Tear it down or keep the old gal rolling?

[YippieKaey]

I would, but what kind of return would we get? Maybe a 5th round pick?

Hmm. I think maybe like a 3rd or so at least. He's still useful for a playoff team that needs a veteran shutdown C no?

 

[Kuz]

I would, but what kind of return would we get? Maybe a 5th round pick?

At 50% he probably have value. Look at teams like Colorado and Toronto.

Colorado have Rodriquez 2nd C Compher 3rd C and Maltsev 4th C. Eller is at least good enought for 3rd C there. Colorado is also lacking depth among forwards.

Toronto have Engvall 3rd C Kampf 4th C that Eller is better than.

 

[Devil Dancer]

I know we set the clocks back an hour today, but I didn't realize we also set the calendar to a week before the TDL. This conversation today is a little silly, seems like a big pile of "I told you so" or something.

It will be a much more interesting topic when we see where they are in the standings, how healthy they are, as the TDL approaches. For now, meh, they'll be OK.

I think that's why we're having this conversation now - for the first time in many years, I don't think they will be OK, even if they ever get healthy.

The depleted version is losing in regatuon to Detroit and Arizona.

Oshie looks like he's done. Probably Backstrom too. Brown is out for most or all of the season. So, there isn't much help on the horizon. Wilson and Carlson will move the needle a bit, but not to contender status.

Factor in that half the team is UFA this summer, and it's time to start having the conversation.

Otherwise what are they doing? Competing for, at best, 8th in the East and another first round exit?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I have been optimistic over the years and was especially eager for this year with actual NHL goaltending, however I feel it's time to rebuild while helping Ovy get his record. Why? I don't feel some players have what it takes to be a SC winner. Mike Keenan once said that Curtis Joseph will never be a Stanley Cup winning goalie and he was right. I feel that way about players like Mantha. While he is skilled and has size, he does not display the competitive drive to be a winner. Before folks chime in and say, "We're severely depleted by injuries", I want to say winners get over those humps and our goalies should be able overcome those stints. Our goalies can't steal games when players quit in the last few minutes of games. Year after year this team depends on Ovy doing all the work and ride his coattails with exception to a few players on the team. Playing lazy and giving up on plays late in the game and squandering precious points to fringe teams isn't a recipe for success and ruined Ovy's record celebration last night. If and when the organization does rebuild I hope they do so from the very top down. No more Dick Patrick, no keeping the GM, or keeping the coaching staff. Do a total do over with an innovative, modern, and younger GM/Coach. While I respect the old dinosaurs and grew up with them, it's time to quit thinking it's the same NHL because it isn't. I can't say I believe a rebuild will be like Buffalo's lengthy rebuild mainly because we have some nice prospects like Miro, Lapiere, and Iorio coming. I do believe they should keep the scouting staff. I guess what I'm saying is either play as a winner or get the hell out via trade or retire. I'm for winning always, but I just don't see this happening this year. Of course the organization will cry injuries over the fact this team has needed motivated players in a retool. Also, I don't put my faith in tanking because there isn't no guarantee now and only encourages lazy players to be even more lazy. Sure it's way too early in the season, but at some point reality settles in. We have a lot of coasting players on this team who don't play up to their contract. I'll take a team of Hathaways over guys like Mantha anyday. Additionally, playing perimeter hockey and not driving to the net and dirty areas will never equate to winning ever. Hell, Alan May sound like he is on replay every night post game and during intermissions pointing this stuff out, but yet they continue the perimeter play.

Dick Patrick is part of the ownership group. On him, they’ll carry him out of here on his shield, not before.

So then we’re back to GMBM on down If you want to force feed a massive overhaul.

lastly, you say “winners get over those humps”……..well let’s let them have a chance then.


I think GMBM is assessing whether or not the troops already in the organization can weather this, or if he needs to make an external move or 2.

 

[tycoonheart]

I don't feel some players have what it takes to be a SC winner. Mike Keenan once said that Curtis Joseph will never be a Stanley Cup winning goalie and he was right. I feel that way about players like Mantha. While he is skilled and has size, he does not display the competitive drive to be a winner. Before folks chime in and say, "We're severely depleted by injuries"

I agree with this, but a good coach can make a difference here. Look at what Kuzy is now versus how he was under Trotz the year we won the cup. Trotz had the ability to say the right things to motivate the players. Being the head coach isn't just about Xs and Os, you need to able to say the right things to your players to get them going.

 

[g00n]

I agree with this, but a good coach can make a difference here. Look at what Kuzy is now versus how he was under Trotz the year we won the cup. Trotz had the ability to say the right things to motivate the players. Being the head coach isn't just about Xs and Os, you need to able to say the right things to your players to get them going.

Trotz had such a hard time dealing with these guys he had to consult other HC's around the league during INTL competitions, asking them how to keep the team motivated.

In BT's final year it wasn't until Jan or Feb that the team started rallying around BT, and if we're being honest it seems like a lot of the motivation came from two sources: 1) Ovechkin's "we're not going to be f***ing suck this year" leadership; and 2) the likely perception that they were playing to save BT's job.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

They literally tanked their asses off to get Ovechkin.

And you know what it took for that.....An Easter playoff elimination with fans not even caring to attend. When the fans start treating this team like that, then maybe Ted tanks again.

 

[EroCaps]

Crash and Burn for Bedard.

 

[Silky mitts]

You can't tear it down if you're not willing to go full tank for 1.5 years or more, otherwise you're not going to pick up enough assets to make a difference. Voted retool on the fly.

 

[Langway]

They won't tear it down that's for sure. I'm not sure they'd even sell secondary pieces like Sheary/Eller/Hathaway at the deadline if they're remotely close to being a bubble team. Do they covet picks enough to wave the flag? I really doubt it. More likely are swaps to shake things up and still hope to remain minimally viable. And that likely remains S.O.P. until the Ovechkin Era is over. 'Til then there will be a main attraction and at least token attempts to compete.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Hmm. I think maybe like a 3rd or so at least. He's still useful for a playoff team that needs a veteran shutdown C no?

Potentially yes. So the course of action is to sell him at best price at the TDL if we’re not in the playoff picture, otherwise hold on to him until the end.

 

[Neil Racki]

Backstrom 9.2 million next few years
Oshie 5.75M next few years
Carlson 8 million next few years

It is what it is. We knew the bill would come due and the next few years we will be paying it off.

 

[trick9]

I would, but what kind of return would we get? Maybe a 5th round pick?

I think Eller is actually pretty valuable around the league. Most teams still consider him as an ideal 3rd line center who can face tougher competition. So basically what he was before his decline. His offensive numbers haven't really declined.

I wouldn’t be shocked if someone was willing to give late 1st rounder for him if we retained salary. Or 2nd round pick + another conditional pick.

 

[msrulo]

I went with the unpopular choice. Half our roster is injured, although we could win more games if they heal. With Backstrom, Oshie, Orlov, and Wilson back in the lineup, many would agree that is a much better team.

It could be too late by then for our season, and players could get reinjured. It's a difficult decision to make. I'd be happy if we at least made the playoffs this year and be a Stanley cup competitor, though that could be a far shot.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think Eller is actually pretty valuable around the league. Most teams still consider him as an ideal 3rd line center who can face tougher competition. So basically what he was before his decline. His offensive numbers haven't really declined.

I wouldn’t be shocked if someone was willing to give late 1st rounder for him if we retained salary. Or 2nd round pick + another conditional pick.

Lol come on…..says who?

If we think he sucks, we think others are what….not watching his video?! A late 1st?! No way…even a second + sounds laughable with the low opinions here.

 

[trick9]

Lol come on…..says who?

If we think he sucks, we think others are what….not watching his video?! A late 1st?! No way…even a second + sounds laughable with the low opinions here.

Media.

Do you think he sucks? I don't. Habs fans thought he sucked when he was traded, worked out pretty well for us. He is a perplexing player though because he seems to have all the tools to be a much better player than he actually is but the toolbox isn't good enough. He's still a big and strong match-up center that NHL GM's adore and has a Cup ring to show for it.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Media.

Do you think he sucks? I don't. Habs fans thought he sucked when he was traded, worked out pretty well for us. He is a perplexing player though because he seems to have all the tools to be a much better player than he actually is but the toolbox isn't good enough. He's still a big and strong match-up center that NHL GM's adore and has a Cup ring to show for it.

Definitely do not think he sucks, but I wouldn’t trade more than a 3rd for him, maaaaaybe a lower 2nd at best if he was really in form in March. If we hold him until the deadline, maybe they get lucky in that return.

 

[DWGie26]

Fun to play GM. But right now, the coach, players, and GM should be thinking about how to win tonight. Then we can think about Wednesday. Then Friday. Then Saturday. One game at a time and put in whomever you think has best chance of getting 2 points.

 

[trick9]

Definitely do not think he sucks, but I wouldn’t trade more than a 3rd for him, maaaaaybe a lower 2nd at best if he was really in form in March. If we hold him until the deadline, maybe they get lucky in that return.

It really depends on the market what you'd trade for him. If there aren't other good 3C's available and you don't trust who you currently have what are you going to do? As a contender it's risky to go into the Playoffs with a shaky 3C, especially if he has to be sheltered. That could be the difference between losing in the 2nd round and winning the Cup. Eller came up huge for us during our run and even played up when Backstrom was hurt.

Lucky return would be that late 1st round pick. Obviously that isn't very likely and would likely demand that there aren't many other options available but multiple teams that are in need of a 3C and have limited cap space. Paul Gaustad and Antoine Vermette both brought back 1st round picks. I don't think i'd trade him for less than a 2nd round pick. That should be the absolute minimum, otherwise we should just keep him and let him walk later on. Even 2nd round pick has very little value, especially to a team like us who haven't hit on 2nd round picks for over a decade. Even less so with 3rd round picks.

 

[Kuz]

Even 2nd round pick has very little value, especially to a team like us who haven't hit on 2nd round picks for over a decade. Even less so with 3rd round picks.

Often Caps have hit decently, but the 2nd have often been traded away for upgrades to the rooster.

siegenthaler, Zanford, Leason, Vanecek, Bowey, Fehervary, Clark, Iorio and Chesley are our 2nd round picks.

Siegenthaler and Fehervary are solid defencemen and good value. Zanford have made a decent NHL career and Leason have the chance to do the same. Vanecek a quite good backup goalie. Bowey had potential got some NHL games, but not what Caps hoped for. Clark looks like a miss while Iorio and Chesley both look promising.

I would say its quite good considering most of Caps 2nd rounders are in the later part of the second round. Biggest minus here is letting Siegenthaler go.

 

[trick9]

Often Caps have hit decently, but the 2nd have often been traded away for upgrades to the rooster.

siegenthaler, Zanford, Leason, Vanecek, Bowey, Fehervary, Clark, Iorio and Chesley are our 2nd round picks.

Siegenthaler and Fehervary are solid defencemen and good value. Zanford have made a decent NHL career and Leason have the chance to do the same. Vanecek a quite good backup goalie. Bowey had potential got some NHL games, but not what Caps hoped for. Clark looks like a miss while Iorio and Chesley both look promising.

I would say its quite good considering most of Caps 2nd rounders are in the later part of the second round. Biggest minus here is letting Siegenthaler go.

How are those good picks for Washington? I'd get your argument if we had a new management but we still have the same we've had since all those picks were made.

Siegenthaler was dumped for a 3rd round pick and is thriving elsewhere.

Sanford was a throw-in prospect in the Shattenkirk -trade.

Leason was lost for nothing.

Vitek Vanecek was a success. They got some decent goaltending in a bad situation out of him and managed to save 2nd round pick when Kraken picked him instead of Dillon. He was then traded to Devils to move up 9 spots in the 2nd round + 3rd rounder.

Madison Bowey was a contract throw-in in that Jensen -trade.

Fehervary has been a good pick so far.

Clark looks like a bust.

Too early to judge Iorio and Chesley.

 

[Kuz]

How are those good picks for Washington? I'd get your argument if we had a new management but we still have the same we've had since all those picks were made.

Siegenthaler was dumped for a 3rd round pick and is thriving elsewhere.

Sanford was a throw-in prospect in the Shattenkirk -trade.

Leason was lost for nothing.

Vitek Vanecek was a success. They got some decent goaltending in a bad situation out of him and managed to save 2nd round pick when Kraken picked him instead of Dillon. He was then traded to Devils to move up 9 spots in the 2nd round + 3rd rounder.

Madison Bowey was a contract throw-in in that Jensen -trade.

Fehervary has been a good pick so far.

Clark looks like a bust.

Too early to judge Iorio and Chesley.

Not sure what you expect for a team drafting in the 50s in the second round. Look at Tampa and Pens there isnt exactly top end talent drafted in the second since 2013.

Caps have hit NHL players at a quite good rate compared to expected from where in the second round they are picking. Then you can look on what they have done with them later on. Siegenthaler would have been a hige upgrade for the correct defence.

 

[trick9]

Not sure what you expect for a team drafting in the 50s in the second round. Look at Tampa and Pens there isnt exactly top end talent drafted in the second since 2013.

Caps have hit NHL players at a quite good rate compared to expected from where in the second round they are picking. Then you can look on what they have done with them later on. Siegenthaler would have been a hige upgrade for the correct defence.

I'm not sure what you are arguing, that's basically the point i was making. 2nd round pick alone has very little value.

You have to look at the big picture to see what kind of value a 2nd round pick has for us, with this management. It's great if you keep picking out stars in the 2nd round but if you trade them before they get to reap the benefits then it doesn't really add any value to our picks. It just means that other teams should be constantly watching who we throw into the waivers because they (more) often become bonafide NHL'ers.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

2nd round picks do not have “very little value”……those should be serviceable NHLers most of the time. Just because we don’t have a ton of success, doesn’t mean you should mentally devalue a 2nd automatically.

 

[trick9]

2nd round picks do not have “very little value”……those should be serviceable NHLers most of the time. Just because we don’t have a ton of success, doesn’t mean you should mentally devalue a 2nd automatically.

I meant they have very little value to us because of the bigger picture, which is poor asset management after you make the pick.

Even in general they don't become "serviceable NHL'ers most of the time". There was a research done recently which put odds of 2nd round pick playing 100 NHL games at ~17%. That's 83% chance of basically being a bust and in that 17% are lots of players like Leason where the team that drafted the player had him for less than 100 games before losing him to waivers for nothing. Also that included the entire 2nd round. Odds are even smaller mid-to-late 2nd round.