The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

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So maybe they are angry with them, I think they are angry, they just won’t tell it to the press, but they will tell it in the locker room.
Should be an on the bench thing, not locker room discussion.

imagine makar gets run. Would you want to be the guy sitting next to MacKinnon? I'm guessing the message would be clear.

I don't buy the coach saying don't respond, and even if he did maybe you don't go out and take a penalty but you sure as hell finish your checks which was obviously not a team wide thing
 
Yeah I don't know. All the years I played football as a RB, WR, and PR/KR, I took a shit ton of hits. I got off on laughing at guys who thought they smoked me out of the game. I'd just go back out on defense and lay into someone else. Put a guy out of a game myself but you know what...I felt bad and gave him a atta boy after the game. I love hitting, clean hitting, but I just never got butt hurt enough to fight over it. It's part of the game so if you're willing to take the field, that's what you should expect. Just me though, and I admit I'm a bit different in some ways.

Idk..it's just a feeling. I don't think the player that gets smoked should get up and fight. But a teammate .. stepping in .. there is something to be said for that.
 
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Yeah I don't know. All the years I played football as a RB, WR, and PR/KR, I took a shit ton of hits. I got off on laughing at guys who thought they smoked me out of the game. I'd just go back out on defense and lay into someone else. Put a guy out of a game myself but you know what...I felt bad and gave him a atta boy after the game. I love hitting, clean hitting, but I just never got butt hurt enough to fight over it. It's part of the game so if you're willing to take the field, that's what you should expect. Just me though, and I admit I'm a bit different in some ways.
Maybe I'm not following the whole discussion but it seems like you keep talking about big clean hits which wasn't the case yesterday.

Njd didn't " think" they smoked tage out of a game, they did, with a cheap shot
 
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Should be an on the bench thing, not locker room discussion.

imagine makar gets run. Would you want to be the guy sitting next to MacKinnon? I'm guessing the message would be clear.

I don't buy the coach saying don't respond, and even if he did maybe you don't go out and take a penalty but you sure as hell finish your checks which was obviously not a team wide thing
Well yeah and now you want to keep Sammy, after that and blame the leaders, Although he also wears "A" and was there on the ice and didn't do a damn thing to Noesen. I don't agree with you.



Is that accurate?

Well...

giphy.gif
 
Maybe I'm not following the whole discussion but it seems like you keep talking about big clean hits which wasn't the case yesterday.

Njd didn't " think" they smoked tage out of a game, they did, with a cheap shot
Earlier I made a distinction between the two - clean vs dirty, but a few posters don't think that should matter. I was just expounding on that a bit.
 
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To be fair he did lay out a Devil with a beauty hit later in game

It was the only physical play by any Sabre after the hit IIRC. Still not enough - he should go back to trying to be that guy but he's probably afraid he'll trip over his own feet and wind up on IR... again.
 
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It was the only physical play by any Sabre after the hit IIRC. Still not enough - he should go back to trying to be that guy but he's probably afraid he'll trip over his own feet and wind up on IR... again.
Cozens hit a wall real hard trying to line up a man behind his net.

Does that count?

Closest he’s been to doing f*** all in god knows how long.
 
We shouldn't keep players in the team just because sometimes they are physical, it's just wrong. Replace them with other good players, vets, simply better players. Finding physical players is not hard if you are not an idiot, they are everywhere, the question is how well they play.
 
I’ve been saying for a while I want to see Byram get the Joker/Samuelsson partner treatment before we decide to send Power to his inevitable cup run. Playing with Dahlin tells me nothing except that we might be overpaying someone who can’t run their own pair.

I know people hate Power. But those same people are banking on massive unknowns with Byram. Who I don’t think is as good a player
 
I’ve been saying for a while I want to see Byram get the Joker/Samuelsson partner treatment before we decide to send Power to his inevitable cup run. Playing with Dahlin tells me nothing except that we might be overpaying someone who can’t run their own pair.

I know people hate Power. But those same people are banking on massive unknowns with Byram. Who I don’t think is as good a player
Byram said he didn't feel comfortable playing the right side

If Adams knew how to build defense instead of 5 LHD to play together and had a mentor for Power maybe advance stats would look different.

But Adams is incapable. Dahlin, Sammy, Power, Byram, Bryson, Gilbert all LHD.

Total clown show.
 
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Evolving Hockey says it looks a bit different.
View attachment 971899
View attachment 971900
Well, as I thought, Dahlin carries other defenseman on his sick back, so we don't need both Power and Byram, there's just no point in it. Imagine how much more useful someone like Gavrikov would be in this top 4 than Byram.

Byram said he didn't feel comfortable playing the right side

If Adams knew how to build defense instead of 5 LHD to play together and had a mentor for Power maybe advance stats would look different.

But Adams is incapable. Dahlin, Sammy, Power, Byram, Bryson, Gilbert all LHD.

Total clown show.
In fact, Dahlin can play RD well, yesterday I specifically watched the pair Dahlin - Byram and here's what I noticed, they sometimes change places, but in his zone Byram most often plays as RD, in the opponent's zone Dahlin most often plays as RD, especially when there is a face-off.
 
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We don’t need Dahlin sitting in the box for 5 minutes at any point.

Why not? What is going to happen? We’ll miss the playoffs?

Or…..Dahlin instantly elevates himself as a leader in the dressing toom?

I’m not blaming Dahlin at all but I think there was an opportunity missed yesterday that was a hell of a lot more important than 2 points to a cellar dwelling team.
 
Why not? What is going to happen? We’ll miss the playoffs?

Or…..Dahlin instantly elevates himself as a leader in the dressing toom?

I’m not blaming Dahlin at all but I think there was an opportunity missed yesterday that was a hell of a lot more important than 2 points to a cellar dwelling team.
He responded and get call in the first period, it's not a problem, he did the right thing, we need more aggression, the problem is that more than half the team doesn't want or can't respond. Dahlin and Benson will always respond or stand up for their teammate, there are other players, but there are a lot of players who won't do anything.
 
Why not? What is going to happen? We’ll miss the playoffs?

Or…..Dahlin instantly elevates himself as a leader in the dressing toom?

I’m not blaming Dahlin at all but I think there was an opportunity missed yesterday that was a hell of a lot more important than 2 points to a cellar dwelling team.
Or get injured, because we really want Dahlin breaking a hand throwing a punch.
 
Or get injured, because we really want Dahlin breaking a hand throwing a punch.
It's not necessary to fight. Yesterday Rasmus got elbowed in the face and he didn't respond with a fight, he just threw a Devils player onto the ice. But we really lack a guy who will fight, Greenway, unfortunately, is often injured.
 
Looking at NST's data on the Sabres D- pairs for when Dahlin was out in December is fascinating with 27 different pairs over those 7 games, looking at 5-on-5 data. Reducing that to a field of just say, minimum of 5 minutes played together, weeds it down to 14. Sorting it around by some metrics, their best pair in that time was Bryson-Byram despite getting only 30% OZS:

Defensive Pairs - Natural Stat Trick

Power-Samuelsson got knocked around a lot, so did Byram-Johnson.
They're almost deadlocked in CF% and HDC% with Jokiharju as their partner. Power had the Joke that kills for 53:32, Byram had him for 39:47.
Bryson didn't play at all with Power at 5-on-5 in that 7 game stretch. Byram and he were paired for 28:37.
Samuelsson didn't play at all with Byram at 5-on-5 in that 7 game stretch. Power and he were paired for 46:40, second only to Jokiharj-Power's 53:32 for consistency in that stretch.

Byram got good results out of time with Bryson while Power got good results out of time with Clifton (5:28) based on CF and HDC's but while they didn't get scored on with either, neither did they generate any goals. Those are really small samples however.

Byram with Clifton and Bryson had better stats in terms of HDC% than I was expecting to see.

Jokiharju as their partner resulted in pretty similar fancy stats in that stretch. Interesting to parse that out.

Looking at all of the pairs for the whole season -


Some fun things in that the defense are generally winning or at least even in the GF/GA battle for most of the pairs. Wildly, the three worst differentials at 5-on-5 there are Clifton-Sammy with 4 for and 8 against, then Power with Dahlin with 3 for and 6 against and Bryson with Power for 3 for and 6 against. Also funny how both Power and Byram with Cliffy win the HDC game.

Feel free to poke around. It isn't just a Samuelsson thing that is holding Power back. And it isn't just a Dahlin thing that is propping Byram up.

I would say that it seems their complimentary pieces don't fit and it's easy to see where they are getting less than they expected (YET AGAIN) out of their supposed 2nd line of forwards and aren't scoring enough to overcome some shoddy goaltending (their goals saved above expected is in the tank per Moneypuck) and that they still don't get enough support out of the forwards at either end of the rink.

Heh.

Basically Dahlin is way, way outperforming the rest of the defense and it might work best to yet again try to find him an ideal partner while letting Power-Byram be the offensive start pair going forward. That then leaves them with the dubious job of either revamping their third pair.

TL/DR - the defense isn't just a product of one bad or one good player.

There is no simple fix.
 
No matter the partner and no matter the "results" on the ice as far as fancy stats... when you watch Byram and when you watch Power i5 isn't hard to figure out which one is playing the right way and which one isn't...

Power will never be an adequate defensive player..he doesn't even try to do the basics. We may get burned by his offensive numbers that he ends up putting up but he is always going to be a train wreck defensively. If Byram is open to a sensible contract i don't think there is any question as to who you keep.
 
Cozens being a dufus and going outside of his weight class without being prepared and getting his face broken is about it. They don't go very often.

Right.

And I’m not even saying it had to be Dahlin to do it. But if he did, like I said, some actions on the ice are more important than two points.
 
He did get concussed by KK from the Canes i think..or maybe broken nose.

Think the last player to break hand in fight was Tage if I remember correctly

His wrist injury was due to a shot block (and McAvoy kicking him in the skate boot). He has had a couple of tilts - the one where he and Nielsen are punching one another down on the ice remains a vivid memory for me. But I don't think he's broken a hand in any.
 
No matter the partner and no matter the "results" on the ice as far as fancy stats... when you watch Byram and when you watch Power i5 isn't hard to figure out which one is playing the right way and which one isn't...

Power will never be an adequate defensive player..he doesn't even try to do the basics. We may get burned by his offensive numbers that he ends up putting up but he is always going to be a train wreck defensively. If Byram is open to a sensible contract i don't think there is any question as to who you keep.
In fact, trading both might have been the best decision. Byram plays with Dahlin and is completely dependent on him, and I'm not sure he can carry his own pair. And we don't even need Byram next to Dahlin, almost anyone can be there and thrive, a more defensive guy for example, or just a complementary player like Fabbro.
 

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