That weird final WHA season (1978-79): How did it work?

[The Panther]

I've never really understood what happened in that final WHA season of 1978-79. Well before my time, so I've just heard stories about it.

So, it seems there were only 7 clubs left at the start of that season. But then Indianapolis folded after 25 games (they sold Gretzky to Edmonton after eight games), leaving only 6 clubs... in mid-season. So then, how did the rest of the schedule work? Wouldn't one club's suddenly becoming defunct in mid-season require the entire season schedule to be completely redone? And surely there'd be really fair way to do that. Then, a bunch of the Indianapolis players (like Blaine Stoughton, Mark Messier, and others) suddenly moved, at the drop of a hat (?), to other pro teams to finish the season. How'd that work?

To make it even weirder, the "Soviet All Stars" and Czechoslovakia played 1 game against each WHA team (I think... anyway, they played 6 apiece), and these games counted in the WHA standings (!). Weirder still, Finland is recorded as having played 1 game only against the WHA... and it, too, counted in the standings. So, who'd they play? This is all bizarre to me.

Then, to top it off, the WHA All-Star game, which was played in Edmonton (remembered for Gordie Howe and still 17-year-old Wayne Gretzky playing together), was not in fact an All Star "game", but was three games between Dynamo Moscow and the WHA All-Stars. I've never heard of anything like that in any sport.

By the way, I'm also curious as to why/how New England/Hartford ended up being approved for joining the NHL the following season. I get that the top-four teams in the standings (Edmonton, Quebec, Winnipeg, 'New England'/Hartford) made it in for the 1979-80 NHL season... but why was Hartford approved? It was never a very stable market and not an overly big urban area, and adding it made the NHL 21 teams, creating imbalanced divisions (that would last until 1991-92). It just seems odd to me that when the NHL and its gray-beard owners were so anti-WHA that they'd allow an unlikely market like that to join.

Can anyone address any of these things?

Click to read more...

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

The Indianapolis Racers franchise dissolved in mid-December and all players were declared free agents.

The original schedule plan was for each to team play all six WHA opponents 13 times in 1978-79 plus one game each against touring teams from Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia. Teams existed in Quebec, Edmonton, Winnipeg, New England, Cincinnati, Birmingham and Indianapolis. That would produce an 80-game schedule. Adjustments were made after Indianapolis conceded operations. In order for Edmonton to reach 80 games, the Oilers played a touring Finland team (March 20, 8-4 Oilers' win).

Birmingham, for example, played 15 games against CIN, EDM, NE and QUE, 14 games against WIN, two games against the touring teams in addition to four games against the Racers.

Winnipeg, for example, played 14 or 15 games against all WHA teams, the two scheduled games against the touring teams, and seven games against the Racers.

As far as the Whalers, they had detractors -- the Bruins foremost -- from entering the NHL. The Whalers were the most financially sound US-based WHA team at the time and they paid to get into the NHL as did QUE, EDM and WIN. West coast teams in the NHL had their concerns based on increased travel which is part of the reason why the NHL adopted a balanced schedule. It took convincing of enough NHL opposition to get the merger completed.

Howard Baldwin told a story once that the NHL and WHA could have merged with 12 franchises (mid-70s) joining the NHL and each paying roughly $2 million to enter. Teams in favor included the Flyers and Rangers while teams strongly opposed were the Leafs and Hawks among others.

 

[The Panther]

The Indianapolis Racers franchise dissolved in mid-December and all players were declared free agents.

The original schedule plan was for each to team play all six WHA opponents 13 times in 1978-79 plus one game each against touring teams from Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia. Teams existed in Quebec, Edmonton, Winnipeg, New England, Cincinnati, Birmingham and Indianapolis. That would produce an 80-game schedule. Adjustments were made after Indianapolis conceded operations but in order for Edmonton to reach 80 games they played a touring Finland team (March 20, 8-4 Oilers' win).

Birmingham, for example, played 15 games against CIN, EDM, NE and QUE, 14 games against WIN, two games against the touring teams in addition to four games against the Racers.

Winnipeg, for example, played 14 or 15 games against all teams, the two scheduled games against the touring teams, and seven games against the Racers.

As far as the Whalers, they had detractors -- the Bruins foremost -- from entering the NHL. West coast teams in the NHL had their concerns based on travel which is part of the reason why the NHL adopted a balanced schedule. But the Whalers were the most financially sound US-based WHA team at the time and they paid to get into the NHL as did QUE, EDM and WIN. It took convincing of certain NHL opponents to get the merger completed.

Howard Baldwin told a story once that the NHL and WHA could have merged with 12 franchises (mid-70s) joining the NHL and each paying roughly $2 million to enter. Teams in favor included the Flyers and Rangers while teams strongly opposed were the Leafs and Hawks among others.

Great info there. Thanks!

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Great info there. Thanks!

You are welcome. BTW, if you or others care there are three stories (that I saw) regarding the Oilers and/or the WHA from that point in time (1978-79) that should be of interest at the link below. It includes Mark Messier's five-game trial period with the Indianapolis Racers and how that transpired.

WHA: Edmonton Oilers acquire Wayne Gretzky from Indianapolis Racers | Edmonton Journal

 

[wetcoast]

Howard Baldwin told a story once that the NHL and WHA could have merged with 12 franchises (mid-70s) joining the NHL and each paying roughly $2 million to enter. Teams in favor included the Flyers and Rangers while teams strongly opposed were the Leafs and Hawks among others.

I know it's not polite to speak ill of the dead but it's not surprising that Ballard and Wirtz were opposed as they weren't good for hockey or their teams.

The WHA definitely did have a positive affect for professional hockey in North America and in general, it's too bad that some look down upon the league still to this day.

Perhaps the hockey world might be a better place had the WHA survived and carried on to this day?

 

[wetcoast]

You are welcome. BTW, if you or others care there are three stories (that I saw) regarding the Oilers and/or the WHA from that point in time (1978-79) that should be of interest at the link below. It includes Mark Messier's five-game trial period with the Indianapolis Racers and how that transpired.

WHA: Edmonton Oilers acquire Wayne Gretzky from Indianapolis Racers | Edmonton Journal

This is actually really funny in how Gretzky was described at the time from Oiler GM Larry Gordon

He reminds me a lot of Steve Shutt with his small, deceptive steps. Or maybe (Minnesota centre) Tim Young.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

I know it's not polite to speak ill of the dead but it's not surprising that Ballard and Wirtz were opposed as they weren't good for hockey or their teams.

The WHA definitely did have a positive affect for professional hockey in North America and in general, it's too bad that some look down upon the league still to this day.

Perhaps the hockey world might be a better place had the WHA survived and carried on to this day?

At the time, players had an option to jump leagues. Bernie Parent, for instance, was under contract to the Maple Leafs but he jumped to the first-year Miami WHA franchise which never got underway due to lack of funding for a proposed arena. The team immediately moved to Philadelphia where it played at an outdated facility one where the Zamboni cracked the ice and the game was canceled. The same franchise signed Derek Sanderson for what was reported to be the largest contract in team sports at the time. The Blazers moved to Vancouver after one season and had financial woes which led Parent to make another choice: return to Toronto, play for a WHA franchise with whom he had disagreements over payments, or request a trade/sit out. His stay in Philadelphia with the WHA convinced him that he wanted to return to the city where he once played in the NHL. The Leafs and Flyers worked out a trade and he returned to the NHL.

Not many franchises in the WHA were solvent. Some made big splashes for attention. But few could operate in the black. Indianapolis, for instance, had about half the spectators on average needed to help pay bills. Players now have lucrative contracts and certainly overseas hockey is more viable than it was in say the mid-70s.

Especially with TV contracts, the impact to the NHL is massive. Hockey in the mid 70s was vastly different. I read a story once that one game in the 1974 NHL Finals (Flyers and Bruins) was aired on PBS in New York because the local NBC network didn't want to replace popular TV shows on at the time. The NBA Finals in 1978 and/or 1979 was shown on tape delay in some markets. Then of course came the influx of cable TV and certain players who became household names. But for hockey and the NHL, I don't see the WHA in today's day and age as a necessity.

The NHL originally had plans to expand to two markets every two years in the 1970s to offset the footprint of the WHA. Which is what happened until the ill-fated Denver/Seattle combination and then economics of the time, failing NHL franchises, the desperation of the WHA, etc. changed the course of the sport.

 

[wetcoast]

At the time, players had an option to jump leagues. Bernie Parent, for instance, was under contract to the Maple Leafs but he jumped to the first-year Miami WHA franchise which never got underway due to lack of funding for a proposed arena. The team immediately moved to Philadelphia where it played at an outdated facility one where the Zamboni cracked the ice and the game was canceled. The same franchise signed Derek Sanderson for what was reported to be the largest contract in team sports at the time. The Blazers moved to Vancouver after one season and had financial woes which led Parent to make another choice: return to Toronto, play for a WHA franchise with whom he had disagreements over payments, or request a trade/sit out. His stay in Philadelphia with the WHA convinced him that he wanted to return to the city where he once played in the NHL. The Leafs and Flyers worked out a trade and he returned to the NHL.

Not many franchises in the WHA were solvent. Some made big splashes for attention. But few could operate in the black. Indianapolis, for instance, had about half the spectators on average needed to help pay bills. Players now have lucrative contracts and certainly overseas hockey is more viable than it was in say the mid-70s.

Especially with TV contracts, the impact to the NHL is massive. Hockey in the mid 70s was vastly different. I read a story once that one game in the 1974 NHL Finals (Flyers and Bruins) was aired on PBS in New York because the local NBC network didn't want to replace popular TV shows on at the time. The NBA Finals in 1978 and/or 1979 was shown on tape delay in some markets. Then of course came the influx of cable TV and certain players who became household names. But for hockey and the NHL, I don't see the WHA in today's day and age as a necessity.

The NHL originally had plans to expand to two markets every two years in the 1970s to offset the footprint of the WHA. Which is what happened until the ill-fated Denver/Seattle combination and then economics of the time, failing NHL franchises, the desperation of the WHA, etc. changed the course of the sport.

Fair enough but I really think that if there was competition in the WHA or another form to the NHL we also would have not seen any work stoppages by the owners of NHL teams 3 times and perhaps would have never seen the likes of Gary Bettman.

At least a guy can dream right?

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Fair enough but I really think that if there was competition in the WHA or another form to the NHL we also would have not seen any work stoppages by the owners of NHL teams 3 times and perhaps would have never seen the likes of Gary Bettman.

At least a guy can dream right?

You could be right. But we could have seen other work stoppages or perhaps strikes if some teams were finally insolvent. "If" can change the course of history in many avenues. Arenas have to be made available and with so many multi-purpose facilities (other sports, concerts, etc.) and the expanded playoffs for leagues such as the NBA and the NHL, dates would be a major issue. Again, "if" but part of sports is bar talk or chatter on the internet. Debates are part of the lure.

 

[kaiser matias]

Then, to top it off, the WHA All-Star game, which was played in Edmonton (remembered for Gordie Howe and still 17-year-old Wayne Gretzky playing together), was not in fact an All Star "game", but was three games between Dynamo Moscow and the WHA All-Stars. I've never heard of anything like that in any sport.

At least in regard to this, the NHL has done something similar a couple times: the 1979 Challenge Cup, and the 1987 Rendez-Vous both were NHL teams against a Soviet side, replacing that year's all-star game.

 

[The Panther]

At least in regard to this, the NHL has done something similar a couple times: the 1979 Challenge Cup, and the 1987 Rendez-Vous both were NHL teams against a Soviet side, replacing that year's all-star game.

Actually, you're right -- Rendezvous '87 was very similar, I guess. (Two games, though, not three.)

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I've never really understood what happened in that final WHA season of 1978-79. Well before my time, so I've just heard stories about it.

So, it seems there were only 7 clubs left at the start of that season. But then Indianapolis folded after 25 games (they sold Gretzky to Edmonton after eight games), leaving only 6 clubs... in mid-season. So then, how did the rest of the schedule work? Wouldn't one club's suddenly becoming defunct in mid-season require the entire season schedule to be completely redone? And surely there'd be really fair way to do that. Then, a bunch of the Indianapolis players (like Blaine Stoughton, Mark Messier, and others) suddenly moved, at the drop of a hat (?), to other pro teams to finish the season. How'd that work?

To make it even weirder, the "Soviet All Stars" and Czechoslovakia played 1 game against each WHA team (I think... anyway, they played 6 apiece), and these games counted in the WHA standings (!). Weirder still, Finland is recorded as having played 1 game only against the WHA... and it, too, counted in the standings. So, who'd they play? This is all bizarre to me.

Then, to top it off, the WHA All-Star game, which was played in Edmonton (remembered for Gordie Howe and still 17-year-old Wayne Gretzky playing together), was not in fact an All Star "game", but was three games between Dynamo Moscow and the WHA All-Stars. I've never heard of anything like that in any sport.

By the way, I'm also curious as to why/how New England/Hartford ended up being approved for joining the NHL the following season. I get that the top-four teams in the standings (Edmonton, Quebec, Winnipeg, 'New England'/Hartford) made it in for the 1979-80 NHL season... but why was Hartford approved? It was never a very stable market and not an overly big urban area, and adding it made the NHL 21 teams, creating imbalanced divisions (that would last until 1991-92). It just seems odd to me that when the NHL and its gray-beard owners were so anti-WHA that they'd allow an unlikely market like that to join.

Can anyone address any of these things?

Don't see why you would consider Winnipeg any better of a market than Hartford.

Anyway, there was not going to be a merger without Hartford because of Howard Baldwin. Was in on the WHA from the start, founded the Whalers and was the league's best snake oil salesman. He was the president of the WHA and he was the main merger negotiator for the league.

 

[PurpleMouse]

A few things here:

- Were the Racers the only team to fold mid-season? I know other WHA teams moved mid-season (the famous "national anthem" story for players of Denver Spurs/Ottawa Civics is somewhat famous.)

- It's weird how much of a WHA powerhouse Houston was, and how close they were to being involved in earlier merger talks, but weren't even around for final season. Given that three WHA teams moved and Edmonton just barely survived not doing so, I don't think it's a stretch to say that if Houston made it into the NHL they probably would have been the strongest, most stable market of all the WHA teams.

- I believe Ed Snider proposed a merger after the first season, offering to let in all 12 WHA teams which would have put the NHL to 28 teams, in theory. I'd bet if the NHL approved it they wouldn't have gone to 28 teams as a few WHA teams were just hanging on- Raiders, Nationals, and Blazers all moved or rebranded in the off-season. There's also the issue of competition in LA, Chicago, and Minnesota so there probably would have been some offer to buy those teams out. (Although the idea of one team in Minneapolis and another in St. Paul would be fascinating).

Thoughts on a potential 1973 merger....

- One of the legacies, IMO, of the WHA is helping fast-track the involvement of international & American talent in the NHL. I'd have to say that would have happened anyway even after a year one merger because there would be a scarcity of talent.

- Obviously in real life different things would happen, but hypothetically, this could have led to no NHL expansion for 20 years. It's not impossible that the league stays more financial stable with no competition, allowing the Seals to stay in Oakland and therefore no expansion to San Jose in 1991. The possibilities are endless.

 

[Sanf]

The original schedule plan was for each to team play all six WHA opponents 13 times in 1978-79 plus one game each against touring teams from Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia. Teams existed in Quebec, Edmonton, Winnipeg, New England, Cincinnati, Birmingham and Indianapolis. That would produce an 80-game schedule. Adjustments were made after Indianapolis conceded operations but in order for Edmonton to reach 80 games they played a touring Finland team (March 20, 8-4 Oilers' win).

Yep. Oilers played against Sisu Team which was sort of development team of Finnish national team (sometimes called B national team. but thats not the best definition). This also makes a bit of trivia because Jari Kurri played in Sisu Team. So the first "official" game in NA for Jari Kurri wasn´t with Oilers, but against Oilers.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

A few things here:

- Were the Racers the only team to fold mid-season? I know other WHA teams moved mid-season (the famous "national anthem" story for players of Denver Spurs/Ottawa Civics is somewhat famous.)

- It's weird how much of a WHA powerhouse Houston was, and how close they were to being involved in earlier merger talks, but weren't even around for final season. Given that three WHA teams moved and Edmonton just barely survived not doing so, I don't think it's a stretch to say that if Houston made it into the NHL they probably would have been the strongest, most stable market of all the WHA teams.

- I believe Ed Snider proposed a merger after the first season, offering to let in all 12 WHA teams which would have put the NHL to 28 teams, in theory. I'd bet if the NHL approved it they wouldn't have gone to 28 teams as a few WHA teams were just hanging on- Raiders, Nationals, and Blazers all moved or rebranded in the off-season. There's also the issue of competition in LA, Chicago, and Minnesota so there probably would have been some offer to buy those teams out. (Although the idea of one team in Minneapolis and another in St. Paul would be fascinating).

Thoughts on a potential 1973 merger....

- One of the legcacies, IMO, of the WHA is helping fast-track the involvement of international & American talent in the NHL. I'd have to say that would have happened anyway even after a year one merger because there would be a scarcity of talent.

- Obviously in real life different things would happen, but hypothetically, this could have led to no NHL expansion for 20 years. It's not impossible that the league stays more financial stable with no competition, allowing the Seals to stay in Oakland and therefore no expansion to San Jose in 1991. The possibilities are endless.

No.

The Minnesota Fighting Saints folded mid-season twice, 1975-76 and 1976-77. The first franchise (59 games) was nearly moved to South Florida. The group was led by Bill Putnam who was an architect of the early Philadelphia Flyers and same with the Atlanta Flames but the WHA voted against a relocation and opted for the team to be dissolved.

Following the demise of the first franchise, the Cleveland Crusaders relocated to Minnesota and that team also folded mid-season (42 games). However, the Crusaders almost relocated to South Florida instead and to become the Florida Breakers. There was advertising for the franchise at the time since it appeared to be a solid transaction. But the two parties couldn't agree on certain terms. This was borne out of the Cleveland Barons securing the Seals' NHL franchise from the Bay Area in California.

In summary, two Minnesota Fighting Saints' franchises folded mid-season in consecutive years.

The Ottawa Civics, after relocating earlier in the season from Denver, folded prior to the end of the 1975-76 season. That team existed for about two weeks.

The Indianapolis Racers as explained in a prior post didn't make it through the 1978-79 season.

Not that it is part of the original question but Putnam tried to relocate the San Diego Mariners to South Florida later. The California team was owned by McDonald's owner Ray Kroc. A second group also tried to relocate the Mariners to South Florida but that also failed.

 

[kaiser matias]

No.

The Minnesota Fighting Saints folded mid-season twice, 1975-76 and 1976-77. The first franchise (59 games) was nearly moved to South Florida. The group was led by Bill Putnam who was an architect of the early Philadelphia Flyers and same with the Atlanta Flames but the WHA voted against a relocation and opted for the team to be dissolved.

Following the demise of the first franchise, the Cleveland Crusaders relocated to Minnesota and that team also folded mid-season (42 games). However, the Crusaders almost relocated to South Florida instead and to become the Florida Breakers. There was advertising for the franchise at the time since it appeared to be a solid transaction. But the two parties couldn't agree on certain teams. This was borne out of the Cleveland Barons securing the Seals' NHL franchise from the Bay Area in California.

In summary, two Fighting Saints' franchises folded mid-season in consecutive years.

The Ottawa Civics, after relocating earlier in the season from Denver, folded prior to the end of the 1975-76 season. That team existed for about two weeks.

The Indianapolis Racers as explained in a prior post didn't make it through the 1978-79 season.

Not that it is part of the original question but Putnam tried to relocate the San Diego Mariners to South Florida later. The California team was owned by McDonald's owner Ray Kroc. A second group also tried to relocate the Mariners to South Florida but that also failed.

Would have been very interesting to have major pro hockey in Florida starting in the 1970s. How long it would/could last is an interesting discussion as well, and what that could have done for the sport.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Would have been very interesting to have major pro hockey in Florida starting in the 1970s. How long it would/could last is an interesting discussion as well, and what that could have done for the sport.

The Miami team in the WHA's first year signed Bernie Parent. The league was supposed to open its inaugural season in Miami with the new arena as the face of the rebel league. The owner acquired land to build the arena but then it hit a major snag over a city ordinance requiring a certain amount of parking spaces. Then there was a financial matter with the WHA. The arena never got built. There were discussions with a concert venue named the Hollywood Sportatorium which has since been demolished. It was just north of Miami (in what is now Shayne Gostisbehere's home town) about 10 miles from where the Panthers play. One major issue at the time was the building lacked air conditioning so very unlikely it could support hockey.

The later close-calls were to play in this facility if granted the franchise. By then the owner, who also built the nearby horse track named after himself (Calder), installed AC with the hope of luring a hockey or basketball franchise. That never materialized. Some of the best rock bands at the time passed through this building.

I don't think the NHL would have considered the facility up to their standards based on the renovations if say the Cleveland Crusaders moved to the area in the mid-70s and there had been a merger. Plus, traffic getting in and out of the arena could be nightmarish.

Sure, it could have been interesting. The area had an ABA team called the Floridians who were probably best known for their cheerleaders. The team didn't draw very well. I don't think the WHA would have been any more successful than say Birmingham or Cincinnati at the time. The Dolphins were the only top pro game in town but hockey in a somewhat isolated area as the Sportatorium would have had difficulties.

 

[The Panther]

Don't see why you would consider Winnipeg any better of a market than Hartford.

I just meant in the sense that Quebec, Edmonton, and Winnipeg were Canadian cities with long-established minor-pro and pro teams, with a guaranteed large and stable fanbase. Connecticut isn't necessarily a non-traditional market in that it's snowy and had a long hockey history, but much of New England's history (so I think) was in Boston. Then, Hartford wasn't a big place then (or now), and was sandwiched between New York and Boston. The "small market" and Canadian dollar-problems weren't really issues in the late-70s, since working-class people could easily afford pro hockey games then. As long as it was a Canadian city, you were set with enough fans.

I mean, history kind of shows that Hartford didn't pan out that well, attendance-wise. Of course, we could argue about whether that's because the team sucked or because of the market...

 

[Bluesguru]

No.

The Minnesota Fighting Saints folded mid-season twice, 1975-76 and 1976-77. The first franchise (59 games) was nearly moved to South Florida. The group was led by Bill Putnam who was an architect of the early Philadelphia Flyers and same with the Atlanta Flames but the WHA voted against a relocation and opted for the team to be dissolved.

Following the demise of the first franchise, the Cleveland Crusaders relocated to Minnesota and that team also folded mid-season (42 games). However, the Crusaders almost relocated to South Florida instead and to become the Florida Breakers. There was advertising for the franchise at the time since it appeared to be a solid transaction. But the two parties couldn't agree on certain teams. This was borne out of the Cleveland Barons securing the Seals' NHL franchise from the Bay Area in California.

In summary, two Fighting Saints' franchises folded mid-season in consecutive years.

The Ottawa Civics, after relocating earlier in the season from Denver, folded prior to the end of the 1975-76 season. That team existed for about two weeks.

The Indianapolis Racers as explained in a prior post didn't make it through the 1978-79 season.

Not that it is part of the original question but Putnam tried to relocate the San Diego Mariners to South Florida later. The California team was owned by McDonald's owner Ray Kroc. A second group also tried to relocate the Mariners to South Florida but that also failed.

Florida Breakers? I wonder if that’s where the TV Show Coach with Craig T Nelson came up with Orlando Breakers -ha

 

[Bluesguru]

I just meant in the sense that Quebec, Edmonton, and Winnipeg were Canadian cities with long-established minor-pro and pro teams, with a guaranteed large and stable fanbase. Connecticut isn't necessarily a non-traditional market in that it's snowy and had a long hockey history, but much of New England's history (so I think) was in Boston. Then, Hartford wasn't a big place then (or now), and was sandwiched between New York and Boston. The "small market" and Canadian dollar-problems weren't really issues in the late-70s, since working-class people could easily afford pro hockey games then. As long as it was a Canadian city, you were set with enough fans.

I mean, history kind of shows that Hartford didn't pan out that well, attendance-wise. Of course, we could argue about whether that's because the team sucked or because of the market...

I always thought Hartford loved the Whalers and had a strong fan base. Not so?

 

[The Panther]

I always thought Hartford loved the Whalers and had a strong fan base. Not so?

I could be wrong, but my impression was that the club often had modest attendance.

This is what's written on their franchise's Wiki article (no source given, so I dunno if it's accurate):

"The Whalers were never as successful in the NHL as they had been in the WHA, yet they attracted a decent fan base over the years, most living outside of Hartford which contributed to low attendance at home games many seasons."

"Hartford was the smallest American market in the NHL and was located on the traditional dividing line between the home territories for Boston and New York area teams. This limited the team's marketability. Additionally, for most of the Whalers' tenure as an NHL team, the Hartford Civic Center was one of the smallest arenas in the league. At its maximum, it seated just 15,635 for hockey. The team averaged over 14,000 fans only twice in its 15 years at the Civic Center. They averaged only 13,867 from 1980 to 1997."

I mean, an average of almost 14,000 isn't bad considering the team's struggles... would the Canucks have had attendance that high in the 80s?

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Florida Breakers? I wonder if that’s where the TV Show Coach with Craig T Nelson came up with Orlando Breakers -ha

There was a USFL team named the Breakers which played in three cities in three years. The franchise began in Boston but that city lacked a proper pro football facility (played in a smaller stadium; other factors with larger regional stadiums were stunted) and the team moved to New Orleans and then Portland, OR.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I just meant in the sense that Quebec, Edmonton, and Winnipeg were Canadian cities with long-established minor-pro and pro teams, with a guaranteed large and stable fanbase. Connecticut isn't necessarily a non-traditional market in that it's snowy and had a long hockey history, but much of New England's history (so I think) was in Boston. Then, Hartford wasn't a big place then (or now), and was sandwiched between New York and Boston. The "small market" and Canadian dollar-problems weren't really issues in the late-70s, since working-class people could easily afford pro hockey games then. As long as it was a Canadian city, you were set with enough fans.

I mean, history kind of shows that Hartford didn't pan out that well, attendance-wise. Of course, we could argue about whether that's because the team sucked or because of the market...

True, Hartford didn't pan out, but neither did Winnipeg or Quebec. And I would imagine Edmonton may have been in the same boat if not for Gretzky and company. If that roster had been in Hartford I'm sure they would have done pretty well.

Connecticut's a small state with lots of wealthy people, as it was in the 70's. No one in state is more than 90 minutes from Hartford. New Haven had pro teams going back to the 1920's. There was lots of interest but too many bad teams. In 18 seasons the Whalers had 3 teams that were over .500 and won one playoff series. Tough to hold a fan base like that.

Anyway, the joke back then around the league was "what's worse than a Monday night in Hartford? A Tuesday night in Winnipeg". Depending on where you were, I guess you could switch the days or city. But that seemed to be the feeling of players and media at the time.

 

[sr edler]

Yep. Oilers played against Sisu Team which was sort of development team of Finnish national team (sometimes called B national team. but thats not the best definition). This also makes a bit of trivia because Jari Kurri played in Sisu Team. So the first "official" game in NA for Jari Kurri wasn´t with Oilers, but against Oilers.

Sweden had a similar (or perhaps identical) team colloquially called Vikingarna ("the Vikings"), effectively a B national team. Vikingarna and the Sisu team must have played each other a lot, I guess. That team (Vikingarna) is not my field of expertise at all but I did sweep in on its Swedish (and only) wiki page "Sveriges B-landslag i ishockey" now and there, in the 5th paragraph, it says they played teams from the WHA in March and December 1978, so the December games I guess was part of the 1978–79 WHA season? (or not)

Apparently they lost decisively against the Oilers (2-11) and the Nordiques (3-7) and more narrowly against the Jets (3-4).

 

[Bluesguru]

True, Hartford didn't pan out, but neither did Winnipeg or Quebec. And I would imagine Edmonton may have been in the same boat if not for Gretzky and company. If that roster had been in Hartford I'm sure they would have done pretty well.

Connecticut's a small state with lots of wealthy people, as it was in the 70's. No one in state is more than 90 minutes from Hartford. New Haven had pro teams going back to the 1920's. There was lots of interest but too many bad teams. In 18 seasons the Whalers had 3 teams that were over .500 and won one playoff series. Tough to hold a fan base like that.

Anyway, the joke back then around the league was "what's worse than a Monday night in Hartford? A Tuesday night in Winnipeg". Depending on where you were, I guess you could switch the days or city. But that seemed to be the feeling of players and media at the time.

Man, I didn't know Hartford had that many bad teams. How bout that 81 team that had Howe, Hull and Dave Keon, who played very well in his return to the NHL. But I always remembered those great Whaler teams from 86 and early 90's with Ferraro, Francis, etc. Seemed like Whalers and Canadiens always hooked up in the playoffs back then. Great point about what if Gretzky and the boys were in Hartford instead of Edmonton, the Whale would have lived on. I miss that team a lot....................and what's the deal with the Panthers? That's a move that's inevitable. The NHL should just move that team now.