The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

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The question is whether Vancouver wants them?

Do they view Cozens as a center that just needs a change of scenery? Or, do they view him as a player that got overpaid off of one season with an unsustainably high shooting% and huge questions about his hockey IQ?

Do they view Byram as a solid top 4 guy? Or, do they view him as a guy that needs a very specific role and partner and thus don't value him that highly?

It seems like we spend a lot of time looking at the warts of players when they are on the Sabres and then somehow overlook them all when we want to include them in trade packages.
These questions are meaningless because we don't know how they value our players. We may value them this way, and another GM may value them that way, and another GM may value them that way. We have different assets and almost any player should be available for such a trade. We simply have no information and this is fortune telling on coffee grounds.
 
I remember there always being expectations that Cozens would become a strong two way center but I'm not sure where those expectations came from.

He's always had bad defensive metrics despite his deployment being skewed toward the offensive zone. He's just not that guy. He was good in transition and had one season where his offense outweighed his poor defense.

I'm not saying trade him away for picks and prospects though. There's still hope he could become an effective winger here. Two way center, though? Probably not happening. If we don't want to wait for Helenius we need to acquire one.
Because that’s what he was in juniors and what he was projected to be in the NHL. He should have been developed to be a Jordan Staal type of center. Instead he was developed to be an Eric Staal type, which is a skill set he doesn’t possess.

Granato never tried to develop him as a matchup or shutdown center. He didn’t even use one and told his players to not worry about f***ing up. Not exactly the environment For any player to grow the defensive game at the NHL level, let alone groom a defensive center.
 
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The question is whether Vancouver wants them?

Do they view Cozens as a center that just needs a change of scenery? Or, do they view him as a player that got overpaid off of one season with an unsustainably high shooting% and huge questions about his hockey IQ?

Do they view Byram as a solid top 4 guy? Or, do they view him as a guy that needs a very specific role and partner and thus don't value him that highly?

It seems like we spend a lot of time looking at the warts of players when they are on the Sabres and then somehow overlook them all when we want to include them in trade packages.
Conversely other teams see the track record of players who leave this cesspool of an organization and go on to great heights so they will be far more willing to overlook flaws with the idea the idiot organization is the problem.
 
Larkin… thougb Detroit wouldn’t
I'd be some something less than Larkin. I think Larkin is a Detroit lifer. He's untouchable.
I don’t think Adams is trading Power so it’s a moot point. If he did, he’d be down to two top-4 D, and he already needed a half decade to find a third one, so I don’t think he can really trade any of the D without one coming back.


Then where are you finding two more top 4 defensemen? We’re already short and can’t afford to lose any without a replacement.

Edit:
Okay, since everyone wants to trade Power, let’s at least come up with a package that gets us a defense dman back, to at least have one RHD to pair with Dahlin or Byram at ES?

Power + Cozens + 2nd

For

Pettersson + Juulsen


I know NJ is UFA at the end of the season, but I’d do this to get a jump on talks with him. He’s worth the rental price that we’re paying. Eats defensive minutes on the right - not perfect but he can play ES on the 2nd pair.
Finding a top 4 defenseman is a lot easier than a top 6 center.

Assume that Adams moves Power for a center. Andersson is reportedly available for a 1st, prospect, and then something more (player/prospect). Weegar could be acquired. There are a bunch of top 4 D capable D coming up in free agency.

Sure, one problem creates another. But I'd much rather solve the top 4 D problem than the top 6 center problem.
 
I'd be some something less than Larkin. I think Larkin is a Detroit lifer. He's untouchable.

Finding a top 4 defenseman is a lot easier than a top 6 center.

Assume that Adams moves Power for a center. Andersson is reportedly available for a 1st, prospect, and then something more (player/prospect). Weegar could be acquired. There are a bunch of top 4 D capable D coming up in free agency.

Sure, one problem creates another. But I'd much rather solve the top 4 D problem than the top 6 center problem.
Andersson solves nothing for us. I really wish people would stop bringing him up.

Weegar on the other hand - yes give up basically whatever it takes.
 
I'd be some something less than Larkin. I think Larkin is a Detroit lifer. He's untouchable.

Finding a top 4 defenseman is a lot easier than a top 6 center.

Assume that Adams moves Power for a center. Andersson is reportedly available for a 1st, prospect, and then something more (player/prospect). Weegar could be acquired. There are a bunch of top 4 D capable D coming up in free agency.

Sure, one problem creates another. But I'd much rather solve the top 4 D problem than the top 6 center problem.
Well, we need to solve all the problems if we want to count on something. Andersson has 6 teams in his M-NTC, maybe Buffalo is not there, although who knows. But Andersson has already mentioned that he hates Vancouver and Edmonton, maybe in his M-NTC all Canadian teams for example. Weegar on the other hand has full NTC on trades and I'm not sure that he is even available.

Andersson solves nothing for us. I really wish people would stop bringing him up.

Weegar on the other hand - yes give up basically whatever it takes.
Well, not exactly. Andersson is a proven RD for the first pair, combine him with Dahlin and we will get a powerful first pair. Andersson is also insurance in case of injury to one of our PMDs, which can also be important.

Of course, first of all I would target Weegar, not Andersson, but he has full NTC on trades and may not be available.

Dahlin - Andersson
Power - physical defensive RD

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Andersson solves nothing for us. I really wish people would stop bringing him up.

Weegar on the other hand - yes give up basically whatever it takes.
Weegar isn't available and has a full NTC. Andersson is reportedly available and has a 6 team NTC.

Andersson doesn't solve all of our problems, but to say he would solve nothing is pure hyperbole. The guy is a legit first pairing RD (on a very reasonable, tradeable contract if for some reason he doesn't work out).
 
Weegar isn't available and has a full NTC. Andersson is reportedly available and has a 6 team NTC.

Andersson doesn't solve all of our problems, but to say he would solve nothing is pure hyperbole. The guy is a legit first pairing RD (on a very reasonable, tradeable contract if for some reason he doesn't work out).
Andersson would give us a top-4 that still has nobody that plays effective defense aside from Dahlin.
 
I've thought for a long time that one of the things missing in all of this is a top notch rush-stopper but seeing the data in the Power article posted the other day... it seems a single high-talent rush stopper isn't going to take away from the inability of half of the d-core from being able to contest their own blueline at even an average level.
 
Andersson solves nothing for us. I really wish people would stop bringing him up.

Weegar on the other hand - yes give up basically whatever it takes.
You're taking what I wrote too literally. Andersson is reportedly available for a package that wouldn't break most team's bank. He's a legitimate top 4 D. He's available. And not many folks are doing cheetah flips about him because top 4 D come available.

Top 6 centers rarely come available.
Well, we need to solve all the problems if we want to count on something. Andersson has 6 teams in his M-NTC, maybe Buffalo is not there, although who knows. But Andersson has already mentioned that he hates Vancouver and Edmonton, maybe in his M-NTC all Canadian teams for example. Weegar on the other hand has full NTC on trades and I'm not sure that he is even available.


Well, not exactly. Andersson is a proven RD for the first pair, combine him with Dahlin and we will get a powerful first pair. Andersson is also insurance in case of injury to one of our PMDs, which can also be important.

Of course, first of all I would target Weegar, not Andersson, but he has full NTC on trades and may not be available.

Dahlin - Andersson
Power - physical defensive RD

View attachment 960729
View attachment 960730
Buffalo isn't going to solve everything. Florida won a Cup with holes on their team. Adams needs to pick and choose what he's going to fix. Prioritize center and top 4 D, then decide where the roster can accept risk.

The worst issue a team can have is when they don't have competitive centers in the top 6. That's essentially why Buffalo began the rebuilding in 2013-2014. Teams tank for top line talent but specifically centers.

I'll gladly create a hole in the top 4 D to fix center. Then use assets to fix the D.
 
Because that’s what he was in juniors and what he was projected to be in the NHL. He should have been developed to be a Jordan Staal type of center. Instead he was developed to be an Eric Staal type, which is a skill set he doesn’t possess.

Granato never tried to develop him as a matchup or shutdown center. He didn’t even use one and told his players to not worry about f***ing up. Not exactly the environment For any player to grow the defensive game at the NHL level, let alone groom a defensive center.
There is more evidence in support of Cozens not having the hockey acumen to be a defensive Center in the NHL than there is to suggest that Granato failed in his development lol. Granato is an easy target, but there is pretty strong evidence at this point that the roster he had, just like the one Ruff has is NOT GOOD. Cozens has all the physical tools, he seems to care, and he sounds coachable. But it seems like his current coach agrees that maybe he just doesn't have it yet...

Lindy near the start of December... "Twenty some games is enough that if you can't make the read, then you gotta go to the wing" when talking about Cozens (and threw in Thompson). Right now Cozens is maybe an average offensive Center who should probably be put on the wing.

Now, if the reason he has not been scratched, or put on the wing, (thereby crippling the coach) is because the GM is trying to move him... Well, that would be the most Sabres' thing ever.
 
You're taking what I wrote too literally. Andersson is reportedly available for a package that wouldn't break most team's bank. He's a legitimate top 4 D. He's available. And not many folks are doing cheetah flips about him because top 4 D come available.

Top 6 centers rarely come available.

Buffalo isn't going to solve everything. Florida won a Cup with holes on their team. Adams needs to pick and choose what he's going to fix. Prioritize center and top 4 D, then decide where the roster can accept risk.

The worst issue a team can have is when they don't have competitive centers in the top 6. That's essentially why Buffalo began the rebuilding in 2013-2014. Teams tank for top line talent but specifically centers.

I'll gladly create a hole in the top 4 D to fix center. Then use assets to fix the D.
Florida had a very solid roster and competitiveness, good coach. But they found a lot of players for next to nothing or cheap. Even if there were holes, they were minimal. We can get two top 4 RDs, a top 6 C, and some wingers for a top 9. I have no doubt about it, but get creative like Zito did for his team.
 
Plan for the rest of the season:

1. All UFAs gone
2. Everyone that can go to Rochester goes to Rochester
3. Try to pick up some high ceiling low cost bodies that need a change of scenery to fill out the roster.

(and all this should be done by an interim GM btw....no reason to keep Adams around at this point)
 
To use a baseball analogy ….

Why keep swinging for the fences, when all we need is a double to settle our most pressing need:

Byram - Dahlin
Power - Murphy (from Chicago)

That really stabilizes our top four, and Sammy - Clifton are fine for 12 minutes a night.

We can continue to suck, look out of position, etc, or we can overspend on a simple fix NOW.
 
To use a baseball analogy ….

Why keep swinging for the fences, when all we need is a double to settle our most pressing need:

Byram - Dahlin
Power - Murphy (from Chicago)

That really stabilizes our top four, and Sammy - Clifton are fine for 12 minutes a night.

We can continue to suck, look out of position, etc, or we can overspend on a simple fix NOW.
We also don't need three lefty PMDs. I agree we need a top 4 RD, but I'd say we need two top 4 RDs and trade one of Byram/Power.

(and all this should be done by an interim GM btw....no reason to keep Adams around at this point)
But this guy is the interim GM, he's been interim for five years now, but he's still holding up, our GM's name is Terry.
 
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I agree we don’t need 3 PMD but moving Byram (I doubt they’d trade Power) is not a quick, easy, simple move….he needs to be a hockey trade for a center, and that’s not gonna happen until the summer.

So quick fix and stabilize our D NOW with picks, or a prospect, or Krebs, Lafferty, etc.
 
Nah. Dahlin plays much much better on the right side than the left. So having 3 LHD in the top 4 really isn't an issue IMO.
Yeah I dont get this non-stop worry about the '3LD PMD' and the desire to move 1 of them when Dahlin is a better RD. I love the idea of Bo-Dahls continuing to age and grow together to form a dynamic duo...Just get OP that damn vet stay at home guy already. There's room for all 3, even if Bo gets a nice deal.
 
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Yeah I dont get this non-stop worry about the '3LD PMD' and the desire to move 1 of them when Dahlin is a better RD. I love the idea of Bo-Dahls continuing to age and grow together to form a dynamic duo...Just get OP that damn vet stay at home guy already. There's room for all 3, even if Bo gets a nice deal.
Maybe Bo and Ras can be a dynamic duo. Personally, I'd rather both Power and Dahlin have a more defensive oriented (veteran) partner.
 
JT Miller likely to be the one traded and not EP Rasmus Andersson not up for trade.
 
JT Miller likely to be the one traded and not EP Rasmus Andersson not up for trade.

While I’m shocked anyone would want Klingberg, I get it. He has shown he performed at the NHL level. Sucks he’s dealt with injuries, and I hope he comes back even if he retires at the end of that year.
 
JT Miller likely to be the one traded and not EP Rasmus Andersson not up for trade.
= NO one wants the Sabre's JUNK.
 
Nah. Dahlin plays much much better on the right side than the left. So having 3 LHD in the top 4 really isn't an issue IMO.
Well, first of all, I see Byram playing on the RD all the time, and not Dahlin, take a closer look at the games, Byram is on the RD much more often than on the LD. Secondly, they are also not ideal in a pair, I see a lot of these small mistakes when they get confused about who should be on the RD, and sometimes both are on the LD, and the opponent's forward easily finds free space because of this.

I don't see the point in three PMDs, this is excessive, we need more defensive right-handed defenders and a top 6 C and other positions . So trading one of Byram/Power makes a lot of sense for me.

But even if Dahlin is more comfortable playing on RD and he wants it. Find him a more defensive partner, as you said, a vet maybe. Gavrikov, M. Pettersson and etc.
 
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