Team toughness

[dumpin]

As I and several others have mentioned in prior threads, team toughness is a major team weakness. It looks like Gorton recognizes the problem and will seek a solution. In an article posted on SNY website ...


"While speaking on the radio last week, Jeff Gorton was asked about the Rangers lack of toughness and said that he agreed with the assessment and that it was something that would be addressed.
Gorton said that the Rangers want to be a team that plays hard and that their was a "void" of toughness in the last few months.
He added that as the season went on "it became more and more clear and it's something that will be addressed."
Elliotte Friedman said that he had been told that some of the biggest complains about Alain Vigneault were his "turn the other cheek" mentality. (31 Thoughts Podcast)
Friedman said that there is a belief that certain Ranger players were told not to "fight back" and that opposing teams took advantage of that. (31 Thoughts Podcast)"

Click to read more...

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Plenty of people get it, the issue is getting and giving minutes to guys like Glass and Mcleod to address it

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Plenty of people get it, the issue is getting and giving minutes to guys like Glass and Mcleod to address it

Exactly.

More toughness like Kreider (when he's on) provides? Hell yes.

Useless plugs with no puck skills who are willing to throw punches? Hell no.

 

[nyr2k2]

I always hate this discussion.

Having tough players is good. They have to be able to play, though. In the modern NHL there's not much room for guys that can scrap and do nothing else. Build me a team of guys like Milan Lucic circa 2010 and I'm good to go.

 

[haveandare]

Biggest thing will be getting a coach who isn't staunchly against playing tough. We don't have a lot of bruisers but I think we have a lot of guys who are capable of playing a lot tougher than they have been if they get the impression that it's not going to put them at risk of losing minutes in the near term.

 

[True Blue]

Useless plugs with no puck skills who are willing to throw punches? Hell no.

Is anyone actually behind bringing in players like this? In a perfect world, you have guys like Simmer who can play that game. Team toughness is also an aspect of an "eye for an eye". In the Nashville game, either gloves needed to be dropped. Or the opposing team's players be targeted. Or both.

 

[Off Sides]

How many tough players, who are also really talented are there in the NHL? Like players that can or should play on a 2nd line or 2nd pair?

And how many would be realistic adds for the Rangers? Where, how would they address this lack of toughness issue?

 

[Miamipuck]

Is anyone actually behind bringing in players like this? In a perfect world, you have guys like Simmer who can play that game. Team toughness is also an aspect of an "eye for an eye". In the Nashville game, either gloves needed to be dropped. Or the opposing team's players be targeted. Or both.

Uh you were here and witnessed actual posters clamoring for and defending the insertion of Glass into the lineup over Buch, Stempniak, Shepherd and other much better players. So the answer to your question is a resounding yes.

Quite frankly, I want to throw up in my mouth over that thought.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Rangers always can use toughness as long as the guys can play. AV really neutered this team. When McLIrath beat up Hertl a few years ago and was basically finished with the Rangers because of it. I didn't feel bad for Hertl at all.

No one did anything after Gudas took out Stalberg.

Unfortunately the rest of the league always thinks about the Dale Rolfe and Tomas Sandstrom incidents when it comes to the Rangers, so there is a need to stand up for themselves.

Any time in this team's history they get tough, they usually do pretty well.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Is anyone actually behind bringing in players like this? In a perfect world, you have guys like Simmer who can play that game. Team toughness is also an aspect of an "eye for an eye". In the Nashville game, either gloves needed to be dropped. Or the opposing team's players be targeted. Or both.

I dunno, TB, I think there are people who believe in the "eye for an eye" philosophy you mention who would still want them. A certain ex-poster who has spent the last few years desperately trying to prop himself up as a source of trade rumors would be a good example.

Personally, my preferred means of retribution does not involve ever dropping the gloves with premeditation.

If you're being played dirty, first and foremost, make 'em pay on the scoreboard. Then, also crunch them against the boards and clear them from in front of the crease. And, if in the course of doing those things, a fight naturally evolves, then by all means, kick the other dude's ass.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

A big north-south guy who can get 20 goals and hit people would be fine. Pat Maroon without the dumbass contract he's gonna get. I think that's what we want Vesey to turn into - we're probably keeping Vesey, Matt Beleskey will get a chance on the fourth line.

You want core players who push the envelope, but we have that - Kreider, Zuccarello, even Buchnevich fights sometimes. Keith Yandle was an offensive defenseman but he was lowkey a huge shit-starter while he was here, maybe that's DeAngelo if all the stars are aligned and everything goes right.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I think it's fairly unanimous that we would like a tougher team.

I'm not so sure that this year is a good indication of the bite that we have though. There were a lot of factors building over the last couple seasons (bad team, questions about leadership, passive coach, looming FAs and deadline deals, etc) that would all of contributed to a team that never carried themselves with pride.

And make no mistake; team toughness is grounded in team pride.

 

[McRanger]

Is anyone actually behind bringing in players like this? In a perfect world, you have guys like Simmer who can play that game. Team toughness is also an aspect of an "eye for an eye". In the Nashville game, either gloves needed to be dropped. Or the opposing team's players be targeted. Or both.

 

[dumpin]

By team toughness I am not advocating the Rangers loading up on goons. I want to see a team that is four lines deep with guys that play with grit and skill. I know that is easier said than done. We were softer than a baby arse this year and if by some luck we would have made it into the playoffs we would have been physically crushed. The way Winnipeg played Minnesota, one of our young Dmen would have gotten killed. The playoffs are always a different style of hockey that we need to prepare for, hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Team toughness and talent aren't mutually exclusive. Just look at the team Vegas assembled from NHL table scraps. That team can skate, competes for every puck, and finishes their checks. I think Kreider, Zucc, and Fast are the only players I saw going out of their way to finish their checks, and even then, it was infrequently. Some of that goes coaching, and some of it is your roster. Not having dead weight like McLeod, Cracknell, and Holland playing regular minutes would certainly help.

Again, look at the 4th lines of teams like Vegas and Winnipeg. They're full of guys who can skate, cycle the puck, and make the opposition pay for every inch of ice.

In comparison, our 4th line looked like:
(young player being punished) - (washed up vet) - (scrub goon that rarely hits or fights)

 

[nyr2k2]

It is kind of a curiosity that AV espoused this "turn the other cheek" mentality yet always wanted a designated goon on his roster. It's like he was totally averse to any type of after-the-whistle stuff unless it came from one specific player. Bizarre.

 

[True Blue]

And how many would be realistic adds for the Rangers? Where, how would they address this lack of toughness issue?

Team toughness starts with a certain type of mentality. That mentality can only be instilled by 1) coaches 2) FO that brings certain types of mentalities into the locker room. There is a blend that has to take place, but the tone from the top sets the pace.

 

[Thirty One]

It is kind of a curiosity that AV espoused this "turn the other cheek" mentality yet always wanted a designated goon on his roster. It's like he was totally averse to any type of after-the-whistle stuff unless it came from one specific player. Bizarre.

And even then, how many times do you remember Glass or McLeod going after someone because of something the other team did to a Ranger? It was always find someone else of similar size and skill and engage in a meaningless fight.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

It is kind of a curiosity that AV espoused this "turn the other cheek" mentality yet always wanted a designated goon on his roster. It's like he was totally averse to any type of after-the-whistle stuff unless it came from one specific player. Bizarre.

I think Kesler becoming a 40-40 selke winner once AV got him to cut out his after the whistle shenanigans made him think that’s the path to take with all non-goony types

 

[Harbour Dog]

Again, look at the 4th lines of teams like Vegas and Winnipeg. They're full of guys who can skate, cycle the puck, and make the opposition pay for every inch of ice.

In comparison, our 4th line looked like:
(young player being punished) - (washed up vet) - (scrub goon that rarely hits or fights)

 

[Thirty One]

I think Kesler becoming a 40-40 selke winner once AV got him to cut out his after the whistle shenanigans made him think that’s the path to take with all non-goony types

He got him to cut out his after the whistle shenanigans? Not the Ryan Kesler I know.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

He got him to cut out his after the whistle shenanigans? Not the Ryan Kesler I know.

I’m not saying it lasted all that long, but I remember that being a big story the year he got his selke

 

[nyr2k2]

And even then, how many times do you remember Glass or McLeod going after someone because of something the other team did to a Ranger? It was always find someone else of similar size and skill and engage in a meaningless fight.

Right. And this is the case because more often than not, if one of our guys is getting run, it's not by 4th-line-goon, but by some other random guy in the lineup. The enforcer isn't out there to enforce anything because he's generally shitty. And then you can't just send him out there to beat the guy's ass later because a) you expose yourself and b) there's an instigator penalty. It's why the concept of a real enforcer has disappeared.

 

[McRanger]

It is kind of a curiosity that AV espoused this "turn the other cheek" mentality yet always wanted a designated goon on his roster. It's like he was totally averse to any type of after-the-whistle stuff unless it came from one specific player. Bizarre.

Its not too surprising. He also liked playing uptempo games using guys who couldn't skate or handle the puck.

 

[NYR Viper]

There are guys out there who can play the game and are a PIA to play against. Look no further than Nashville with Austin Watson and Ryan Hartman. Guys who are a PIA must also be able to play but those guys are pretty unique. A team must put somewhat of an emphasis on playing that way as well. It's more than 1 or 2 guys.

I am also a fan of finding guys to play depth roles who play with a bit more edge. Marcus Foligno. Antoine Roussel. Leo Komarov. Valteri Filpulla. The guys need to be able to play the game and contribute but being difficult to play against is also important.