Terrible world cup ideas

[1Gold Standard]

The fun thing is that team Sweden would probably be the winner of this format. (if only NHL'ers)

(not that team Canada would be hurt, they got plenty of "golden oldies" to form a great team without kids)

which won't be an entirely bad thing (a Canadian loss) imo, as Hockey Canada tends to be too loyal to the "golden oldies" until they prove they are not quite up to snuff anymore. So, better to lose this contrived nonsense than Olympics. (provided of course NHLers are still playing Olympics in 3 years time).

 

[1Gold Standard]

Anyone know if the khl has confirmed anything regarding participation?

I really hope they don't join this travesty and also so I can see Finland ice goaltenders as defensemen, as well as Russian forwards playing D.

According to this report from a few days ago, the Russian Ice Hockey Federation is in...still a few details to be worked out, but nothing that would derail their participation.

http://www.sovsport.md/news/text-item/772662


but I am hoping this goes off the rails. Big Time.

 

[JackSlater]

Okay, let's take a step back and think logically for a moment. This is happening. The national federations of the countries that were sent an invitation are on board, otherwise they wouldn't be ready to disclose further details. It'd be pretty stupid of them to say "yeah, this is how we'll do it" and only after then hear for example the Russians say "yeah, nope, won't fly with us".

They can be stupid, but can they really be that stupid? There must be something lost in translation between their actual plans and these premature details we've heard about it this far. So let's try and clear the signal of the noise.


Calling it now:

The tournament proper will comprise only of the top-six invited countries. "Team Leftovers" and "Team YoungGunz" are tacked-on exhibition. The other squads (or maybe just some, but not all) will play against them, but it's all in the name of fun and games. Having just six teams, not eight also synchronizes well with the intent of having the final series a best-of-three.

The format of the tournament proper will be a simple group of six, all teams facing each other once. The best two teams will play in the final series.

The "100% NHL players" does NOT mean that only NA-based players are allowed or that they even must be first-choice. It simply means that every player under contract in the league is available. While building the final teams however, the federations can actually use whoever they prefer, no matter where they play. Because, duh, the league must be aware that they've already invited teams like Finland and Russia that certainly can't fill the "100% NHL" clause no matter what. And why in the F would anybody want to deliberately weaken them by making 'em scrape for players in the minors when they have better guys available in Europe? Besides, it's not like that well is bottomless either, especially for European countries.

It's a tough day for countries like Slovakia and Switzerland who may feel left out, but hey, it's an invitational event. You don't get the slip, what can you do? Also, that "U23 first choice" thing is part of the noise. If they feel like picking, say, MacKinnon for Team Canada proper, of course he gets to play in Team Canada proper. At worst, he'll have to play in two squads, when Team YoungGunz will face some of the top Euro teams in a series of friendlies.


This is what we'll hear on Friday, or at least very close. Book it.

That would be a very positive outcome. I highly doubt that the NHL would propose such a format though. They are obviously targetting North American viewers first and foremost, and North American viewers expect most eliminations to be done via a playoff system. A round robin followed by a final, with no other games in between, would be viewed as very strange and I can't see the NHL proposing it.

I think you are overanalysing things. I think NHL simply said "Be on board, or there is no chance we make our players available for the Olympics".

I also expect that the NHL has attempted to tie participation with this tournament in with participation in the Olympics. That would be a silver lining I suppose.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Okay, let's take a step back and think logically for a moment. This is happening. The national federations of the countries that were sent an invitation are on board, otherwise they wouldn't be ready to disclose further details. It'd be pretty stupid of them to say "yeah, this is how we'll do it" and only after then hear for example the Russians say "yeah, nope, won't fly with us".

They can be stupid, but can they really be that stupid? There must be something lost in translation between their actual plans and these premature details we've heard about it this far. So let's try and clear the signal of the noise.


Calling it now:

The tournament proper will comprise only of the top-six invited countries. "Team Leftovers" and "Team YoungGunz" are tacked-on exhibition. The other squads (or maybe just some, but not all) will play against them, but it's all in the name of fun and games. Having just six teams, not eight also synchronizes well with the intent of having the final series a best-of-three.

The format of the tournament proper will be a simple group of six, all teams facing each other once. The best two teams will play in the final series.

The "100% NHL players" does NOT mean that only NA-based players are allowed or that they even must be first-choice. It simply means that every player under contract in the league is available. While building the final teams however, the federations can actually use whoever they prefer, no matter where they play. Because, duh, the league must be aware that they've already invited teams like Finland and Russia that certainly can't fill the "100% NHL" clause no matter what. And why in the F would anybody want to deliberately weaken them by making 'em scrape for players in the minors when they have better guys available in Europe? Besides, it's not like that well is bottomless either, especially for European countries.

It's a tough day for countries like Slovakia and Switzerland who may feel left out, but hey, it's an invitational event. You don't get the slip, what can you do? Also, that "U23 first choice" thing is part of the noise. If they feel like picking, say, MacKinnon for Team Canada proper, of course he gets to play in Team Canada proper. At worst, he'll have to play in two squads, when Team YoungGunz will face some of the top Euro teams in a series of friendlies.


This is what we'll hear on Friday, or at least very close. Book it.

Really doubt it. Why would the other Euro players agree to join Team Leftovers simply for the purpose of an exhibition game?

Unfortunately, I think the rumours we've heard is what the tournament will be.

 

[Canuckistani]

I also expect that the NHL has attempted to tie participation with this tournament in with participation in the Olympics. That would be a silver lining I suppose.

If that's the case then I'm fine with this stupid tournament.

At least then I can ignore it and be confident that a real tournament is scheduled for 2018.

 

[cutchemist42]

If that's the case then I'm fine with this stupid tournament.

At least then I can ignore it and be confident that a real tournament is scheduled for 2018.

This is all I want, the NHL gets its Canadian cash grab to appease them, while not taking away a good product that makes me view the NHL in a good light.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

There aren't enough Finns, Czechs or Russians in the NHL for them to field complete teams.

You are wrong. So far this season in the NHL there have been:

Sweden.........30 skaters/9 goalies
Czech............30 skaters/4 goalies
Finland...........24 skaters/9 goalies
Russia............25 skaters/6 goalies
And easily enough Swiss/Slovak/Dutch/French/Slovenia/Latvia etc to make a Euro team

The reason why they have chosen this format is so that they can AND WILL use 100% NHL players.

If you want to crap on this tournament, or me, go ahead. Just do a bit of research first.

 

[1Gold Standard]

You are wrong. So far this season in the NHL there have been:

And easily enough Swiss/Slovak/Dutch/French/Slovenia/Latvia etc to make a Euro team

The reason why they have chosen this format is so that they can AND WILL use Sweden.........30 skaters/9 goalies
Czech............30 skaters/4 goalies
Finland...........24 skaters/9 goalies
Russia............25 skaters/6 goalies
100% NHL players.

If you want to crap on this tournament, or me, go ahead. Just do a bit of research first.

and everyone of those players are 100% National Team elite level players? Not even close. Finland and Russia will have to use KHL players. but I don't care. I won't be watching this lunacy. I'm just going to enjoy laughing at the concept for a year and a half and then ignore the event.

 

[Canuckistani]

You are wrong. So far this season in the NHL there have been:

Sweden.........30 skaters/9 goalies
Czech............30 skaters/4 goalies
Finland...........24 skaters/9 goalies
Russia............25 skaters/6 goalies
And easily enough Swiss/Slovak/Dutch/French/Slovenia/Latvia etc to make a Euro team

The reason why they have chosen this format is so that they can AND WILL use 100% NHL players.

If you want to crap on this tournament, or me, go ahead. Just do a bit of research first.

My mistake, there are enough. If they don't mind fielding sub-par teams.

Sure, I suppose Finland have enough players....if they're OK with having only five defencemen. Maybe they can move a forward (some of whom have less than a half dozen GP) to D. Why not? They won't mind losing half their forwards and half their D-men from Sochi.

And I guess Russia could do without Kovalchuk, Radulov and Tikhonov (their lead scorer from the 2014 WHC).

It's a stupid idea, there's no way around it.

 

[Erikfromfin]

We Finns have only 5 defensman that have played in NHL this season

Olli Määttä - Sami Vatanen
Jyrki Jokipakka - Rasmus Ristolainen
Petteri Lindbohm

another 4 in AHL
Ville Pokka
Jani Hakanpää
Rasmus Rissanen
Julius Honka

+ Kimmo Timonen whos contracted with Flyers but has retired from national team and suffering from Bloodclots in his lung and legs

If we had to make team from those its very thin. We might get maybe one more guy to AHL/NHL circles by 2016 in Esa Lindell but thats pretty much it.
Some of the top Euro/KHL defensman we would loose are Sami Lepistö, Lasse Kukkonen, Ossi Väänänen, Juuso Hietanen, Anssi Salmela, (Esa Lindell) and many more. Finlands defence looses serious depth and basicly cant loose anyone to injuries otherwise its considerably weakened.

 

[Gaps]

The only way I would swallow this travesty of a tournament would be if the NHL agreed to send the players to the Olympics as well. But if this is the replacement for the Olympics, I will not watch a single game. The NHL will then have killed high level international hockey and I hope the tournament fails to bring in the cash they're looking for.

I hope the Euro players invited to play for Team Leftovers come up with an injury and decline. What a disgrace, but just shows how the NA hockey powers that be really view us Europeans. Apparently we can all be clumped together as one nation. Insulting. These people have no idea what international hockey is all about. I don't care if the Euro Leftovers team looks good on paper, because when push comes to shove, they have nothing in common to play for. Absolutely nothing.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

Fine then. How about we have team Canada's 1-8 and call it the Canada Cup.

This event is being put on and organized by the IIHF, NHL, and NHLPA. With the profits split between the IIHF and the NHLPA. I'm not saying you have to like it. But it will be all NHL players. Guaranteed.

 

[ebis]

You are wrong. So far this season in the NHL there have been:

Sweden.........30 skaters/9 goalies
Czech............30 skaters/4 goalies
Finland...........24 skaters/9 goalies
Russia............25 skaters/6 goalies
And easily enough Swiss/Slovak/Dutch/French/Slovenia/Latvia etc to make a Euro team

The reason why they have chosen this format is so that they can AND WILL use 100% NHL players.

If you want to crap on this tournament, or me, go ahead. Just do a bit of research first.

How? It could never be purely NHL, simply not enough players, even for a number of the "Chosen 6" teams. And the "Leftover all-star"? There are 36 "leftover" NHL+AHL players, 12 of those are Slovaks (none of which will probably participate, for obvious reasons + their recent interviews confirm it), 10 of those are Swiss (who feel just as insulted as the Slovaks)... 14 "Leftover" players left (if all of them are healthy and willing to play for this joke of a team).

So right now it seems like half of the "Euro All-Star" team will be composed of players from European leagues. Latvian, German, Austrian etc. players from euro leagues since the Swiss and Slovaks will not participate, not even the euro ones.

How is this the "best-on-best"? It is a joke. NHL wanted to avoid using non-NHL players, wanted to avoid blowouts... Now there will have to be even more non-NHL players and even more blowouts since the Swiss and Slovak players will simply say "**** you and your silly tournament"

 

[Canuckistani]

Fine then. How about we have team Canada's 1-8 and call it the Canada Cup.

Or just play the World Cup the way it was played in 1996 and 2004: top eight teams, best players.

We're only having this conversation because the greedy NHL suits were high on meth when they designed this dog turd of an event.

 

[Swipes]

I wouldn't mind if they let the Slovaks play for the Czech team, we'd have a Czechoslovakian team like we did ages ago......mind you, it would still leave out the Swiss

Horrible idea overall though. I hope they just play with 6 teams and leave it at that.

 

[Canuckistani]

12 of those are Slovaks (none of which will probably participate, for obvious reasons + their recent interviews confirm it)

Good to hear.

No Slovak or Swiss player with any degree of self-respect would take part in this insulting garbage. And ultimately it is the players who have the best chance of sinking the NHL's crackpot idea. Can't have any mickey mouse teams if the players say no.

 

[Zine]

$$$ for the NHLPA might get players to participate, but why play hard? With the NHL season starting soon afterwards, is a superstar gonna put his body on the line and block a shot so Canada can defeat Team "U23"? Is a Hossa or Kopitar gonna go all out for the glorious "Team left over Europe"?
Yeah, good luck with that Bettman.

Ridiculousness

Edit: Good to hear many of the Slovaks might boycott this thing.

 

[FiLe]

That would be a very positive outcome. I highly doubt that the NHL would propose such a format though. They are obviously targetting North American viewers first and foremost, and North American viewers expect most eliminations to be done via a playoff system. A round robin followed by a final, with no other games in between, would be viewed as very strange and I can't see the NHL proposing it.

Really doubt it. Why would the other Euro players agree to join Team Leftovers simply for the purpose of an exhibition game?

Unfortunately, I think the rumours we've heard is what the tournament will be.

I admit, I'm taking some leaps in logic here, mostly based on my inborn willingness to disbelieve that a man could propose such lunacy in the first place... despite already being proven wrong times and again in the past.

The tournament format bit is of course anybody's guess. I simply see that as the most likely (given the total number of games and all) if there are to be only six teams.

And honestly, I can't see how they really would consider a possibility where a collection team could actually be crowned a champion of this... thing. It just wouldn't make much of a marketable narrative. So either they fix things heavily against them in the group stage, or be more honest about it and make 'em a sideshow. Also, somebody must have considered that these groups simply can't play with the same fire and motivation as if they were to represent a "proper" national team. And finally there's the whole issue of getting the concerned federations (not to mention the players themselves) to agree to it. I guess there's not a technical need for it, but bypassing that step could really creep up to them in the future in a number of ways. But eh, could be this is really just me trying to see sense in places where there really is none.

The thing I'm 100% positive about is however that this will NOT be limited to players based in NA only. No way certain feds will agree to that. Those that think they will or figure the NHL has strong-armed them to it by using olympic participation as bait are seriously out of touch with how hockey in Europe works (which is not really a rare thing around here, tbh).

I do remember from 2004 though that the NHL actually had a veto right they could exercise if they did not wish a particular player to participate. But it did not prevent teams from using players based in Europe, and we will see a handful of KHLers in the mix this time round as well. Especially if they really want to have Russia in this, that is a must.

 

[Theokritos]

I also expect that the NHL has attempted to tie participation with this tournament in with participation in the Olympics. That would be a silver lining I suppose.

Actually I can't think of any other reason the European federations and the IIHF would go along with the Centennial Joke right now.

 

[Uncle Leland]

You are wrong. So far this season in the NHL there have been:

Sweden.........30 skaters/9 goalies
Czech............30 skaters/4 goalies
Finland...........24 skaters/9 goalies
Russia............25 skaters/6 goalies
And easily enough Swiss/Slovak/Dutch/French/Slovenia/Latvia etc to make a Euro team
.

Additional players for team Finland if necessary.

Jake Virtanen
Matt Niskanen
Magnus Pääjärvi
Mika Simpaneva

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Organizations that understand World sport
Football World Cup/32 countries
Rugby World Cup/20 countries
Cricket World Cup/ 14 countries
Field Hockey World Cup/12 countries
Baseball World Cup/16 countries
Basketball World Cup/24 countries

Organizations that don't understand World sport
nhl world cup/6 countries.

 

[icing]

Additional players for team Finland if necessary.

Jake Virtanen
Matt Niskanen
Magnus Pääjärvi
Mika Simpaneva

Yeah, and Tavares could play for Euro-Allstar.

 

[JackSlater]

Actually I can't think of any other reason the European federations and the IIHF would go along with the Centennial Joke right now.

I can understand the IIHF going along with it as they stifle their laughter. It makes them, and their tournaments, look better comparatively. I agree on the federations... there must be some incentive, and I doubt the NHL is going to guarantee them some cut of the profits significant enough to get compliance.

 

[Jonimaus]

They can, but the NHL could turn around and declare KHL players ineligible, as well. Like I said earlier, they will likely make a rule of the tournament that only NHL/AHL players are eligible. Guess, they could add players of all the other NA leagues, as well (ECHL, CHL, USHL, etc). I doubt they could prevent them from using the name, "Russia" or "Team Russia".

I think by the time this actually happens, it will have been re-branded as the "NHL INTERNATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS" or something along those lines, instead of World Cup. No idea who actually owns the rights, trademark, (whatever you call it in this case) to "World Cup of Hockey".

Not allowing KHL players would hurt this world cup than it would help anything. Most teams can not make their best possible team with only NHL players. But then again, kids team etc etc. Man I don't know anymore.

 

[Canuckistani]

I can understand the IIHF going along with it as they stifle their laughter. It makes them, and their tournaments, look better comparatively.

As crummy as the rosters often are at the WHC, at least those present are representing national teams.