TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
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Fanned On It
Registered User
You're acting like guys are taking runs at hank... they're not... he doesn't have it as rough as you're making it seem.
eco's bones
Registered User
I don't understand what team toughness means to a lot of people. So when Milan Lucic takes an extra whack at our goalie after a whistle and Staal starts shoving with him and gets knocked on his ass and over comes Callahan to get the same is that what is meant? Because the probability of the matter is Lucic is going to go right back to the front of the net on his next shift and do exactly the same.
Again the Bruins are just one team that knows they are a tougher team than the Rangers. They take pride in the fact they are tough and it is an edge that can be used (not in all cases but in some) to affect the outcomes of this contest or that. To infer it means nothing is literally to stick your head in the sand. It can give a team a tactical advantage on any given night. So to me it's very important that other teams respect your ability to roughhouse. Does not mean you have to see fights every game but having the option or a deterrent if you will when it's needed is important. That these players can play is the next problem and there's a shortage of those who can around the league. They're hard to find.
The overriding factor in a lot of hockey games is not always talent--grit and heart are important too. No team is going to win consistently if it lacks talent but there are plenty of players with tons of talent but no grit and no heart and because of that they suck. It takes a mix to make a good hockey team. The Rangers going into training camp this year look to have a much better mix than what began last year but there are still things that could be improved on and toughness is one of them.
Again the Bruins are just one team that knows they are a tougher team than the Rangers. They take pride in the fact they are tough and it is an edge that can be used (not in all cases but in some) to affect the outcomes of this contest or that. To infer it means nothing is literally to stick your head in the sand. It can give a team a tactical advantage on any given night. So to me it's very important that other teams respect your ability to roughhouse. Does not mean you have to see fights every game but having the option or a deterrent if you will when it's needed is important. That these players can play is the next problem and there's a shortage of those who can around the league. They're hard to find.
The overriding factor in a lot of hockey games is not always talent--grit and heart are important too. No team is going to win consistently if it lacks talent but there are plenty of players with tons of talent but no grit and no heart and because of that they suck. It takes a mix to make a good hockey team. The Rangers going into training camp this year look to have a much better mix than what began last year but there are still things that could be improved on and toughness is one of them.
How many bangers have ever been effective at his age? At 38 & soon to be 39, he offers no more than Asham, Haley, Dorsett, or even Mashinter.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Sometimes I have to remind myself that there aren't all old timers around here.
Dorsett may not mind being challenged every night. But even though he may put the puck in the net a few more times than they did, he fights a lot like Hollweg or Voros. I don't think he's even a Purst in terms of fighting ability. He may have a role on the team, but if the Rangers are counting on him to provide intimidation by himself, they're in for a disappointment.
NYR Viper
Registered User
He is on a similar level to Prust except he throws more punches which is a good and bad thing. Prust is an excellent technical fighter.
I am not talking about a Rupp or Orr, I am talking about someone else who can drop the gloves when called upon to wake the team up or someone who can make a big hit. Those players seem to be few and far between in this new NHL.
I know exactly what you mean... McIlrath would be perfect for the Rangers, if he develops. A pest like Dorsett would then be much more effective.
OverTheCap
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2009
- 10,454
- 184
A cup winning hockey team needs a little bit of everything up and down the lineup and ideally on each line: skill, toughness, speed, two-way play, etc.
There needs to be a balance, and when I looks at the possible line configurations for this year's team, I don't think that balance is there yet. The toughness issue is one that probably gets touched on the most, but there is also a lack of offensive consistency and two-way players throughout the lineup when you compare this team to recent cup winners.
There needs to be a balance, and when I looks at the possible line configurations for this year's team, I don't think that balance is there yet. The toughness issue is one that probably gets touched on the most, but there is also a lack of offensive consistency and two-way players throughout the lineup when you compare this team to recent cup winners.
As far as them fighting I agree with you. However, here is Cloton Orr's best play ever as a NY Ranger. Earlier in the game, Ovechkin purposely came crashing into Lundqvist's knee and the Garden was deathly silent thinking Lundqvist was done for the season if not career.
That's why you need team toughness.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Even in just the few years since that incident, they have become less and less relevant.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
I personally like this one:
After Fedoruk made this ridiculous hit on Jagr (a non-puck carrier):
After Fedoruk made this ridiculous hit on Jagr (a non-puck carrier):
Agree about toughness/peskiness. Don't really have any brutes. Don't think a pure goon is the answer, but I have a feeling islanders may bully us a bit this year. IIRC, Dylan is 2-3 years away from what the scouts say. Dorsett is pretty much it. Boyle doesn't know how to use his size. Pyatt is decent along boards, but is a lamb in the rest of his game. Haley is a maniac, and I do like him, but not sure how much ice he is seeing this year. Kreider has some snarl to his game, hoping to see more of it with increased ice time. Hopefully Ulf can bring something we don't see out of the blue line.
NYR Viper
Registered User
I actually think "toughness" is the incorrect way to put this. I think this team is plenty "tough" with the way they block shots and hit and do all of that stuff. The part of the game that they are lacking is any sort of intimidation factor. When it comes time for the playoffs, teams hate to see guys like Chris Neil or Brandon Prust or Matt Hendricks because they make life miserable for the other teams on a nightly basis. They finish their checks, crossing the border occasionally, and they back it up when called upon. They create energy when the team is flat and they give everything to win games. That type of play is contagious and I 100% believe that is part of the reason the Rangers did so well a couple of years ago.
Chaels Arms
Formerly Lias Andersson
None of those players have accomplished anything significant in the playoffs in their entire careers. Chris Neil made it to the Finals with Ottawa. He averaged about 10 minutes time on ice during those playoffs and had 3 points in 15 games played. That's the high point. I don't think any of those three players is really improving any team's chances of playoff success.
NYR Viper
Registered User
I 100% disagree. There is more to the game than just points. Teams need those guys to bring energy and change momentum and make defensemen cough up the puck because they hear skates coming behind them. If you don't think Chris Neil is a very effective playoff player I don't know what else to tell you. Same goes for Brandon Prust.
Chaels Arms
Formerly Lias Andersson
You stated that those players are somehow conducive to playoff success. If that's true how come they haven't had any? Chris Neil and Brandon Prust are great for the roles they play. My point is that, in the grand scheme of an NHL team's overall success, those roles aren't as important as many on here seem to think. If they were that important you would see an actual correlation between having a Neil, Prust, and a Hendricks and achieving playoff success. That correlation doesn't exist.
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
- 9,755
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I just want to see some reaction, not asking for a brawl but when McD, Richards get crushed someone should go at least get in the face of whomever nailed them whether that be Lucic or Kaleta or whoever.
There was just something wrong with the team last year, and they still made it to the 2nd round, I'm cautiously optimistic they are actually going to be better this season.
There was just something wrong with the team last year, and they still made it to the 2nd round, I'm cautiously optimistic they are actually going to be better this season.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Brian Bickell. Andrew Shaw. Shawn Thornton. Gregory Campbell. Kyle Clifford. Dwight King.
Hell the Pens had Rupp, Asham, Cooke when they won.
Successful teams have a good balance which includes guys who can stand up for their teammates and turn the momentum in multiple ways.
Chaels Arms
Formerly Lias Andersson
I thought the theory behind players like Colton Orr is that they act as some sort of super menacing deterrence that ensures that plays like that never happen? Colton Orr was already well established on the Rangers and around the league when that play happened. If we accept the theory of goon supremacy shouldn't Alex Ovechkin have been too terrified of retribution to ever do something like that in the first place? And, seeing as how he obviously wasn't, doesn't that kind of weaken the whole point of having a Colton Orr at all?
NYR Viper
Registered User
I don't think many people want "goon supremacy", I think most people want some sort of an ability to react to a situation in a way that will at least plant the seed that if they do something dirty, they will have to answer to someone. That player does not need to be Orr. Prust was great at it.
There is no need to sign a John Scott or Colton Orr. Those players can be ignored. The Rangers lack anyone outside of Dorsett to even try and engage a Scott Hartnell, David Clarkson, Wayne Simmonds, Milan Lucic-like player.
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