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U18: Team USA 2023 U18 Championship

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They didn't look like a Gold medal team but it is nothing new in the first game of the tournament. I hope that this is not going to be another badly coached U18 team. It has been a major reason why many of our top age groups have failed in the past.
 
I'm torn on this tournament.

While I like to see the team do well and win, part of me likes that we've been choking here lately because it might force USAH to consider changes to the NTDP and the way USAH approaches the U17 + U18 tournaments. USAH / NTDP uses this tournament and their results in it to justify their long-standing approach. The truth is we should consistently do better than everyone else in this tournament. We don't take our A team (in terms of taking the best players possible) to either of the U18 tournaments, including this one, but bringing a team that has mostly played together for 2 seasons is a huge advantage. And because of that, USAH / NTDP overrates our results here, and that breeds complacency in the program or a myopic desire to recover the results in the tournament, which misses the forest for the trees. Either are huge issues.

I'm not sure what the changes are that I'd want to see. I'm probably of the mindset that the NTDP has run its course and probably isn't worth the exorbitant resources it receives. But if it does stick around, it needs to be revamped.
 
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William H Bonney said:
I'm torn on this tournament.

While I like to see the team do well and win, part of me likes that we've been choking here lately because it might force USAH to consider changes to the NTDP and the way USAH approaches the U17 + U18 tournaments. USAH / NTDP uses this tournament and their results in it to justify their long-standing approach. The truth is we should consistently do better than everyone else in this tournament. We don't take our A team (in terms of taking the best players possible) to either of the U18 tournaments, including this one, but bringing a team that has mostly played together for 2 seasons is a huge advantage. And because of that, USAH / NTDP overrate our results here, and that breeds complacency in the program or a myopic desire to recover the results in the tournament, which misses the forest for the trees. Either are huge issues.

I'm not sure what the changes are that I'd want to see. I'm probably of the mindset that the NTDP has run its course and probably isn't with the exorbitant resources. But if it does stick around, it needs to be revamped.
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I would love if the Czechs could come up with a similar program to be honest. I think Belarus did that and they were getting good U18 results at this tourney. Might benefit our Tier 2 Czechs who don't go to NA when they are 17.
 
William H Bonney said:
I'm torn on this tournament.

While I like to see the team do well and win, part of me likes that we've been choking here lately because it might force USAH to consider changes to the NTDP and the way USAH approaches the U17 + U18 tournaments. USAH / NTDP uses this tournament and their results in it to justify their long-standing approach. The truth is we should consistently do better than everyone else in this tournament. We don't take our A team (in terms of taking the best players possible) to either of the U18 tournaments, including this one, but bringing a team that has mostly played together for 2 seasons is a huge advantage. And because of that, USAH / NTDP overrates our results here, and that breeds complacency in the program or a myopic desire to recover the results in the tournament, which misses the forest for the trees. Either are huge issues.

I'm not sure what the changes are that I'd want to see. I'm probably of the mindset that the NTDP has run its course and probably isn't worth the exorbitant resources it receives. But if it does stick around, it needs to be revamped.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have my misgivings about the program as well. It seems like it's main purpose is to lock in duals. LOL..
 
Czechboy said:
I would love if the Czechs could come up with a similar program to be honest. I think Belarus did that and they were getting good U18 results at this tourney. Might benefit our Tier 2 Czechs who don't go to NA when they are 17.
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In places like Slovakia who have mimicked the NTDP, I think the primary benefit is getting more players to stay in their home country and help boost their own development leagues. I imagine it'd be similar for Czechs.

IMO something similar has been the primary benefit for the NTDP, too. Over time, it's probably convinced a fair number of players to leave their local but lower-level leagues for better competition. Without the NTDP, more of those players probably would have stayed in the Northeast Prep Schools, Minnesota Highschool Hockey, etc. You could argue either way on which is better for USAH overall but hockey in America has historically been regionally fragmented and the NTDP has helped bring those players together for higher competition. A lot of that regionally loyal has dissipated over the NTDP's existence though (beyond MN highschool hockey), so most of those guys would probably now leave their local leagues for the USHL or CHL in this day and age.
 
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William H Bonney said:
In places like Slovakia who have mimicked the NTDP, I think the primary benefit is getting more players to stay in their home country and help boost their own development leagues. I imagine it'd be similar for Czechs.

IMO something similar has been the primary benefit for the NTDP, too. Over time, it's probably convinced a fair number of players to leave their local but lower-level leagues for better competition. Without the NTDP, more of those players probably would have stayed in the Northeast Prep Schools, Minnesota Highschool Hockey, etc. You could argue either way on which is better for USAH overall but hockey in America has historically been regionally fragmented and the NTDP has helped bring those players together for higher competition. A lot of that regionally loyal has dissipated over the NTDP's existence though (beyond MN highschool hockey), so most of those guys would probably now leave their local leagues for the USHL or CHL in this day and age.
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I would say the big loser where the USNTDP is concerned is the CHL. The program keeps the vast majority of the players stateside as it's a pipeline to the NCAA.
 
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Rabid Ranger said:
I would say the big loser where the USNTDP is concerned is the CHL. The program keeps the vast majority of the players stateside as it's a pipeline to the NCAA.
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Yeah, but IMO USAH shouldn't care about where the players go between the CHL and NCAA even though they do to your point.

The goal should be to build a player pool where USAH can send a lot of players (and elite ones, too) to both the CHL and NCAA. Like Hockey Canada. Both are excellent and valid paths with their own pros and cons. USAH's obsession with propping up NCAA hockey is both unnecessary and detrimental to the program.
 
William H Bonney said:
Yeah, but IMO USAH shouldn't care about where the players go between the CHL and NCAA even though they do to your point.

The goal should be to build a player pool where USAH can send a lot of players (and elite ones, too) to both the CHL and NCAA. Like Hockey Canada. Both are excellent and valid paths with their own pros and cons. USAH's obsession with propping up NCAA hockey is both unnecessary and detrimental to the program.
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I agree. The CHL should be a perfectly viable alternative.
 
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I disagree. USHL - > NCAA route should be the way to go for Americans. Goal should be that USHL is going to least be at the same level with OHL.
 
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William H Bonney said:
In places like Slovakia who have mimicked the NTDP, I think the primary benefit is getting more players to stay in their home country and help boost their own development leagues. I imagine it'd be similar for Czechs.
Click to expand...
It actually does the exact opposite. They take the best players from local junior teams, therefore they weaken them and the junior league (as the slovak project plays primarily in 2nd tier men league). Players who want to leave the country, will leave it it most cases. The aim of the project is to create the best possible development for the chosen players who will then prepare together for the U18 championship. But the best players of the birthyear, are still abroad
 
kudla said:
It actually does the exact opposite. They take the best players from local junior teams, therefore they weaken them and the junior league (as the slovak project plays primarily in 2nd tier men league). Players who want to leave the country, will leave it it most cases. The aim of the project is to create the best possible development for the chosen players who will then prepare together for the U18 championship. But the best players of the birthyear, are still abroad
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I'm not saying it achieves said goal. It's the exact same argument in the US. That centralizing so many top players on one team hurts the other USHL teams, other leagues (i.e., prep schools, Minnesota Highschool Hockey, etc.), and thus USAH more than it helps.
 
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Gabe Perreault is a new record man. 118 points in a single season.
 
Is Moore playing? How does someone with that speed not put up more than one point against a team you're beating 10-1.
 
Bonin21 said:
Is Moore playing? How does someone with that speed not put up more than one point against a team you're beating 10-1.
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He is playing.

He is not impressive in this tournament but it feels like he's kind of drawn the short end of the stick with how their top 9 is constructed. Perreault-Smith-Leonard are on fire with well known chemistry and the Hagens-Eiserman are killing it on the other line.
 
I'm a huge fan of the NTDP. They get these high end kids together and give them fantastic training, prepare them for the NCAA. What could be better? Live watching them. Love the process of selections. Love watching them progress. I see no downside at all and hope the program continues ad infinitum.
 
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Marc the Habs Fan said:
He is playing.

He is not impressive in this tournament but it feels like he's kind of drawn the short end of the stick with how their top 9 is constructed. Perreault-Smith-Leonard are on fire with well known chemistry and the Hagens-Eiserman are killing it on the other line.
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I think that Moore deserves a little criticism for not playing well with Hagens and Eiserman. He was given a pretty long look with them but in my viewings he never seemed to click with them. My biggest criticism of Moore is that he doesn’t seem to work well with players more skilled than himself. This is in stark contrast to how Smith, Leonard, and Perreault seem almost to read each others’ minds when creating offense and how Eiserman and Hagens play off each other to create space and scoring opportunities even though they don’t have particularly spectacular chemistry.

If you put Moore with Leonard and Perreault instead of Smith, I just don’t think they’d score even close to as much. To me, Moore is a player who likes to have the puck on his stick, but isn’t a high-end offensive facilitator and that detriments his linemates. He’ll be an NHLer in some capacity, I’m sure of it, but I’m not as high on him as some .
 
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clevelandcane said:
I'm a huge fan of the NTDP. They get these high end kids together and give them fantastic training, prepare them for the NCAA. What could be better? Live watching them. Love the process of selections. Love watching them progress. I see no downside at all and hope the program continues ad infinitum.
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Me too.

There's also amazing vibes in all behind the scenes videos I've seen. USA hockey has some amazing kind hearted kids. It's hard to describe it but it seems way better culture than Finnish or Canadian junior hockey culture, especially compared to the time when I was a player.

And they are crushing it. This team is ridiculously overpowered in this tournament.
 
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Is there a lot of impressive personal skill in this team? Obviously. Is this an impressive team? Not really. I think the offense will be enough to go through the quarterfinals, but defense and Augustine will be torn apart if they play like they did today.
 
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