old with 4-6yrs of experience and not eligible for a no trade clause yet. They may have 1 or 2yrs of team control left or maybe they’re already extended. A recent high profile example of a player like this is Elias Pettersson.

EDIT: Obviously if we could grab guys older than that we should. But that would be harder due to the NTC/NMC issue.

For anyone interested here's forwards between 24-27 with no trade protection, 150+ games in past 3 years, and cumulative 5v5+PP goals above replacement over past 3 years. Apologies in advance for the big graphic. combo of puckpedia and evolving hockey

 

[Chainshot]

Michael Rasmussen with that GAR... still wonder if that was driving the interest in the Cozens deal.

 

[Fjordsen]

What’s controversial about it? I’m also aware of the NTC/NMC issue we’ll run into.

But there is a sweat spot of players we should target. Those who are 25/26yrs old with 4-6yrs of experience and not eligible for a no trade clause yet. They may have 1 or 2yrs of team control left or maybe they’re already extended. A recent high profile example of a player like this is Elias Pettersson.

EDIT: Obviously if we could grab guys older than that we should. But that would be harder due to the NTC/NMC issue.

Because apart from Pettersson there probably isn't a better more or less realistic top 6 C than Rossi, that's the problem. And Pettersson is not on the table right now.

 

[Steddy33]

Michael Rasmussen with that GAR... still wonder if that was driving the interest in the Cozens deal.

Yup

 

[debaser66]

Kevyn plans to build a contender by 2030-31....

if he has any talent he will learn it evantually if he gets as much time as Darcy

 

[debaser66]

Because apart from Pettersson there probably isn't a better more or less realistic top 6 C than Rossi, that's the problem. And Pettersson is not on the table right now.

He is a top6 talent but I am not sure its wise to add a smallish player especially at C. 5"9 is really tiny.