Tear it down or keep the old gal rolling?

[YippieKaey]

Just curious about the general vibe around the fanbase now that the horrible start has come and the injury bug very predictably has decimated the entire Cup core sans Ovi & Kuzy.

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[SecretaryofDefense5]

I think it’s too early to say.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Get it over with. This team is trash. Ovi can still get the record in a rebuild.

 

[YippieKaey]

I think it’s too early to say.

Good point, added that option

 

[trick9]

Rebuild with the focus on offense.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

They’re down four top six forwards, two bottom six forwards, and their best two defensemen. Not looking great at the moment.

They should play out the string for a bit and see what happens. They’ve had terrible luck the last two games which should have been comfortable wins. If they’re out of it by February then sell some guys before the deadline and look to retool next summer when they should have a ton of cap space.

 

[Misery74]

Is fire the coach an option? Because that is what they should do.

 

[twabby]

How many fewer goals would Ovechkin score if he played on this year’s version of the Coyotes as opposed to the Capitals? I think at least 10 fewer goals, maybe more.

That’s why I can’t get behind a full rebuild. Him reaching 895 is important to me and others so I think they need to retool to the best of their ability with some targeted hockey trades rather than selling for futures. It’s not ideal in terms of winning Cups, but it’d make them the most competitive they could possibly be in the next 2-4 years. That’s what I want to see.

 

[Devil Dancer]

How many fewer goals would Ovechkin score if he played on this year’s version of the Coyotes as opposed to the Capitals? I think at least 10 fewer goals, maybe more.

That’s why I can’t get behind a full rebuild. Him reaching 895 is important to me and others so I think they need to retool to the best of their ability with some targeted hockey trades rather than selling for futures. It’s not ideal in terms of winning Cups, but it’d make them the most competitive they could possibly be in the next 2-4 years. That’s what I want to see.

I think they can do both at the same time. Just hold on to a couple of decent playmaking centers (Kuzy is a good start most of the time) and PMDs.

 

[Brian23]

I don't think you blow it up completely, but I'm sure the FO has a few people they know aren't coming back next year. Start unloading those players, recoup picks and prospects and try to go hard next year.

Of the big names on the books next year, I think Mantha needs moving. Not sure you'll get a great return for him, certainly nothing to the level of Vrana prospect and a first, but he's just not it in my mind. I think you toy with moving Kuznetsov, though that'll be a glaring hole especially with Backstom a toss up to return. I think you really need to think about LTIRetiring Oshie to Arizona, I love the guy and I'm one who thinks his cap hit is fine when he can play but the man just cannot stay healthy. There's probably a discussion on Carlson, but honestly I just don't see you replacing him (even with his defensive woes) for his cap hit. Unless you truly believe he's just falling off the face of the earth, you gotta keep him in my opinion.

As for who's a UFA/RFA next year? I think you look to trade Sheary, Strome, Mojo, and maybe Jensen. I put a priority on resigning Orlov, but if you don't expect to bring him back next year look to unload him as well.

Then this team will just absolutely suck this year. Play a bunch of young guys, maybe whatever you get back in trade. But I honestly think, as long as they can find a good center next year, maybe Horvat or lucky into Larkin, they can build a team that can contend for the playoffs again next year.

The real trouble will be, if none of those young guys show any promise this year they've probably started their National's level rebuild early and Ted and Co will never do that.

 

[895]

Rebuild while keeping a great pp1 unit and hire an offensive minded coach. Lose every game 6-3 and I won't care as long as Ovechkin gets goals.

 

[twabby]

I think they can do both at the same time. Just hold on to a couple of decent playmaking centers (Kuzy is a good start most of the time) and PMDs.

A full rebuild to me implies no contention for at least 3 or 4 years while they accumulate futures and then have time to draft and develop them. Think the 2003-04 selloff and then taking until 2008 until they reached the playoffs, and 2009 to really start contending.

If they are truly rebuilding I think by definition that means trading every big name except for Ovechkin. Carlson, Kuznetsov, Oshie, Wilson, Orlov, Jensen would all be gone. I think some of them would be gone in a retool but not all, and those would be hockey trades rather than trades for futures.

I think a full rebuild also implies a new GM is in place as well. @Langway has laid it out better than I ever could, but I don’t have confidence MacLellan is the guy to undertake a rebuild. The development and drafting just hasn’t been there under his tenure.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

How many fewer goals would Ovechkin score if he played on this year’s version of the Coyotes as opposed to the Capitals? I think at least 10 fewer goals, maybe more.

That’s why I can’t get behind a full rebuild. Him reaching 895 is important to me and others so I think they need to retool to the best of their ability with some targeted hockey trades rather than selling for futures. It’s not ideal in terms of winning Cups, but it’d make them the most competitive they could possibly be in the next 2-4 years. That’s what I want to see.

This is where I’m at.

 

[DWGie26]

I had season tickets from 2001-2004 when we sold off Bondra, Kolzig, and others to rebuild. It was painful, long, and slow. Don’t want to go there with OV in the lineup and chasing a record. Secondly, I don’t want anyone of the team giving up and they are pros so they won’t.

Lastly, the trade deadline is a long ways off so no need to trade players yet. If we are out of contention at that point, then I would be in favor of trading some UFA’s at deadline. There is a lot of parity in the NHL right now, so prices will be high and sellers will get good capital.

right now we need to fight through adversity and try different tweaks.

 

[StrikingDistance]

Well, most of us on here have been clamoring for more 'youth' in the line-up. It's time for some players not named Ovi to step up and contribute offensively. Kuzy and Mantha have been more visible the past 2 games, but not enough. Hell, no one else has been impressive and made me think 'yeah, give him more minutes'.

 

[DWGie26]

I want youth as well. Was hoping Snively would separate a bit this year. Protas has been solid but he is first year NHLer so he will likely be inconsistent. I’ll still take it. Beck was starting to look good before injury. NAK and Milano bring youth (in upgrades from Leason and AJF). McMichael has been looking better so maybe he stays in as NAK comes in and Protas watches a couple of games. I’d really like to see Johansen play a couple of games.

 

[g00n]

PANIC!

It hasn't even been 2 weeks since we trounced the Metro-leading NJ Devils. Since then we pissed away at least 3-4 points with late collapses, including vs the Canes who are 2nd in the Metro. If we'd held on in three of the last 4 games we'd be 3rd in the division with 15 or 16 pts:

We're missing a shitload of key players. Talk about firing the coach and gm and rebuilding right now is just embarrassing.

 

[traparatus]

If the team won more games, they would have more points. You heard it here first, folks.

 

[twabby]

PANIC!

It hasn't even been 2 weeks since we trounced the Metro-leading NJ Devils. Since then we pissed away at least 3-4 points with late collapses, including vs the Canes who are 2nd in the Metro. If we'd held on in three of the last 4 games we'd be 3rd in the division with 15 or 16 pts:

View attachment 604239

We're missing a shitload of key players. Talk about firing the coach and gm and rebuilding right now is just embarrassing.

This is a culmination of years of offensive deterioration, not a cold spell due to some poor injury luck. The signs were there well before the season started. The signs were there early this season before the injuries started piling up. The signs were there last year.

I don’t know where I stand with the coach or GM at this point but it’s certainly not “embarrassing” to be discussing their futures and whether or not a rebuild is in order.

 

[g00n]

If the team won more games, they would have more points. You heard it here first, folks.

Not what was said.

If they weren't so beat to shit and hadn't let up late in just a few games we'd be talking about them being near the top of the division instead of wringing hands about an impending firesale after one month. The point that you missed was it's too early and the margin too slim to make huge changes, if the difference between 2nd in the division and firesale is just a shootout and a few late goals in 3 games.

Do you guys have anything beyond "they're old and slow and I want exciting flashy young players at any cost because shiny new toys are cool"?

 

[trick9]

A full rebuild to me implies no contention for at least 3 or 4 years while they accumulate futures and then have time to draft and develop them. Think the 2003-04 selloff and then taking until 2008 until they reached the playoffs, and 2009 to really start contending.

If they are truly rebuilding I think by definition that means trading every big name except for Ovechkin. Carlson, Kuznetsov, Oshie, Wilson, Orlov, Jensen would all be gone. I think some of them would be gone in a retool but not all, and those would be hockey trades rather than trades for futures.

I think a full rebuild also implies a new GM is in place as well. @Langway has laid it out better than I ever could, but I don’t have confidence MacLellan is the guy to undertake a rebuild. The development and drafting just hasn’t been there under his tenure.

Yeah... i voted for a rebuild but not implying that we should sell every player who can play hockey.

Either way it's a long process and everything doesn't just go down during the season. I don't think either Carlson or Oshie would be traded before summer because they have term left and salary that's tough to fit. My idea of rebuild for now is figuring out which UFA's you want to keep long-term and who you don't should be traded. For example Orlov i would like to keep as he's our best overall D. Jensen i would assume has good value around the league and wants his last contract to be big so it's a tough contract to swallow for a 33 year old who relies on his skating. I would also like to keep some offensive pieces around for 895 but guys like Eller and MoJo could be moved for picks. Also figure out what to do with Mantha. Sheary is a nice asset to have because he can play in any line but depends again on the term. Kuznetsov likely doesn't bring back much so i'd keep him to play with 8. Strome likely the same? Wilson i would keep too as the likely future captain and fan favourite.

 

[zappa4ever]

Boatload of injuries, 2 last gms were heartbreakers missing out on likely 4 pts, and we're basically right with the pack despite it all

NJ/PHI likely to come down some

If we go 6-4 next 10 we'll be right there competing and close to getting multiple players back including big Willy

so... Too Soon.

 

[DWGie26]

We're missing a shitload of key players. Talk about firing the coach and gm and rebuilding right now is just embarrassing.

This! i don’t know why there is so much hate for Lavi and GMBM.

The system is good and we have been in every game. GMBM put together a deep roster for preseason and created an competitive environment. Sure that led to two players who couldn’t make it that got claimed. but then he arguably upgraded by getting Milano and NAK (both 26) for free. The org is giving younsters a chance to play And earn a spot. Some have responded and some haven’t. He significantly upgraded the goaltending.

 

[Devil Dancer]

A full rebuild to me implies no contention for at least 3 or 4 years while they accumulate futures and then have time to draft and develop them. Think the 2003-04 selloff and then taking until 2008 until they reached the playoffs, and 2009 to really start contending.

If they are truly rebuilding I think by definition that means trading every big name except for Ovechkin. Carlson, Kuznetsov, Oshie, Wilson, Orlov, Jensen would all be gone. I think some of them would be gone in a retool but not all, and those would be hockey trades rather than trades for futures.

I think a full rebuild also implies a new GM is in place as well. @Langway has laid it out better than I ever could, but I don’t have confidence MacLellan is the guy to undertake a rebuild. The development and drafting just hasn’t been there under his tenure.

But there's no one path for a rebuild. Whatever comes next it won't be the same as 04-08. So why can't the team proactively shape a rebuild themselves?

Like @895 said, keep a strong PP1 and sell off everything else. If they think they can get great futures for Kuzy, for example, target a Ribeiro-type for cheap to feed Ovie.

Arizona came into last night's game with the 3rd ranked PP. A strong PP isn't mutually exclusive with rebuilding.

 

[Brian23]

Why is it that making the best team possible, or having long term success, and getting Ovi to 895 are mutually exclusive?

I'd argue just "staying the course" and trying to ride out with the team we have as now has more chance of stopping Ovi from getting the goal record then selling this year to go again next year.