The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[Fjordy]

The new and improved 4th line certainly isn’t a dramatic failure but the acquisition cost for Malenstyn and overall impact on result is absolutely worth scrutinizing given the significant holes further up the lineup

I can't say they're absolutely failure, although @Aladyyn compared Lafferty to Eakin when he was first signed, and I can definitely see those vibes. But I'm sure there are better players out there, especially than Lafferty, I don't like at the moment.

Well, and also Ruff's weird use of these players.

 

[TageGod]

The 4th line is never actually together.

This team is going to live and die by Quinn Cozens and Peterka's production this year.

 

[Fjordy]

The 4th line is never actually together.

This team is going to live and die by Quinn Cozens and Peterka's production this year.

 

[toddkaz]

The new and improved 4th line certainly isn’t a dramatic failure but the acquisition cost for Malenstyn and overall impact on result is absolutely worth scrutinizing given the significant holes further up the lineup

Its not a dramatic failure its a symptom of the bigger problem. Try not to get hung up on the players themselves but the process Adams took in the offseason to get this team to the playoffs.

Make a list of all the players Adams has signed and traded for. Now how many are still in the NHL?

Its a sign that Adams doesn't know what he is doing.

The 4th line is never actually together.

This team is going to live and die by Quinn Cozens and Peterka's production this year.

This was my point about bringing up Malenstyn.

I said the issue isn't Malenstyn per se. The issue is the process and focus Adams had in the offseason to improve the team.

A team not in the playoffs isn't going to make the playoffs because they changed their 4th line yet this was his focus in the offseason.

 

[toddkaz]

Adams traded a 2nd for Malenstyn and Savoie for McLeod.

Now If he took a 1st, a 2nd, and Savoie we are getting a top line player. A difference maker.

A 1st, 2nd and Savoie probably gets you Ehlers or Necas.

Adams trades for 3rd and 4th line players while giving away good assets


How does that make any sense at all.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Nope. They were talking about playoffs as the goal last season.

I stand corrected. Everything's a blur anyway.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I stand corrected. Everything's a blur anyway.

Blur. Drunken haze. Same difference.

 

[Fjordy]

A team not in the playoffs isn't going to make the playoffs because they changed their 4th line yet this was his focus in the offseason.

I would say that he focused on improving the bottom 6, but missed something else that was at least as important, if not more important.

 

[Dingo44]

 

[sabremike]

I would say that he focused on improving the bottom 6, but missed something else that was at least as important, if not more important.

Also he appears to have tried to improve the bottom 6 by buying fool's gold.

 

[Der Jaeger]

It remains to be seen if Adams made mistakes in the bottom 6 acquisitions. However, none of those moves are terrible in terms of the organization's ability to over come them. Eg: a 2nd was a steep price for Malenstyn, but he's playing well, doing his job at the NHL level, and a lot of 2nd rounders don't work out. Easily overcome.

My issue has been the big decisions which will potentially haunt the Sabres. Those decision come at the top end of the draft. You get top picks to draft centers. I did that study a few years back, and show that while centers make up 20% of the roster on game night, 25-30% of top ten picks are allocated to the position, above any other position. They are hard to find.

I can live with Cozens over Zegras. Not a mistake. The upside argument with Quinn over Rossi and Lundell was silly. Owen Power is a tremendous talent. But Matty Beniers is going to play 15 years in this league as a Bergeron-style center. That's why I was one of the lone voices in advocating Beniers over Power.

Imagine Adams reversed just those two decisions, completely within his ability. Here's what the roster looks like right now:

Peterka - Thompson - Tuch
Benson - Beniers - Cozens
Greenway - Lundell - Zucker
Malenstyn - McLeod - NAK
x Krebs, Kulich

Byrum - Dahlin
Samuelsson - Jokiharju
Bryson - Clifton
x Gilbert

UPL, Reimer

Which roster would you rather take on trying to improve, the current one or this one? Sure, this roster has holes on defense but the forwards are solid.

Those types of mistakes were unforced errors. Similar to Murray overthinking taking Chychrun, Sergachev, or McAvoy and taking Nylander.

 

[dickiedunnwrotethis]

It remains to be seen if Adams made mistakes in the bottom 6 acquisitions. However, none of those moves are terrible in terms of the organization's ability to over come them. Eg: a 2nd was a steep price for Malenstyn, but he's playing well, doing his job at the NHL level, and a lot of 2nd rounders don't work out. Easily overcome.

My issue has been the big decisions which will potentially haunt the Sabres. Those decision come at the top end of the draft. You get top picks to draft centers. I did that study a few years back, and show that while centers make up 20% of the roster on game night, 25-30% of top ten picks are allocated to the position, above any other position. They are hard to find.

I can live with Cozens over Zegras. Not a mistake. The upside argument with Quinn over Rossi and Lundell was silly. Owen Power is a tremendous talent. But Matty Beniers is going to play 15 years in this league as a Bergeron-style center. That's why I was one of the lone voices in advocating Beniers over Power.

Imagine Adams reversed just those two decisions, completely within his ability. Here's what the roster looks like right now:

Peterka - Thompson - Tuch
Benson - Beniers - Cozens
Greenway - Lundell - Zucker
Malenstyn - McLeod - NAK
x Krebs, Kulich

Byrum - Dahlin
Samuelsson - Jokiharju
Bryson - Clifton
x Gilbert

UPL, Reimer

Which roster would you rather take on trying to improve, the current one or this one? Sure, this roster has holes on defense but the forwards are solid.

Those types of mistakes were unforced errors. Similar to Murray overthinking taking Chychrun, Sergachev, or McAvoy and taking Nylander.

I had Beniers over Power as well. Swap Cozens for Mitts in the Byram trade and I would be very happy.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

It remains to be seen if Adams made mistakes in the bottom 6 acquisitions. However, none of those moves are terrible in terms of the organization's ability to over come them. Eg: a 2nd was a steep price for Malenstyn, but he's playing well, doing his job at the NHL level, and a lot of 2nd rounders don't work out. Easily overcome.

My issue has been the big decisions which will potentially haunt the Sabres. Those decision come at the top end of the draft. You get top picks to draft centers. I did that study a few years back, and show that while centers make up 20% of the roster on game night, 25-30% of top ten picks are allocated to the position, above any other position. They are hard to find.

I can live with Cozens over Zegras. Not a mistake. The upside argument with Quinn over Rossi and Lundell was silly. Owen Power is a tremendous talent. But Matty Beniers is going to play 15 years in this league as a Bergeron-style center. That's why I was one of the lone voices in advocating Beniers over Power.

Imagine Adams reversed just those two decisions, completely within his ability. Here's what the roster looks like right now:

Peterka - Thompson - Tuch
Benson - Beniers - Cozens
Greenway - Lundell - Zucker
Malenstyn - McLeod - NAK
x Krebs, Kulich

Byrum - Dahlin
Samuelsson - Jokiharju
Bryson - Clifton
x Gilbert

UPL, Reimer

Which roster would you rather take on trying to improve, the current one or this one? Sure, this roster has holes on defense but the forwards are solid.

Those types of mistakes were unforced errors. Similar to Murray overthinking taking Chychrun, Sergachev, or McAvoy and taking Nylander.

I was Beniers, McTavish then Power.

 

[Fjordy]

It remains to be seen if Adams made mistakes in the bottom 6 acquisitions. However, none of those moves are terrible in terms of the organization's ability to over come them. Eg: a 2nd was a steep price for Malenstyn, but he's playing well, doing his job at the NHL level, and a lot of 2nd rounders don't work out. Easily overcome.

My issue has been the big decisions which will potentially haunt the Sabres. Those decision come at the top end of the draft. You get top picks to draft centers. I did that study a few years back, and show that while centers make up 20% of the roster on game night, 25-30% of top ten picks are allocated to the position, above any other position. They are hard to find.

I can live with Cozens over Zegras. Not a mistake. The upside argument with Quinn over Rossi and Lundell was silly. Owen Power is a tremendous talent. But Matty Beniers is going to play 15 years in this league as a Bergeron-style center. That's why I was one of the lone voices in advocating Beniers over Power.

Imagine Adams reversed just those two decisions, completely within his ability. Here's what the roster looks like right now:

Peterka - Thompson - Tuch
Benson - Beniers - Cozens
Greenway - Lundell - Zucker
Malenstyn - McLeod - NAK
x Krebs, Kulich

Byrum - Dahlin
Samuelsson - Jokiharju
Bryson - Clifton
x Gilbert

UPL, Reimer

Which roster would you rather take on trying to improve, the current one or this one? Sure, this roster has holes on defense but the forwards are solid.

Those types of mistakes were unforced errors. Similar to Murray overthinking taking Chychrun, Sergachev, or McAvoy and taking Nylander.

Well, I respect your opinion and creativity. I had Zegras instead of Cozens and Rossi instead of Quinn. And I also liked Beniers in the draft, although as far as I remember I agreed with Power.The defense certainly looks questionable, then at least we need to split Dahlin and Byram into different pairs and find them two better partners and this team is good on paper.

What do you think about Helenius and the draft that just passed? Who would you take?

 

[jc17]

Beniers was fairly popular from what I remember. I liked him but don't consider that one a whiff

The big argument against him from what I remember had little to do with his game but was that the "pro scouts" were mostly putting power first.

2020 draft behind the scenes video emphasized how much "NHL size " meant to the scouting staff. What they failed to recognize in maybe both 2020 and 2021 is that sometimes guys play above or below their size

I know forton is still fairly popular, and they've made some good picks, but I worry a little about the amount of trust in his scouts. Maybe Murray screwed them in 2016, but I don't think a gm should be hands off in a process that decides out future.

Adams ultimately takes the blame, but it's unsettling that the franchise is largely resting on the opinions of some scouts that we have no idea the qualifications of.

What do you think about Helenius and the draft that just passed? Who would you take?

Not who you asked lol, but Minnesota got my guy in 2019 and 2020, and I liked buium so my moneys on missing him being our next regret

 

[Fjordy]

Not who you asked lol, but Minnesota got my guy in 2019 and 2020, and I liked buium so my moneys on missing him being our next regret

Well, I liked Helenius, but I liked Buium too. Maybe Adams was afraid to take Buium because we already have Dahlin and Power, plus Adams added Byram before that. I know we should take BPA, but who knows. In general, I think size is nonsense, especially in the draft. I am delighted when I watch a guy like Quinn Hughes play, Lane Hutson seems interesting, although they are all defensemen. But we have Benson, who is not as big, but he plays with all his heart and grit, better than many big guys.

 

[Fjordy]

It looks like there is some revival in the league and there will be some trades before Christmas, maybe Kevyn will be a little more generous.

 

[sabremike]

The only moves Kevyn will make this season are selling guys for 5th round picks at the deadline to teams still in the playoff picture.

 

[Fjordy]

The only moves Kevyn will make this season are selling guys for 5th round picks at the deadline to teams still in the playoff picture.

Well, I think he will do more, although it depends on where our team will be in a few months.

 

[zenthusiast]

I’d say he’d make moves to save his job but I’m unconvinced that he wouldn’t just fail upwards

 

[TehDoak]

Now that we are at the quarter pole, I think its time for some honest assessment of the off season, and I'll extend it back to last years trade deadline.

Out: Mittelstadt, 2nd round pick , Savoie, Okposo, Skinner, Girgensons
In: Byram, Zucker, McLeod, Malenstyn, Reimer, Aube-Kubel, Reimer, Lafferty

Overall, some solid additions. Byram, Mcleod, and Zucker have all been good. Reimer and NAK get an incomplete so far, and Lafferty/Malenstyn have been OK. But of the players that were added, none have really bombed.

The issue is Adams doubled down on his core forwards and despite a lack of on ice success. Swapping Mittlestadt and a 2nd for McLeod and Byram was OK, but Zucker wasn't enough. He doubled down on Joker, Samuelsson, and Clifton, despite none of them showing they could be a consistent top 4 defender. And then as far as in season blunders, he doubled down on Levi being NHL ready despite it cost him nothing to simply send him to the AHL and risked Reimer to waivers.

Cozens and Quinns struggles have been difficult, but overall,its the unforced errors and lack of ability to make significant additions that have been the issue so far.

 

[TageGod]

It remains to be seen if Adams made mistakes in the bottom 6 acquisitions. However, none of those moves are terrible in terms of the organization's ability to over come them. Eg: a 2nd was a steep price for Malenstyn, but he's playing well, doing his job at the NHL level, and a lot of 2nd rounders don't work out. Easily overcome.

My issue has been the big decisions which will potentially haunt the Sabres. Those decision come at the top end of the draft. You get top picks to draft centers. I did that study a few years back, and show that while centers make up 20% of the roster on game night, 25-30% of top ten picks are allocated to the position, above any other position. They are hard to find.

I can live with Cozens over Zegras. Not a mistake. The upside argument with Quinn over Rossi and Lundell was silly. Owen Power is a tremendous talent. But Matty Beniers is going to play 15 years in this league as a Bergeron-style center. That's why I was one of the lone voices in advocating Beniers over Power.

Imagine Adams reversed just those two decisions, completely within his ability. Here's what the roster looks like right now:

Peterka - Thompson - Tuch
Benson - Beniers - Cozens
Greenway - Lundell - Zucker
Malenstyn - McLeod - NAK
x Krebs, Kulich

Byrum - Dahlin
Samuelsson - Jokiharju
Bryson - Clifton
x Gilbert

UPL, Reimer

Which roster would you rather take on trying to improve, the current one or this one? Sure, this roster has holes on defense but the forwards are solid.

Those types of mistakes were unforced errors. Similar to Murray overthinking taking Chychrun, Sergachev, or McAvoy and taking Nylander.

You do realize Beniers is like a .5 ppg player on a struggling team? Not an upgrade over Cozens. There is not a single person in the entire world that was disappointed in Quinns on ice production until this year.

Power is great.

 

[Fjordy]

You do realize Beniers is like a .5 ppg player on a struggling team? Not an upgrade over Cozens. There is not a single person in the entire world that was disappointed in Quinns on ice production until this year.

Power is great.

I think Beniers is interesting, he had a very bright season 22-23, the next season his production dropped and it looked like a sophomore effect. I don't follow Seattle much, but this season I think he looks very good on defense, I think with our wingers he was a very good two-way center 2C

I'm not saying I would necessarily take Beniers over Power, I liked both players, but Owen is far from perfect either. His defense needs to improve, his physicality can also improve.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Well, I respect your opinion and creativity. I had Zegras instead of Cozens and Rossi instead of Quinn. And I also liked Beniers in the draft, although as far as I remember I agreed with Power.The defense certainly looks questionable, then at least we need to split Dahlin and Byram into different pairs and find them two better partners and this team is good on paper.

What do you think about Helenius and the draft that just passed? Who would you take?

I thought Helenius was the right pick.

You do realize Beniers is like a .5 ppg player on a struggling team? Not an upgrade over Cozens. There is not a single person in the entire world that was disappointed in Quinns on ice production until this year.

Power is great.

I'm not comparing Beniers to Cozens. Beniers is a second year player pulling down top line minutes. If you're using points as your comparison, you're not looking at the bigger picture.

You always ALWAYS take the center over the wing. Centers can move to wing. Remember when they tried to move Quinn to center in Rochester?

Yes Power is great. But the Sabres already had a 1D, and the way teams play the 1-3-1 on the power play, there's only minutes for 1. Power needed to be a 1D somewhere. Like Seattle.

 

[Fjordy]

I'm not comparing Beniers to Cozens.