Terrible world cup ideas

[cutchemist42]

I admit, I'm taking some leaps in logic here, mostly based on my inborn willingness to disbelieve that a man could propose such lunacy in the first place... despite already being proven wrong times and again in the past.

The tournament format bit is of course anybody's guess. I simply see that as the most likely (given the total number of games and all) if there are to be only six teams.

And honestly, I can't see how they really would consider a possibility where a collection team could actually be crowned a champion of this... thing. It just wouldn't make much of a marketable narrative. So either they fix things heavily against them in the group stage, or be more honest about it and make 'em a sideshow. Also, somebody must have considered that these groups simply can't play with the same fire and motivation as if they were to represent a "proper" national team. And finally there's the whole issue of getting the concerned federations (not to mention the players themselves) to agree to it. I guess there's not a technical need for it, but bypassing that step could really creep up to them in the future in a number of ways. But eh, could be this is really just me trying to see sense in places where there really is none.

The thing I'm 100% positive about is however that this will NOT be limited to players based in NA only. No way certain feds will agree to that. Those that think they will or figure the NHL has strong-armed them to it by using olympic participation as bait are seriously out of touch with how hockey in Europe works (which is not really a rare thing around here, tbh).

I do remember from 2004 though that the NHL actually had a veto right they could exercise if they did not wish a particular player to participate. But it did not prevent teams from using players based in Europe, and we will see a handful of KHLers in the mix this time round as well. Especially if they really want to have Russia in this, that is a must.

There is another international hockey forum where many users posted stories how the Czech fed got heavily strong-armed by the NHL to use more NHL Czech players, so the NHL has tampered with team selection in the past. Posts were from years ago.

 

[Theokritos]

I do remember from 2004 though that the NHL actually had a veto right they could exercise if they did not wish a particular player to participate.

There is another international hockey forum where many users posted stories how the Czech fed got heavily strong-armed by the NHL to use more NHL Czech players

Wow, never heard of that. If that is true then no-one should ever argue in favour of an NHL-organized best on best tournament again, not even if we wake up tomorrow and discover the Centennial Joke was only a bad dream we had.

 

[cutchemist42]

Wow, never heard of that. If that is true then no-one should ever argue in favour of an NHL-organized best on best tournament again, not even if we wake up tomorrow and discover the Centennial Joke was only a bad dream we had.

Stories buried somewhere on this forum.

http://www.internationalhockey.net/forums/forum.php

 

[FiLe]

Wow, never heard of that. If that is true then no-one should ever argue in favour of an NHL-organized best on best tournament again, not even if we wake up tomorrow and discover the Centennial Joke was only a bad dream we had.

Yeah. It stuck to mind, because one player they blocked entry from was a Finn. D-man Jere Karalahti was selected to the 2004 Team Finland, but he had had issues with substance abuse and rather than complete the agreed-upon rehab program he skipped back to Europe the year before. After that, the league wanted nothing to do with him. In that case they had a somewhat valid reasoning at least.

As far those stories concerning the Czechs go, they do seem have something of a habit to pick inferior players from Europe instead of perfectly fine NHL regulars. Latest occasion was as late as in Sochi. Worked out for them about as well as one could expect, IMO.

I could see the NHL interfering if they feel such choices are made for mostly out of spite. Though I have to admit that in principle, it still violates the coaches' or GM's right to pick whoever the heck they like. And if this time around, the league is actually trying to make teams select inferior players from the minors instead of Europe-based NT regulars, that's a new low for them.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Additional players for team Finland if necessary.

Jake Virtanen
Matt Niskanen
Magnus Pääjärvi
Mika Simpaneva

Shame Virtanen is Canadian and Niskanen is American.

 

[FiLe]

Shame Virtanen is Canadian and Niskanen is American.

Duuuuh, man.

And the two others are Swedes. Nice going "Finnishsizing" Zibanejad's name, btw.

However, the World Cup organizers have been known to play fast and loose with nationality requirements. For example in 2004, Dainius Zubrus played for Russia despite being Lithuanian as far as his IIHF eligibility is concerned. So Zibanejad could rank, since his mom is Finnish.

Similarly at least Virtanen could qualify, since he has a Finnish dad and a Finnish passport.

 

[Urbanskog]

However, the World Cup organizers have been known to play fast and loose with nationality requirements. For example in 2004, Dainius Zubrus played for Russia despite being Lithuanian as far as his IIHF eligibility is concerned.

That's because the World Cup is an unsanctioned tournament. Thus, nothing would prevent Rask playing for the USA, Zetterberg for the Czech Republic and Crosby for Russia.

 

[FiLe]

That's because the World Cup is an unsanctioned tournament. Thus, nothing would prevent Rask playing for the USA, Zetterberg for the Czech Republic and Crosby for Russia.

In theory, yes. Though I think in reality they at least have the decency to demand that a player actually is a citizen of the country he's supposed to represent. Zubrus has dual citizenship.

Out of the four players listed, as far as I'm aware, only Virtanen actually has a Finnish passport. So as far as the World Cup is concerned, FIHA could have him for this tournament if Hockey Canada isn't interested. Not that it will actually come to that.

 

[Jonimaus]

In theory, yes. Though I think in reality they at least have the decency to demand that a player actually is a citizen of the country he's supposed to represent. Zubrus has dual citizenship.

Out of the four players listed, as far as I'm aware, only Virtanen actually has a Finnish passport. So as far as the World Cup is concerned, FIHA could have him for this tournament if Hockey Canada isn't interested. Not that it will actually come to that.

What country is "European all-star"?

 

[Canuckistani]

That's because the World Cup is an unsanctioned tournament. Thus, nothing would prevent Rask playing for the USA, Zetterberg for the Czech Republic and Crosby for Russia.

Does IIHF sanctioning on eligibility even matter any more?

Petr Nedved played for Canada at the 1994 Olympics and for the Czechs in Sochi and at the 2012 WHC.

I thought that once you picked a country to play for you couldn't change.

 

[FiLe]

Does IIHF sanctioning on eligibility even matter any more?

Petr Nedved played for Canada at the 1994 Olympics and for the Czechs in Sochi and at the 2012 WHC.

I thought that once you picked a country to play for you couldn't change.

Then you thought wrong and should've educated yourself.

A player can switch, but in order to do so, they must a) be a citizen and b) play for four consecutive seasons in a club team based in the country he wishes to represent. Or two seasons, if one is a naturalized citizen that has not represented another country at an earlier date. And the seasons must indeed be consecutive. If a player moves into a club that operates in another country, the counter resets. They may, however, switch clubs freely within said country. Leagues, too. For example a player who might wish to become a Finn may start out in Liiga, but can move to Jokerit if presented an opportunity. Any other KHL club however won't do.

Nedved's first entry into international hockey was in Lillehammer 1994, locking him as a Canadian 'til the end of his NHL career. However, in 2007 he skipped back to Czech Republic and after playing for Liberec for four seasons, he got back his right to represent the Czechs from 2011-12 season onwards.

While it may sound cheap, it's actually one of the stricter principles for switching jerseys in the general world of sports.

 

[Urbanskog]

Does IIHF sanctioning on eligibility even matter any more?

Petr Nedved played for Canada at the 1994 Olympics and for the Czechs in Sochi and at the 2012 WHC.

I thought that once you picked a country to play for you couldn't change.

You have to play four seasons in the country you want to represent internationally in case you have previously represented another country.

 

[jekoh]

As far those stories concerning the Czechs go, they do seem have something of a habit to pick inferior players from Europe instead of perfectly fine NHL regulars. Latest occasion was as late as in Sochi. Worked out for them about as well as one could expect, IMO.

And they picked "inferior" players in Nagano too, no wonder they failed after their triumph at the 96 world cup with a team full of "superior" NHL regulars.

 

[FiLe]

And they picked "inferior" players in Nagano too, no wonder they failed after their triumph at the 96 world cup with a team full of "superior" NHL regulars.

In '96 they didn't have Dominik Hasek.

 

[Canuckistani]

In '96 they didn't have Dominik Hasek.

Indeed the Czechs had about the same number of European-based players in 96 and they did in 98.

Hasek made all the difference.

 

[jekoh]

Hasek made all the difference.

He outshot Canada all by himself.

And who can forget his 4 goals against the USA?

 

[FiLe]

To be fair, it would have been difficult to see the Czechs work their way around a staggering 4-17 goal difference, even with Hasek in net. Even if you discount the embarrassing 7-1 defeat to Germany, 3-10 still indicates that in '96, they had issues elsewhere than just in net.

 

[Canuckistani]

He outshot Canada all by himself.

And who can forget his 4 goals against the USA?

Oh boy, a literalist.

Anyway, I believe your original point was that the Czechs went with NHLers in 96 and more Euros in 98 when in reality they had the same number of non-NHLers on the roster (12) each year, and had pretty much the same group of core forwards.

The biggest difference between the two teams was unquestionably in net.

 

[jekoh]

Oh boy, a literalist.

Anyway, I believe your original point was that the Czechs went with NHLers in 96 and more Euros in 98 when in reality they had the same number of non-NHLers on the roster (12) each year, and had pretty much the same group of core forwards.

The biggest difference between the two teams was unquestionably in net.

No my original point was that the Czechs choose Europe based players in 98 over NHL players and they were not any worse off for it rather to the contrary.

They had 2 more nhlers in 96 btw (admittedly not that big a difference)

 

[Jussi]

To be fair, it would have been difficult to see the Czechs work their way around a staggering 4-17 goal difference, even with Hasek in net. Even if you discount the embarrassing 7-1 defeat to Germany, 3-10 still indicates that in '96, they had issues elsewhere than just in net.

It was evident to everyone who watched them play that they completely mailed it in. It's a habit for the Czechs, one tournament they can look like World Champions, the next like battling for relegation.

 

[FiLe]

Official source, FIHA Chairman Kalervo Kummola just spilled the beans:

Six "regular" NTs will participate. Other two teams are indeed "Team Europe" and "Team Young Guns", but as of now, they're conditional. The idea is still on the sounding board, the final decision to include them will be made in May. Apparently they still need to chart the players' willingness to play for the Mickey Mouse teams and listen for general response to the idea. It was noted it's not been very positive thus far.

No limitations to player eligibility, apparently. The feds participating can build their teams using players from any league they like.

 

[ebis]

Bettman: "Dear Slovakia and Switzerland, I respectfully deem you not worthy of attempting to win the World Cup of hockey. But please, send your best players to play for this new rad team that I made up, it will make us some money!"

 

[Canuckistani]

Official source, FIHA Chairman Kalervo Kummola just spilled the beans:

Six "regular" NTs will participate. Other two teams are indeed "Team Europe" and "Team Young Guns", but as of now, they're conditional. The idea is still on the sounding board, the final decision to include them will be made in May. Apparently they still need to chart the players' willingness to play for the Mickey Mouse teams and listen for general response to the idea. It was noted it's not been very positive thus far.

No limitations to player eligibility, apparently. The feds participating can build their teams using players from any league they like.

So the NHL needs another five months to figure out what the rest of us knew the second we first heard of this moronic idea.

Good lord.

Maybe by then the fair and obvious choice (SLOVAKIA & SWITZERLAND) will finally sink in.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

http://www.courierpostonline.com/st...ne-flyer-happy-new-world-cup-format/22192403/

Mark Streit first of what will be many nhler's voicing their opinion of this garbage.

 

[Canuckistani]

http://www.courierpostonline.com/st...ne-flyer-happy-new-world-cup-format/22192403/

Mark Streit first of what will be many nhler's voicing their opinion of this garbage.

Imagine being a Swiss player who has steadily seen his rather rise through the hockey ranks. Defeating Czechs and Canada in Turin, taking Canada to a shootout in Vancouver, beating Czechs in Sochi, making the WHC final in 2013.

And then along comes Bettman to tell you that your team is so crappy that you'll have to play on the Euro Leftover squad.

A more disrespectful move is hard to imagine.

Every Swiss and Slovak player should tell the NHL to piss off, or if they have to play then put in the most half-assed games of shinny the world has ever seen.