Team Toughness II

[Ail]

When he's the only one of his kind, and the last one of his kind hasn't been in the league since the 90s. IE a true heavyweight that can do it all. It does make him a once in a generation talent.

Not in terms of scoring, but just what he brings to the game because there aren't any others like him.

Last Lucic type guys to play in the NHL were Neely and Lindros in the 90s.

Obviously everyone here looks at the term of generational talent in terms of the Crosby's and Lemeuixs, but I think what he was trying to point out is that Lucic, or a player like Lucic hasn't exactly been a commodity that is widely available.

Straight from HF's own rankings:

10. Generational Talent - a player for the ages, one who can do things with a puck that no other player would even contemplate doing. Very, very few players will be deserving of this rating, probably one per decade.

Defense: Bobby Orr
Forward: Wayne Gretzky
Goaltender: Patrick Roy

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

At risk of sounding like a broken record, this comes from the top. Sather has fostered a lazy, easy-way-out, culture.

Renney managed to overcome that because the standards were low and they stumbled upon a dynamic top line and elite goalie.

Torts managed to serve as a buffer between the players and the GM and demanded a level of play and intensity and the players bought in.

Now, with a roster that's not really suited to play any particular style and a softer coach, the team is amazingly fragile.

Sadly true. I don't see an identity for this team. Doesn't look like it's set in stone that there is/will be one any time soon, at least in the way I'm looking at it. Doesn't look like there's any resiliency. Taking shortcuts and easy ways out pretty much solidified that for this team.

 

[RangersHank*]

I made this argument several years ago...if you had a choice, David Krejci or Milan Lucic...not surprisingly, I picked Lucic and even less surprisingly, the same cast of characters preferred Krejci. Krejci is a very good player, Lucic is a generational talent.

Lucic is not a generational talent. He is a good 60 point power forward but he isnt a game breaker, he is a great complimentary piece.

 

[broadwayblue]

Lucic is not a generational talent. He is a good 60 point power forward but he isnt a game breaker, he is a great complimentary piece.

Yeah, Lucic is very solid...but a generational talent? That's a bit much.

 

[Orr Nightmare]

Ok before the toughness issue:

1. Scoring whether it is just the people who are supposed to be scoring like a Nash to get scoring or drafting someone like Draisaitl this year, if the Rangers are bad enough McDavid(double edge sword... I don't wanna see them that bad but it would be nice to have them draft McDavid). However, it is evident that Nash will not carry the team that was attempted in Columbus and now here, he needs some help with scoring. And this way people like Brassard, Callahan, Hags, etc will not be looked at to fill that #1 scoring position. Richards,Nash, Stepan, and Kreider (Stepan and Kreider not so much as Richie and Nash)

2. The breakout needs a better PMD I suggested someone like Edler who had his best years under AV, his trade value is low now but he's got a good contract.

3. Need Hank to become Hank again if he went back to normal this team would have a better record.

4. Is the toughness of the team, it is important because it does give a spark to the team at times. Reaves would be a good fit on the 4th line.

Games like last night and the Canucks game, prove that the team is able to score and play well.

So, you really didn't answer the question...we need scoring but have scorers who aren't scoring, we need a puck mover when DZ was supposed to be that guy, we need Hank to be Hank and then we need toughness.

So, they have attempted to meet all of your needs except toughness which they have none of in their entire system but once they satisfy all of those needs then they should address adding guys who can protect the stars.

 

[Orr Nightmare]

Yeah, Lucic is very solid...but a generational talent? That's a bit much.

How many guys in the league can do what Lucic does?

 

[Thirty One]

How many guys in the league can do what Lucic does?

He's definitely a very unique player, but I don't think that makes him a generational talent.

 

[Machinehead]

How many guys in the league can do what Lucic does?

Corey Perry, for one.

Neely, Probert, Claude Lemieux, prime Betuzzi, Shannhan, and LeClair did it and did it better.

Lucic is a unique player. But he's far from generational. There's better players in the same role now and alot better in the past.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

So, you really didn't answer the question...we need scoring but have scorers who aren't scoring, we need a puck mover when DZ was supposed to be that guy, we need Hank to be Hank and then we need toughness.

So, they have attempted to meet all of your needs except toughness which they have none of in their entire system but once they satisfy all of those needs then they should address adding guys who can protect the stars.

Your right trade away for toughness Buffalo has some tough people why aren't they contending?

They also have Ryan Miller, Christian Erhoff, and formerly had Vanek

Who on the Sharks has the only job of protecting the stars?


And if all you want is toughness call up Mcilrath, Bickel, Haley, and Asham

 

[Orr Nightmare]

Your right trade away for toughness Buffalo has some tough people why aren't they contending?

They also have Ryan Miller, Christian Erhoff, and formerly had Vanek

Who on the Sharks has the only job of protecting the stars?

Let's see...

Mike Brown
Andrew Desjardins
Raffia Torres
Brad Stuart
Adam Burish
Tyler Kennedy
Brett burns
Joe Thornton

All can also handle themselves.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

Let's see...

Mike Brown
Andrew Desjardins
Raffia Torres
Brad Stuart
Adam Burish
Tyler Kennedy
Brett burns
Joe Thornton

All can also handle themselves.

Torres is out been out since preseason yet.., still in 2011 put up 30 points

Kennedy is 5'11 183 hardly a fighter 16 fights in his career

Burns and Thornton both score as well

Burish is also injured

So having those players that can put up points as well as being tough (which I agreed with) end result is they can't be one dimensional and only tough the need to be skilled too

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Corey Perry, for one.

Neely, Probert, Claude Lemieux, prime Betuzzi, Shannhan, and LeClair did it and did it better.

Lucic is a unique player. But he's far from generational. There's better players in the same role now and alot better in the past.

LeClair was not much of a fighter although he would always be in front to score goals.... i can think of a few players that do what Lucic does, Jamie Benn, David Backes, Shane Doan, Evander Kane, Scott Hartnell, Wayne Simmonds

 

[Orr Nightmare]

Torres is out been out since preseason yet.., still in 2011 put up 30 points

Kennedy is 5'11 183 hardly a fighter 16 fights in his career

Burns and Thornton both score as well

Burish is also injured

All guys that play with an edge...we have none of that.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

All guys that play with an edge...we have none of that.

They still have skill and that is what the team needs but not specific tough guys that only fight and stick up for teammates

 

[Thirty One]

Let's see...

Mike Brown
Andrew Desjardins
Raffia Torres
Brad Stuart
Adam Burish
Tyler Kennedy
Brett burns
Joe Thornton

All can also handle themselves.

All guys that play with an edge...we have none of that.

I suppose if you were interested in presenting a balanced case you would have mentioned how Mike Brown plays less frequently than Justin Falk, Joe Thornton plays maybe slightly more physical than Nash at this point of his career, Tyler Kennedy plays like Ryan Callahan, and Adam Burish and Raffi Torres haven't played a game this season, so their TOFFNOSS obviously hasn't contributed to the Sharks' success.

 

[Orr Nightmare]

I suppose if you were interested in presenting a balanced case you would have mentioned how Mike Brown plays less frequently than Justin Falk, Joe Thornton plays maybe slightly more physical than Nash at this point of his career, Tyler Kennedy plays like Ryan Callahan, and Adam Burish and Raffi Torres haven't played a game this season, so their TOFFNOSS obviously hasn't contributed to the Sharks' success.

Let's trade for Dan Boyle...he will fix everything.

I am watching Sharks - Hawks and what do you know Mike Brown is on the ice.

Burish and Torres out and they have in house replacements. We lose Dorsett and we have to trade for a broken down Carcillo.

Mike Brown slaughters Falk in a fight.

Thorton in his softest state beats Nash.

Cally is breaking down every season. He is an old 28.

How is that for TOFFNESS.

 

[eco's bones]

I'm sorry San Jose is not a very tough team. What they are is a more than enough talented team that if your team is going to the penalty box too often they are going to make you pay with their pwp.

Brown is a good middleweight. Desjardins is a pretty good middleweight as well. Torres is a dirty player and a crap fighter. A lot of his fights are against smaller non-fighters or happen because someone is chasing after him after a dirty hit. Brad Stuart, Joe Thornton, Brett Burns are very infrequent fighters and not really that good at it. Tyler Kennedy is a smallish pest type--not anyone serious. Adam Burish has fought very little since his rookie year--about 6-7 years ago. He wasn't that good either and doesn't have an impressive list or record of those he has fought with.

It doesn't take a lot away from the point however that the Rangers are too soft. Our pwp is quite a bit better this year but it's hardly as lethal or as talented as San Jose's.

 

[Thirty One]

Let's trade for Dan Boyle...he will fix everything.

I don't believe anyone has said that, but Dan Boyle would help a whole lot more than Mike Brown.

I am watching Sharks - Hawks and what do you know Mike Brown is on the ice.

 

[Ail]

What they are is a more than enough talented team that if your team is going to the penalty box too often they are going to make you pay with their pwp.

Only video nerds think the PP is how you make someone pay for running your guys. Everyone knows that. Especially that video nerd Mike Babcock who told his team to make them pay on the PP during the winter classic game on 24/7.

What a wuss.

 

[Orr Nightmare]

I'm sorry San Jose is not a very tough team. What they are is a more than enough talented team that if your team is going to the penalty box too often they are going to make you pay with their pwp.

Brown is a good middleweight. Desjardins is a pretty good middleweight as well. Torres is a dirty player and a crap fighter. A lot of his fights are against smaller non-fighters or happen because someone is chasing after him after a dirty hit. Brad Stuart, Joe Thornton, Brett Burns are very infrequent fighters and not really that good at it. Tyler Kennedy is a smallish pest type--not anyone serious. Adam Burish has fought very little since his rookie year--about 6-7 years ago. He wasn't that good either and doesn't have an impressive list or record of those he has fought with.

It doesn't take a lot away from the point however that the Rangers are too soft. Our pwp is quite a bit better this year but it's hardly as lethal or as talented as San Jose's.

That is my point...Sharks are soft but still much tougher than ours.

 

[Orr Nightmare]

I don't believe anyone has said that, but Dan Boyle would help a whole lot more than Mike Brown.

You like men in prison is that the point u r trying to make...

 

[Callagraves]

I made this argument several years ago...if you had a choice, David Krejci or Milan Lucic...not surprisingly, I picked Lucic and even less surprisingly, the same cast of characters preferred Krejci. Krejci is a very good player, Lucic is a generational talent.

 

[eco's bones]

Lucic is a very unique player. He has enough skating and skill to be respected just for those alone. The size, his hitting, his ability and determination to go into the combat areas and win the lion's share of the battles, the ability to fight. He can be an intimidating player. He's not a great player by any means but he's a player that if used well tactically can bend any given game he's playing in to the Bruins favor. Doesn't appear to be a future HOF'er at this point in time though it's possible that he'll be in the conversation when his career is done.

 

[Thirty One]

You like men in prison is that the point u r trying to make...

u so funnai

 

[Raspewtin]

There's no dimension of the universe where Lucic is a generational talent. None. He's not even the best power forward in the league anymore.