The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

Fjordy

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Jun 20, 2018
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So this is the maddening part. If they're playing completely different why doesn't it result in better outcomes?

Bryam-Dahlin
47.4% xGF
5 GF 3GA
3.75GF/60
2.25 GA/60

Dahlin-Jokiharju
59% xGF
7GF 3 GA
3.25 GF/60
1.39 GA/60 (12th best among Pairings >100 minutes)
Need more sample, they are also both more offensive D, bad luck, many factors can be. The main thing is that Dahlin with Byram looks good and the team wins, and with Joki it was not. I don't know what else to tell you, except analytics is not always an indicator, sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, because they are not robots, but people. How many teams in the league work only on analytics and also pair up defenders? I doubt it.
 

Jacob582

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Well I don't like Power with Joki but I'm willing to give them another chance, it's weird to keep a guy like Sammy in the press box.
Yeah would be weird to keep an alternate captain in the press box, but Lindy wants to win.
 

Zman5778

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Need more sample, they are also both more offensive D, bad luck, many factors can be. The main thing is that Dahlin with Byram looks good and the team wins, and with Joki it was not. I don't know what else to tell you, except analytics is not always an indicator, sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, because they are not robots, but people. How many teams in the league work only on analytics and also pair up defenders? I doubt it.
I agree that Dahlin-Byram pass the eye test.

BUT.....there's a whole causality/correlation thing. Is the team winning simply because we broke up Dahlin/Joker, even though it seemed analytically solid?
 

Fjordy

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I agree that Dahlin-Byram pass the eye test.

BUT.....there's a whole causality/correlation thing. Is the team winning simply because we broke up Dahlin/Joker, even though it seemed analytically solid?
Of course, not only because of this, I just said from the beginning and said last year and before that, that Dahlin and Joki have no chemistry, problems with mutual understanding, strange moments in the game. Also this whole story about Dahlin often switching to the right side, especially when our team has the puck, in attack, it is more convenient for him. The pair Byram - Dahlin is certainly not ideal and on paper it seems they are not very suitable for each other, but it works, and while it works, why change it.
 

Jacob582

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I agree that Dahlin-Byram pass the eye test.

BUT.....there's a whole causality/correlation thing. Is the team winning simply because we broke up Dahlin/Joker, even though it seemed analytically solid?
No, we lost 1-3 points in the standings because Dahlin and Sammy stunk.

Hard to lose the game individually with a team of 18 skaters, but with their mistakes the puck ended up in that back of their net.

Dahlin playing better now despite who his partner is.
 

Fjordy

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No, we lost 1-3 points in the standings because Dahlin and Sammy stunk.

Hard to lose the game individually with a team of 18 skaters, but with their mistakes the puck ended up in that back of their net.

Dahlin playing better now despite who his partner is.
We lost a lot more points because of our special teams. Someone like Ehlers would be a goddamn good thing for us to easily get into zone at PP.
 

toddkaz

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No, we lost 1-3 points in the standings because Dahlin and Sammy stunk.

Hard to lose the game individually with a team of 18 skaters, but with their mistakes the puck ended up in that back of their net.

Dahlin playing better now despite who his partner is.
Its tough blaming just them when Cozens and Quinn had 1 goal between them after 12 games.
 

tsujimoto74

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So this is the maddening part. If they're playing completely different why doesn't it result in better outcomes?

Bryam-Dahlin
47.4% xGF
5 GF 3GA
3.75GF/60
2.25 GA/60

Dahlin-Jokiharju
59% xGF
7GF 3 GA
3.25 GF/60
1.39 GA/60 (12th best among Pairings >100 minutes)

Statistically, Joker-Dahlin has always been fine, iirc, but that pairing has not ever passed the eye test, and you need to do both.
 
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MOGlLNY

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Statistically, Joker-Dahlin has always been fine, iirc, but that pairing has not ever passed the eye test, and you need to do both.
+1. How many OZ possessions has Jokiharju ended from looking off Dahlin and Thompson by taking a slapshot that gets blocked and lets the other team attack the other way.

Also doesn't account for Dahlin not being able to do his thing because he's concerned about his partner.
 
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Fjordy

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I wonder if Frederic is Jeannot 2.0 or potentially another Bennett. He had 40 points and nearly 20 goals last season. For some reason, he's playing on the fourth line this season.
 

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If Byram is indeed flipped for a forward the return should be top notch. 18 points in 33 games as a Sabre (45 point pace) and is only 23 the entire season. And he clearly has a lot of untapped potential. Glad Mitts is doing well but if Byram reaches that next level you’re talking about a 50-60 point guy…. Having Dahlin, Power and Byram is an insane top half of your D corps.
Yea I think people are really underrating Byram. Ignoring thoughts on the trade, his value is a first line forward. Byram has every bit of the potential and talent to be a top line defensmen. And it’s showing.
 
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Dirty Dog

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Unless you’re moving out cozens or Quinn, which I don’t think is realistic so it’s not worth discussing, I just don’t see a path to upgrading the forward core. Thompson, Tuch, Peterka, Benson, Cozens, Quinn, Zucker, Greenway, and McLeod all have a spot.

Which brings me to the defense. That’s where you can make a legit impact addition. And I’d do it sooner than later. Power, Dahlin, Byram are all looking good and are young players with huge ceilings. Clifton has a role. Samuelsson needs to get his shit together but has an unmovable contract. Which leaves Joker as movable and Power’s partner as the clear spot to upgrade.

You have the assets. You have the cap space. Go acquire a legit partner for Power

*Its also a wild failure of this organization to not only not have a quality veteran in your top 4, but not having a stable partner for you first overall draft pick Power…years after he was drafted. Really inexcusable neglect there
 
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TheBarnIsElectric

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Unless you’re moving out cozens or Quinn, which I don’t think is realistic so it’s not worth discussing, I just don’t see a path to upgrading the forward core. Thompson, Tuch, Peterka, Benson, Cozens, Quinn, Zucker, Greenway, and McLeod all have a spot.

Which brings me to the defense. That’s where you can make a legit impact addition. And I’d do it sooner than later. Power, Dahlin, Byram are all looking good and are young players with huge ceilings. Clifton has a role. Samuelsson needs to get his shit together but has an unmovable contract. Which leaves Joker as movable and Power’s partner as the clear spot to upgrade.

You have the assets. You have the cap space. Go acquire a legit partner for Power

*Its also a wild failure of this organization to not only not have a quality veteran in your top 4, but not having a stable partner for you first overall draft pick Power…years after he was drafted. Really inexcusable neglect there
I was just playing with next year's cap on PuckGM and I came to a similar conclusion.

I think it's a safe bet at this point that they'll re-sign McLeod and Greenway. People may be thinking, we'll at least Quinn won't be expensive now, and that may be true, but even if you sign him for cheap and bring up Kulich to replace Zucker, you're only going to have 3ish mil to work with. And even if you had more cap and could bring in a top 6 forward for 3 mil, who are you sitting from your top 9? Kulich? Quinn? Are you going to play one of them on your 4th line?

And who are you going to bring in anyway? Probably Zucker or someone like him.

Adams either needs to trade Cozens/Quinn to try to upgrade one of their spots, or we move forward with the current mix at F.

Upgrading at Joki's RD spot may be more feasible. If you move on from Joki, a Borgen (3ish) or Murphy (4) could work. You may be able to acquire one of them this year or in the summer.

if they dont want to move on from Cozens/Quinn, i get it, but then they don't have many options for upgrading the roster. They should be looking for a vet defensive D hard from now through the summer.
 

sabremike

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Yea I think people are really underrating Byram. Ignoring thoughts on the trade, his value is a first line forward. Byram has every bit of the potential and talent to be a top line defensmen. And it’s showing.
I've been tough on Byram but the fact that other teams are clearly feeding their media stooges in an attempt to wish a Byram trade into existence (and his recent play) has caused me to reconsider my prior thoughts. They clearly see us as rubes to be conned and taken advantage of, and if they are pushing a Byram trade that says a lot about how he is viewed throughout the league.
 

Dirty Dog

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I've been tough on Byram but the fact that other teams are clearly feeding their media stooges in an attempt to wish a Byram trade into existence (and his recent play) has caused me to reconsider my prior thoughts. They clearly see us as rubes to be conned and taken advantage of, and if they are pushing a Byram trade that says a lot about how he is viewed throughout the league.

Well, the team may in fact be ran by rubes. So watching Byram flourish on another team is still on the menu
 

Fjordy

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Unless you’re moving out cozens or Quinn, which I don’t think is realistic so it’s not worth discussing, I just don’t see a path to upgrading the forward core.
Well it depends on their game, Cozens and Quinn have time, but if it doesn't work they'll have to change something.
 
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Fjordy

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I absolutely agree with @Dirty Dog that finding a top 4 RD to play with Power is now an obvious task.

So I've been studying RDs market for some time now and there aren't many options, especially when the season is underway and TDL is still far away, but all the options are there. You can break them down into two sections:

1. Experienced and proven players.
2. Find your Forsling, like they did in Florida.

First option:

There are players like Colton Parayko and Ryan Pulock, but I don't like Parayko because of his contract, age, and his game is just going downhill. Pulock probably looks better to me, although he's sometimes been injured in recent seasons, he's a similar age and contract, and has trade protection. Not a fan of those two options, but if I had to choose between the two, I would choose Pulock.

Mackenzie Weegar. Experienced, reliable, does not get injured, I think everyone knows this player well. Will he be available? I'm not sure, although for the overpayment, probably yes, do we want to overpay a lot for him, without trading Byram? I'm not sure either. Weegar is right-handed, but he constantly plays at LD, both in Florida and in Calgary, and I don't know for sure whether he is forced to do this or it is simply more convenient for him to play at LD, maybe this is a small thing (although for Ruff it is probably not), but such a strange fact. You can put him next to Parayko and Pulock in terms of age, contract and trade protection, but of these three, I will certainly choose Weegar.

Connor Murphy. This one is a no brainer. Chicago is rebuilding, Murphy has two years left on his contract (4.5M), and is coming off a solid season. I can't say for sure if he's a good fit with Power specifically, but I do know he's a veteran second pair RD who plays 19-20 minutes, can play physical, and can play the PK. It might be a bit of a premium given his contract and that Chicago could just retain 50% and trade him at TDL and get him a nice return. If Adams, Ruff, and the analytics department agree he's a good fit, then Murphy seems like a great fit for a few years until guys like Strbak, Komarov and Kleber come along and take that spot for themselves.

Brandon Carlo. The last player on my list in this category. I think getting Carlo will be tough, division rival, Boston, but there may be some chance. On paper Carlo seems like a perfect fit, but also what will be cost? Probably Boston will be looking for help on offense, maybe one of our fancy prospects. Also, we must remember that Carlo has a history of concussions, like Byram, which also carries some risk. Overall I think the option is not the most realistic, especially in the middle of the season.

Second options:
Finding a second Forsling is already more difficult than the first option, many factors must come together here: the work of our management, and the coaches’ playing system, and analytics, and even then no one will give guarantees that it will work. But we can try.

Zach Whitecloud. I've heard about this player on these boards before. Whitecloud is not flashy, but he is reliable, has a good contract, has already won a cup, seems like what we need. Right now he is stuck on the third pair and will have a hard time moving up as long as guys like Pietro and Theodore are in the lineup on the right side. Although Whitecloud has experience playing in the top 4 in earlier seasons for Vegas. Here I see one serious obstacle, finding motivation for Vegas to trade Zach. Maybe one of our offensive prospects as a main part of the deal, but there is also no guarantee that Vegas will want to do it during the season. But overall Whitecloud seems like a very interesting option to improve our top 4.

Alexandre Carrier. I would also consider Dante Fabbro, but he was already taken by Columbus and they will be testing his suitability. Carrier also seems like an interesting option and Nashville is in a weird spot right now. Trotz's announcement, Fabbro's waiver, poor play and last place in the conference. I don't know much about Carrier so it's hard to assess whether he's a good fit or not, but at least he's been a regular for Nashville for years and seems like a versatile defenseman. Whether he'll be available is also a question mark considering they just waived Fabbro and their depth at RD doesn't seem deep. Sure, we could include Jokiharju in a deal.
GRbao5AXgAAfjnC.jpg


Jonathan Kovacevic. This guy came out of nowhere and is playing top 4 minutes for the Devils and seems to be doing very well. New Jersey hasn't had any problems with defensemen lately, especially finding them for dirt cheap. I've talked a lot about Marino and his trade before and now Kovacevic is coming in. Looking at the Devils' depth on the right side, they have Hamilton, they just signed Pesce and he's already back from injury, and they have Nemec who is in the AHL, maybe the Devils don't think Nemec is ready right now, plus Kovacevic's play is keeping him from the NHL, but Kovacevic could potentially be an interesting option, although the Devils probably don't have the motivation to sell him right now.
GRWjUwdW4AEfrGI.jpg


These are my options, of course, it is not so easy to make a deal in November-December, but I think it is possible with one of these teams, especially since we have interesting assets. I can also mention an old friend William Borgen, although now he is stuck in the third pair and his game seems to have dropped a little, he could also be considered.
 

Chainshot

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Kovacevic was on my radar when he first arrived in Montreal. He's atop his game now in Jersey, keeping guys like Nemec and Casey out of the lineup. I don't see him being moved.

I did have a dream (nightmare?) that they bring Risto back as the RD option for Power. :laugh: :cry:
 
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Fjordy

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Kovacevic was on my radar when he first arrived in Montreal. He's atop his game now in Jersey, keeping guys like Nemec and Casey out of the lineup. I don't see him being moved.

I did have a dream (nightmare?) that they bring Risto back as the RD option for Power. :laugh: :cry:
So they trade Nemec? :sarcasm:
 

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