The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[BFLO]

Some fancy stats might say Suter is a top 50 player but I'd be suspect of them. He's a slightly positive 5v5 player who's on a heater scoring almost 80% more goals above his shooting talent.

But yes I'd him on the Sabres over Lafferty (or Krebs, or Mal) 7 days a week and twice on sunday.

It's not just this season, and he's been well above slightly positive. Compare his fancies to McLeod.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

It's not just this season, and he's been well above slightly positive. Compare his fancies to McLeod.

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I said I'd take him gladly, where I draw the line is thinking he's a top 50 player.

 

[Der Jaeger]

His 5 on 5 close and tied P/60 take a huge drop off.

And the "eye test" argument doesn't pass muster with me given how things have played out the past 4 seasons. The "eye test" argument said that Jack Quinn would be producing way more this year than he has.

The "eye test" argument said that Cozens wouldn't fall off a cliff.

Banking on Benson and Kulich being 2/3 of the top line for 82 games next season is a bet that is highly unlikely to pay off next season. And going with them as top line guys instead of adding legit veteran top line talent this offseason is going with another year of the Kevyn Adams blueprint.

And we have seen where that has gotten the Sabres the past half-decade.

The Sabres are at the point where they can put younger players with vets and still have kids contributing in the top 9.

Ruff could put Benson with Norris and Thompson. The latter two are certainly no longer kids.

Ruff could put Zucker and Tuch on Kulich's wings. Same thing.

Then put Peterka and Quinn with McLeod.

Those are balanced in a lot of ways.

 

[BFLO]

I said I'd take him gladly, where I draw the line is thinking he's a top 50 player.

5v5 offense and PP offense Suter is 125th among forwards.
5v5 defense and Short handed Suter is 8th among forwards.

That averages out to 57th. in GAR

edit: in xGAR he's 48th overall. Offensively he's 84th and Defensively he's 19th.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Having 2/3 of the top line being that young is worrisome to me. A huge part of the issues the past 4 seasons has been relying on guys that are young and inexperienced.

Counting on 2/3 of the top line being guys in their 20 & 21 year old seasons...

I'm ok with Benson being the rabid dog on a top-6 line. Benson's IQ is just off the charts + his motor never stops + he's a feisty little bastard, so I'm a bit more lenient on giving him a bigger role.

But I agree, relying on him and Kulich to be big contributors in the top-6 would be worrisome. Top-6 C and Top-4 RD are my two biggest needs this offseason. If Rossi is available, you snag him however possible, and suddenly- the center spine actually looks strong.

Give me Rossi and Weegar (or someone of that ilk), and we're off to a really good start. If Peterka is traded, then I'd like a veteran top-6 player. A signing like Zucker works, too, if all else fails.

A bottom 6 combination of these players actually looks good:
McLeod, Kulich, Zucker, Greenway, Kozak, Krebs, and Malenstyn

A top-6 of this combination is a great blend of skill, mentorship, and youth:
Tage, Benson, Tuch, Rossi, Norris, veteran winger

If Adams could pull that off, he'd pull me back in. That's just a nice blend of skill, veteran presence, and youth ready to explode with some nice depth in the bottom-6 that can move up into the top-6 if injuries occur or a younger player hits a wall.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

5v5 offense and PP offense Suter is 125th among forwards.
5v5 defense and Short handed Suter is 8th among forwards.

That averages out to 57th. in GAR

You can say all these things to me, but I'm not buying. Something is wrong with how they're representing GAR.

 

[OkimLom]

Has Benson been consistent?

He started out the season really slow going pointless in his first 8 games.

And he's been producing at less than 0.5 pts/g.

Benson plays with the spunk like you like from a bottom 6 forward. But, I don't know if he is the type of player yet that you can count on for first line production.

This would be another example of playing young guys too high in the lineup because you don't have quality veterans, especially legit first line talents, to allow them to play the role that is in line with where they are development-wise.

Zach is producing similar to Jeff Skinner at almost 2 mins per game more this season which I think is hilarious, and he seems to be in the crowd of production from other 3rd liners.

I feel Zach needs to show an ability to become dangerous in further out areas in the offensive zone. I love that he wants to take it to the net, which I don't want coached or taken away from him, but to become a top 6 mainstay, I think his next step in his development needs to be a jump in his ability to create more offense for himself quicker and in areas that are further out from the crease. He's got more elements in his defensive and "without the puck" game than most rookies and younger players have shown, but IMO he hasn't shown the offensive flair shown from his young peers.

 

[joshjull]

I’m just catching up on the last few pages. Why do some of you think Rossi would be available to us? I mean, I think Guerin would be an idiot to just shop him due to a size. But if he was, it would make sense he’d want Cozens as replacement.

Now that we’ve traded Cozens, we have no other option that would theoretically fit the target Guerin would have. Which would be a bigger top 6 center option than Rossi.

 

[BFLO]

You can say all these things to me, but I'm not buying. Something is wrong with how they're representing GAR.

The original question was "Does Suter add more than $2m more in value than Lafferty?"

I think the answer is unequivocally yes, even if you disagree on Suter's exact GAR/xGAR ranking.

Even if his GAR/xGAR is half of what the model says it is he'd still be worth more than $2m more than Lafferty.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I’m just catching up on the last few pages. Why do some of you think Rossi would be available to us? I mean, I think Guerin would be an idiot to just shop him due to a size. But if he was, it would make sense he’d want Cozens as replacement.

Now that we’ve traded Cozens, we have no other option that would theoretically fit the target Guerin would have. Which would be a bigger top 6 center option than Rossi.

Below is what started it, from the main trade board.

Wild Athletic writer Michael Russo mentioned the following during one of his latest podcasts (speculation starting at 59:16):


-Likely to go after Brock Nelson in free agency (sigh)
-Doesn't think Minnesota will be into Boeser unless the price is "perfectly right" because they will be exploring the trade market
-Mentions JJ Peterka as a trade target (for him specifically)
-Higher than 70% chance that Rossi is traded this summer (Joe Smith said the number is around 70% for him that Rossi is traded) and that the Wild and Rossi camp are far apart in contract negotiations
-Possibility they trade Spurgeon or Bogosian this summer to make room for Jiricek in the lineup

Who are some other top 6 forwards the Wild could target this summer?

 

[joshjull]

Below is what started it, from the main trade board.

Thank you for the info. It certainly makes the speculation more logical.

 

[jc17]

His 5 on 5 close and tied P/60 take a huge drop off.

And the "eye test" argument doesn't pass muster with me given how things have played out the past 4 seasons. The "eye test" argument said that Jack Quinn would be producing way more this year than he has.

The "eye test" argument said that Cozens wouldn't fall

Idk I don't think this is true. Even when producing Quinn and Cozens had a ton of bad moments. They just covered them up with putting the puck in the net. I think a few years worth of game threads would point to them failing the eye test more than passing.

I agree that as our top line isn't ideal, but assuming majority of the forward group is the same, I think something like this would give us a better shot at 3 effective lines at least. But if we can upgrade anywhere, I'd be happy to.

 

[joshjull]

Another way to look at it would be "does suter provide 2M additional value than Lafferty?".

I think there's a chance that having a 4th competent center could have some snowball effect. For example, my opinions of jack quinn are well documented, but his numbers away from cozens this year aren't terrible. Imagine if having a reliable center brought out the better part of Quinn's game, it would be massive swing.

If we drop Lafferty and add suter, that brings our forwards to about 56% of the current cap (even factoring in an 8M Peterka extension). 56% is league average.


(Side note: That's part of of the issue I have with Norris I guess. Before we paid him 8 we had a discounted C spine, and could overpay a 4th line guy.)

I would hope so since Lafferty is a 4th liner and Suter is not.


Suter as winger might make sense but I’m not sure why he’d be a target. Outside of being older, he doesn’t bring much of what we need. Unless you see him as capable of being an effective top 6 winger.

 

[toddkaz]

 

[Chainshot]

Has Benson been consistent?

He started out the season really slow going pointless in his first 8 games.

And he's been producing at less than 0.5 pts/g.

Benson plays with the spunk like you like from a bottom 6 forward. But, I don't know if he is the type of player yet that you can count on for first line production.

This would be another example of playing young guys too high in the lineup because you don't have quality veterans, especially legit first line talents, to allow them to play the role that is in line with where they are development-wise.

There was the issue of the ankle sprain he was trying to gut through until they put him on IR to get himself right. That clearly impacted his game early.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

I’m just catching up on the last few pages. Why do some of you think Rossi would be available to us? I mean, I think Guerin would be an idiot to just shop him due to a size. But if he was, it would make sense he’d want Cozens as replacement.

Now that we’ve traded Cozens, we have no other option that would theoretically fit the target Guerin would have. Which would be a bigger top 6 center option than Rossi.

it's not size. Rossi wants 9 to 10 mil dollars and he won't take any less. Apparently has the world's most difficult agent. The wild offered him same money as Matt Boldy at 7.5 and he said no.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

it's not size. Rossi wants 9 to 10 mil dollars and he won't take any less. Apparently has the world's most difficult agent. The wild offered him same money as Matt Boldy at 7.5 and he said no.

Good article here that also mentions Rossi could be a Offer Sheet Candidate

What Would A Marco Rossi Long-Term Deal Look Like?

Marco Rossi is a hockey blogger’s dream. Drafted 9th overall, he was undersized but supremely skilled. That combination made him a content factory. Following the draft, Rossi experienced life-threatening complications from COVID-19 and has gritted his way back to a development path typical of a t...

hockeywilderness.com

 

[jc17]

it's not size. Rossi wants 9 to 10 mil dollars and he won't take any less. Apparently has the world's most difficult agent. The wild offered him same money as Matt Boldy at 7.5 and he said no.

Yeah that's a pretty significant ask

I'm a bit apprehensive though, because it was reported that he wasn't part of the plan last season, after a 40 point season. I can't imagine the ask was near that high in the off-season

 

[Hockeyfan200]

Good article here that also mentions Rossi could be a Offer Sheet Candidate

What Would A Marco Rossi Long-Term Deal Look Like?

Marco Rossi is a hockey blogger’s dream. Drafted 9th overall, he was undersized but supremely skilled. That combination made him a content factory. Following the draft, Rossi experienced life-threatening complications from COVID-19 and has gritted his way back to a development path typical of a t...

hockeywilderness.com

that was last off-season or whenever Russo mentioned that, wild have been very pleased with his play and offered him a long term extension at the money Matt Boldy is making, but he said no. Wild have well over 15 mil , so cap is no longer an issue in the off-season. The reason they have the cap is because of ryan suter and Parise cap hold coming off

 

[Hockeyfan200]

Yeah that's a pretty significant ask

I'm a bit apprehensive though, because it was reported that he wasn't part of the plan last season, after a 40 point season. I can't imagine the ask was near that high in the off-season

Nope but last off-season wild weren't sure about Rossi and didn't want to negotiate with him. This year, they have been very pleased but because of his agents basically being like the cap going up means he should get paid 9 to 10 mil and he won't come off. Russo has mentioned his agent is beyond difficult to work with.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Nope but last off-season wild weren't sure about Rossi and didn't want to negotiate with him. This year, they have been very pleased but because of his agents basically being like the cap going up means he should get paid 9 to 10 mil and he won't come off. Russo has mentioned his agent is beyond difficult to work with.

If this is all accurate, then it sounds plausible Rossi wants to leave. A sort of "you didn't believe in me, screw you" situation

 

[ValJamesDuex]

that was last off-season or whenever Russo mentioned that, wild have been very pleased with his play and offered him a long term extension at the money Matt Boldy is making, but he said no. Wild have well over 15 mil , so cap is no longer an issue in the off-season. The reason they have the cap is because of ryan suter and Parise cap hold coming off

The article is from February last month. We like to deal in facts over here most of the time.

Didn't your own beat writer Michel Russo just say Guerin thinks he's too small ?

With cap going up agents/players are ALL going to want their hands in the cookie jar.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

The article is from February. We like to deal in facts over here most of the time.

Didn't your own beat writer Michel Russo just say Guerin thinks he's too small ?

With cap going up agents/players are ALL going to want their hands in the cookie jar.

That small think is Russo's opinion. it's not fact. Lately he has been out with the fact that it's about his agent and the cap going up. Russo is amazing, but he speculates alot, and he does both opinion and facts. On his recent podcast, he said the agent is very difficult to deal with, and wild also won't go more than what their Young improving player in Matt Boldy is making.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

If this is all accurate, then it sounds plausible Rossi wants to leave. A sort of "you didn't believe in me, screw you" situation

Maybe you're right. But you know how it's with player's in all sports, when cap goes up, they think their worth more than they are

 

[Chainshot]

It all sounds like Rossi's agency are d-bags.