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The 2010 draft is holding us back

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Anyone notice the play of Matt Greene against the Rangers in the finals?

When the Rangers PP went 0-6 in game 2?

When the Rangers throwing their big bodies in front of the net weren't able to able get 2nd or 3rd chance opportunities?

When the Rangers couldn't get any shots through for long stretches?

When the Rangers couldn't establish a forecheck by winning board battles?

How many OT playoff games did the Rangers lose because JMoore couldn't win a net front battle the last two seasons?

I count at least 4.

Thats what guys like Greene and Orpik bring to the table... That's what is expected of McIlrath.
 
stan the caddy said:
Girardi didn't really get burned, he's actually really good 1 on 1 with a guy coming down the wing. He's always got good positioning and he blocks a ton of shots. Where he gets ****ing abused is on the boards because he too slow to get there in time when teams are dumping on him. If he's constantly laboring to just get to a puck and chip it up he's going to turn it over a bunch and he did. Those plays are so much easier for a guy like Fowler because he's never slow to the puck. You dump it on him and he's going to win his races.
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Dan is usually good 1 on 1 but Jeff Carter's eyes lit up when he saw he had Dan one on one. He went around him like he was a pylon at least twice. I think another Kings (Pearson?) did as well. Dan had a nightmare of a series. Some was due to speed but some of it was not. Look at some of his most blatant turnovers. No King was near him so speed was not a factor on those plays. He just fluffed the puck. I have to say he had some bad luck as well. Who breaks their stick up near their top hand?

Speaking of Carter boy did I under rate that guy. In my opinion he played better than every forward we played against in the whole playoffs.
 
Mikos87 said:
Anyone notice the play of Matt Greene against the Rangers in the finals?

When the Rangers PP went 0-6 in game 2?

When the Rangers throwing their big bodies in front of the net weren't able to able get 2nd or 3rd chance opportunities?

When the Rangers couldn't get any shots through for long stretches?

When the Rangers couldn't establish a forecheck by winning board battles?

How many OT playoff games did the Rangers lose because JMoore couldn't win a net front battle the last two seasons?

I count at least 4.

Thats what guys like Greene and Orpik bring to the table... That's what is expected of McIlrath.
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Too many back breaking goals on rebounds in front of our net when guys were searching for the puck instead of taking the man. In some cases they took the man and still got overpowered.
 
NickyFotiu said:
I know how some Ranger fans would react to Fowler just letting guys stand around in the crease.
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FarflungYoungDuckbillcat.gif


:laugh:
 
NickyFotiu said:
Dan is usually good 1 on 1 but Jeff Carter's eyes lit up when he saw he had Dan one on one. He went around him like he was a pylon at least twice. I think another Kings (Pearson?) did as well. Dan had a nightmare of a series. Some was due to speed but some of it was not. Look at some of his most blatant turnovers. No King was near him so speed was not a factor on those plays. He just fluffed the puck. I have to say he had some bad luck as well. Who breaks their stick up near their top hand?

Speaking of Carter boy did I under rate that guy. In my opinion he played better than every forward we played against in the whole playoffs.
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McDonagh got burned more than Girardi in these playoffs and he's the best skater in our d. I don't necessarily agree with you about Girardi having no Kings around him. Yes, some of the turnovers were avoidable but a lot of them were just because he's slow. You run out of options and handcuff yourself when you're slow to the puck. The big overtime **** up was obviously just a bad decision but he made a million other turnovers, too.
 
The 2010 draft was fine. It netted us two sure fire NHL players. While McIlrath and Fast have limited ceilings, I think both guys definitely have a role in the NHL. Thomas netted us Kristo. Kristo might have a role. I wouldn't count on it, but its possible.

Of course you'd like to get a star with the #10 pick in the draft, but sometimes you don't. The draft is a crapshoot. Sometimes you hit on a pick, and sometimes you miss.
 
NickyFotiu said:
Too many back breaking goals on rebounds in front of our net when guys were searching for the puck instead of taking the man. In some cases they took the man and still got overpowered.
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Yeah I mean how many whacks did the kings get on rebounds? They were relentless and didn't have to pay a price.

Meanwhile on the other end you had guys that tried, Pouliot tried, but he was overpowered, Zucc, MSL didn't get their stick on rebounds. A lot of that has to do with how well the Kings cleared the crease.

Meanwhile they had their way with tip ins and rebounds because of the skinny and lanky D on the Rangers backend couldn't prevent that from happening.
 
rangersfan9 said:
The 2010 draft was fine. It netted us two sure fire NHL players. While McIlrath and Fast have limited ceilings, I think both guys definitely have a role in the NHL. Thomas netted us Kristo. Kristo might have a role. I wouldn't count on it, but its possible.

Of course you'd like to get a star with the #10 pick in the draft, but sometimes you don't. The draft is a crapshoot. Sometimes you hit on a pick, and sometimes you miss.
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The Rangers always come up a scorer or two short capable of potting the goals to put them over the top. They seem to have passed up a ton of them in the first two rounds of 2010. Plus, being continually forced to bring in veterans to carry the offense leaves us constantly tight for cap space.
 
The reality is most of the Kings big guns on offense were drafted by other teams as well. Sure they got Kopitar in the 2005 draft but they also got Carter, Gaborik, Williams, and Richards who were all drafted by other teams.
 
NickyFotiu said:
The reality is most of the Kings big guns on offense were drafted by other teams as well. Sure they got Kopitar in the 2005 draft but they also got Carter, Gaborik, Williams, and Richards who were all drafted by other teams.
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Look at their top six: Kopitar, Brown, Toffoli, and Pearson are all homegrown. Carter's contract goes on forever, but cap hit-wise it's a steal.
 
Zil said:
Look at their top six: Kopitar, Brown, Toffoli, and Pearson are all homegrown. Carter's contract goes on forever, but cap hit-wise it's a steal.
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Were those 4 more important than Carter, Gaborik, Williams and Richards in the series against us?
 
NickyFotiu said:
Were those 4 more important than Carter, Gaborik, Williams and Richards in the series against us?
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I didn't say all of their big pieces came through the draft, but starting with Kopitar, Brown, Toffoli, and Pearson is huge. Gaborik doesn't do what he does without Kopitar. We've seen what Gaborik without Kopitar looks like. We've seen years of it. Dustin Brown destroyed us. Also Richards was on their fourth line. I don't see how he was more important than the guys I named. Carter and Williams are big pieces, but Carter also looks way better as their number two center than as a number one.

LA took advantage of Columbus multiple times to get big name players at low cap hits. Carter never wanted to be there and forced his way out for peanuts after underperforming. Gaborik did little for them as well and didn't Columbus eat some money to get the deal done? Meanwhile, we did the opposite in acquiring Nash's huge deal because we were desperate to add the offense we had failed to draft.

Cake or Death said:
lol wow
:deadhorse
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I'm talking about the draft as a whole, not just the McIlrath pick. Toffoli or Smith-Pelly in the second round would've been huge.
 
Hmm, a draft that is only 4 years old is what's holding us back? I'd argue it's more the 2002, 2003, 2005 (only Staal), 2006 (only anisimov), 2007 (only hags) and maybe 2009 (CK is very inconsistent still), but if we want to harp on about a RW who would have had to beat out Gabby/Nash and Cally for a top 6 role and MZA for a top 9 role (not to mention Feds in 2011-12) then yeah, go nuts...
 
Zil said:
I didn't say all of their big pieces came through the draft, but starting with Kopitar, Brown, Toffoli, and Pearson is huge. Gaborik doesn't do what he does without Kopitar. We've seen what Gaborik without Kopitar looks like. We've seen years of it. Dustin Brown destroyed us. Also Richards was on their fourth line. I don't see how he was more important than the guys I named. Carter and Williams are big pieces, but Carter also looks way better as their number two center than as a number one.

LA took advantage of Columbus multiple times to get big name players at low cap hits. Carter never wanted to be there and forced his way out for peanuts after underperforming. Gaborik did little for them as well and didn't Columbus eat some money to get the deal done? Meanwhile, we did the opposite in acquiring Nash's huge deal because we were desperate to add the offense we had failed to draft.



I'm talking about the draft as a whole, not just the McIlrath pick. Toffoli or Smith-Pelly in the second round would've been huge.
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Having Kopitar is huge but the other 3 guys you named are no better than guys like Stepan, Kreider, Hagelin who we drafted here.
 
Here we go again.


Mcilrath was a huge reach at 10

His skills are useful just no where near as good as an offensive dman with fowler skills Ora scoring forward like tank.

Both would have helped in the playoffs.

Poor pick. It happens when you fall in love with what a player might become over what a player is at the time you choose him.

Fowler was a pmd. Still is.
Tarasenko a scorer. Still is.

Still not sure what Mac will ever be and when
 
I'm still and will always be in the camp of "there's no way in hell Torts would have let Fowler thrive like he did in Anaheim".
 
Raspewtin said:
I'm still and will always be in the camp of "there's no way in hell Torts would have let Fowler thrive like he did in Anaheim".
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There's a reason he's been fired twice in 2 years. He ruined a lot of careers with his "system".

Dudes a clown.

Was never a fan. Ever.
 
Aufheben said:
And the reason the Kings had free parking in front of Hank all series is because none of our defensemen can clear the crease. I can't WAIT for the smorgasbord of crow this kid is gonna serve.

He's ****ing 22.
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Klein?
 
Raspewtin said:
I'm still and will always be in the camp of "there's no way in hell Torts would have let Fowler thrive like he did in Anaheim".
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I don't see why this conclusion is being made. Torts helped elevate the game of the entire top 4 during his reign here. If there was one thing he was good at, it was getting the most out of his defenders at least from a defensive standpoint.

I think Fowler will be McDonagh-lite very shortly. It is maddening to think what could've been.
 
The McIlrath pick just underlines what has been obvious for years if you actually look at the data: skill and smarts is infinitely more important than size, strength, and "intangibles".

Sure "you can't teach size" but you can work around a lack of size with skill and smarts, but you sure as hell can't make up for a lack of skill and smarts with size in the NHL anymore - even as a defenceman. Hell, especially as a defenceman!

Good defence can definitely be taught to a smart defenceman, look at guys like Vlasic and Strålman. They were both dominant offensive defencemen before they got to the NHL, yet are both seen as defensive defencemen now. But unlike traditional "shutdown" guys like Regehr and Girardi they actually shut you down by controlling the NZ and preventing shots against rather than blocking shots and chasing round in their own end.

The problem that most scouts still doesn't seem to get is that the junior environment is so vastly different from the NHL. In juniors guys can "get by" on a certain level of skill, and use their size/strength/etc. to stand out. But when those guys get to the NHL (if they even get there) they can no longer "get by" as the game is too fast and skilled for them.

This study shows that if a defencemen drafted in the first three rounds has less than 0.6 PPG in his draft year, his chances of making it as a regular is 13.33%. If he is above that they are 50%. And most of the exceptions in those 13.33% are guys who broke out offensively in their post draft seasons (Letang, Vlasic, Staal, Phaneuf, Hamonic). And that's just points, which aren't necessarily a great indicator of skill - but I think it underlines how important skill actually is for a defenceman. Scouts need to stop looking after guys who look like the NHL defenceman they want in juniors - because that guy won't be skilled enough to play in that role in the NHL.
 
Mcilrath is smart and skilled. So that argument sucks.

In any case, he developed a lot last season and isn't far off from being an nhl regular. He's quite the fan favorite and a lot of fun to watch, even when he isn't fighting.

He will be a 2nd pairing Dman in not too long. Would love to see a mcilrath/Skjei pairing in another two years
 
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