World Cup: Team North-America's future

[JackSlater]

This tournament is closer to the All-Star fantasy Draft teams[/B] and it has been extremely entertaining this far. The reasons that WC bashers have said the tournament will fail (players won't care, it will be slow and non-physical, no viewership, etc.) are all clearly falling by the wayside. Now those haters are clinging to "what about the future?!?" when the reality is that nobody has any idea what the future of the tournament looks like. They could easily wipe out Team NA and Europe and add two fringe countries. I doubt it though, because replacing Team NA with a Switzerland-type would be replacing a ridiculously exciting team to watch with a team that gets easily destroyed. But hey, it would be closer to the Olympics right?

Good of you to comment when you apparently haven't even followed the discussion, as the biggest issue has always been about this tournament's impact on the future. The bolded also clearly indicates that you in fact agree with basically the main point that the people who are against this tournament are making, as it is indeed an all star fantasy tournament. Clearly you misunderstand what this tournament was and what it is clearly supposed to be according to the NHL, but that's been pretty common around here lately. If you want to enjoy the exhibition though, no one is stopping you.

For me it is one and done with Team North America and Team Europe, don't want to see it again after this go around.

I have resigned myself to what it was a couple of months ago and have tried to make the best of it and I am enjoying it so far but a World cup has to be about only national teams, you can argue whether it should only be a 6 team tournament or 8 or whatever but it has to go back to being only national teams after this.

Just watching Connor Mcdavid I know he would really help Team Canada already and really should be on our team, makes me sick to think he would not be on the next version of Team Canada either if this continues.

It is supposed to be an international competition in it's ENTIRETY, this is not.

It can't continue on. It will be pretty fun and different for a one time thing but that is exactly what it should be..............a one time thing.

Your assessment is pretty accurate. If it was confirmed that this was a one time thing, or if there was even a strong reason to suspect that, a lot of the animosity would be gone. The success of this tournament potentially leading to NHL withdrawal from the Olympics (as per the NHL's deputy commissioner) and the continuation of these gimmicks is a big problem though. Remove those and it would be a harmless exhibition, and there is little problem with that.

I will say this about the gimmicks if they continue. I doubt that the Young Gunz will have the first pick of "returnees". Just speculation of course. I really doubt that Hockey Canada would be willing to give up 2020 McDavid, or that USA Hockey would sign on to give up 2020 Matthews. Hard to see Canadians accepting likely the best player in the game playing for some other team. Though, since so many don't care about nationality in a World Cup and seemingly just want the most balanced exhibition they can get, I may be completely wrong.

Players switch teams they've played against all the time. This includes real deep rivalries as. It's not like team North America is gonna have bad blood, and even if they did, all would be forgiven. Lindros wanted Kasperitis on his team despite delivering a near career ending hit to his head.

... we aren't discussing a league, where there are free agents and trades. International competition exists to have athletes representing their country, not just hoping around to whoever will take them like in a league.

 

[johna2626]

Ultimately, all that matters is the tournament features great hockey. IT really doesn't matter who the teams are, fans will ultimately care if they're watching great hockey. I would love to see NA vs Canada in a semi final. Young guys trying to show their "big brothers" that they are the new force, the "old guys" trying to keep these guys down.

I thought it was a stupid gimmick for a long time but the more I think about it the more I like it. Almost all of these guys wouldn't make their national teams but they are fantastic players. They will play with tons of speed and skills and could surprize in a short tournament, despite being a definite underdog.

I have a few more gimmick teams that I think could be a lot of fun. Team Canada B, and the Stanley Cup Champs. I would suggest they keep the Youngstars and add one of those teams instead of the Euro All Stars.

The NHL Allstar game used to be SC Champs vs the Allstars. I think it really honours the Stanley Cup and puts that team on a pedestal. Could be really interesting. Guys from the Champs would not be available for their country/Youngstars team.

Team Canada B...why not? We've been saying for years Canada could send 2 teams. Let's find out? In other international tournaments we sometimes see Canada West and East play against national teams. Look how good Canada B would be:

Hall - O Reilly - Gallagher
Skinner - Spezza - Simmons
Lucic - Brassard - Toffoli
Ladd - Sharp - Nash
Stone, Eberle

Brodie - Letang
Giordano - Subban
Hamhuis - Seabrook
Hamonic

Fleury
Elliott
Jones

Put that roster up against Finland, Czech, etc. I think they'd be a top 4-5 team that could easily win, even against Canada A. Biggest weakness is down the middle.

I wouldn't care at all if they did this. I actually think it would be cool if they did a Team Quebec, Team Ontario, and Team BC type of thing too. Can't believe there are so many closet Denmark fans out there. I don't see why people care about TNA and Team Europe. They're 100x more interesting than Leon Draisaitl and the team of fourth liners that would play for Germany. It's a preseason tournament that was just created. It's making the NHL good money, and giving the fans better hockey than the preseason did. Put out some more gimmicks if you ask me

 

[jj cale]

Your assessment is pretty accurate. If it was confirmed that this was a one time thing, or if there was even a strong reason to suspect that, a lot of the animosity would be gone. The success of this tournament potentially leading to NHL withdrawal from the Olympics (as per the NHL's deputy commissioner) and the continuation of these gimmicks is a big problem though. Remove those and it would be a harmless exhibition, and there is little problem with that.

I will say this about the gimmicks if they continue. I doubt that the Young Gunz will have the first pick of "returnees". Just speculation of course. I really doubt that Hockey Canada would be willing to give up 2020 McDavid, or that USA Hockey would sign on to give up 2020 Matthews. Hard to see Canadians accepting likely the best player in the game playing for some other team. Though, since so many don't care about nationality in a World Cup and seemingly just want the most balanced exhibition they can get, I may be completely wrong.

I trust it will not continue in the future, if it does i won't watch in protest. How will it effect future nHL participation in the future? well, I am not even sure I care all that much as long as the gimmick teams are gone next time and we get a pure international event. I cetainly would like the olympics to carry on but the old Canada/world cups were every bit if as significant if not more so then the olympics to me so if they can put on a proper tournament as a world cup and there is no olympics I am o.k with that.The I.O.C bailing out on player insurance is as much to blame for why the league may not participate as anything else so if they don't go halfway to meet the league then they deserve what they get IMO. I would really like the NHL and IIHF to work together for a world class event in the future but i guess that is asking too much, and that would probably be all the NHL's fault I would bet, they don't want to relinquish any control. I guess as it stands having the continued participation in the OLYS is the best way to go, but both sides are fumbling the ball.

P.S: Connor Mcdavid and Austin Matthews on a Team NA next time around? yeah, that would not fly at all with both team Canadas and team uSAs brass or fans at all. I think you have highlighted what will provide the garuntee there won't be a team NA at this thing the next time.

 

[GoldiFox]

Good of you to comment when you apparently haven't even followed the discussion, as the biggest issue has always been about this tournament's impact on the future. The bolded also clearly indicates that you in fact agree with basically the main point that the people who are against this tournament are making, as it is indeed an all star fantasy tournament. Clearly you misunderstand what this tournament was and what it is clearly supposed to be according to the NHL, but that's been pretty common around here lately. If you want to enjoy the exhibition though, no one is stopping you.

The only misunderstanding is the idea some people have that since this tournament didn't meet there specific expectations that somehow it is a horrifying abomination. I am enjoying the tournament, you would too if you came down from that ivory tower and realized that some of the best hockey players in the world are on the ice in September playing like it is the Playoffs.

The Olympics are the only venue where Nationalities matter. If the NHL drops out of the Olympics due to the rampant corruption through the IOC and the continued human rights violations that it creates then that is a choice I can live with.

This tournament is about entertainment value. For 99% of hockey fans, it is more exciting to see McDavid leading a team of the best young talent in the NHL than seeing a Switzerland team that would simply get destroyed. It is all about the entertainment value which will drive viewership and revenue.

A young team also speaks to young fans. Young fans are a key demographic for the NHL, they spend an incredible amount of money targeting the teen/young adult as these individuals dictate a lot of their family's discretionary spending. Team NA is a winning value proposition any way you cut it.

As for the future... Who can say what they do? The NHL has said nothing definitive, complaining about an undefined tournament that will happen 2 years from now is asanine.

 

[Nordic*]

I think all nations involved should have access to their best players, regardless of age.

But when these teams have decided their rosters, one Europe U-24 team and one NA U-24 team can be created from the players that weren't picked.

That team U-24 Europe would without be more competitive than "rest of Europe" in this tourny today.

 

[JackSlater]

The only misunderstanding is the idea some people have that since this tournament didn't meet there specific expectations that somehow it is a horrifying abomination. I am enjoying the tournament, you would too if you came down from that ivory tower and realized that some of the best hockey players in the world are on the ice in September playing like it is the Playoffs.

Ah yes, the old straw man when your position is too difficult to accurately defend. I don't think I've seen anyone call this tournament a "horrifying abomination". I have seen people refer to this as an international or best on best tournament however, which is the primary misunderstanding. One scholar even noted that the exhibition games are more serious than the Stanley Cup playoffs.

The Olympics are the only venue where Nationalities matter. If the NHL drops out of the Olympics due to the rampant corruption through the IOC and the continued human rights violations that it creates then that is a choice I can live with.

I have to assume that you never followed this tournament or its history at all, and that you haven't even read about it, since you have concluded that nationality hasn't mattered outside of the Olympics in the past. For Canadians anyway, most of Canada's biggest hockey moments have happened outside of the Olympics. As for why the NHL is likely leaving the Olympics, pretty laughable to say that it is due to IOC corruption or human rights violations. That is a new one. The NHL has never remotely cited those reasons, but has for over a decade cited business reasons. The NHL has the right to leave, but there is nothing to indicate that the desire to leave is based some moral stance.

This tournament is about entertainment value. For 99% of hockey fans, it is more exciting to see McDavid leading a team of the best young talent in the NHL than seeing a Switzerland team that would simply get destroyed. It is all about the entertainment value which will drive viewership and revenue.

A young team also speaks to young fans. Young fans are a key demographic for the NHL, they spend an incredible amount of money targeting the teen/young adult as these individuals dictate a lot of their family's discretionary spending. Team NA is a winning value proposition any way you cut it.

As for the future... Who can say what they do? The NHL has said nothing definitive, complaining about an undefined tournament that will happen 2 years from now is asanine.

Once again, if you or anyone else want to enjoy the tournament as some all star exhibition, no one is stopping you. Enjoy. I'll be sure to check back with you as to when it is no longer "asanine" to be displeased with an entertainment product.

 

[stars33]

The only misunderstanding is the idea some people have that since this tournament didn't meet there specific expectations that somehow it is a horrifying abomination. I am enjoying the tournament, you would too if you came down from that ivory tower and realized that some of the best hockey players in the world are on the ice in September playing like it is the Playoffs.

The Olympics are the only venue where Nationalities matter. If the NHL drops out of the Olympics due to the rampant corruption through the IOC and the continued human rights violations that it creates then that is a choice I can live with.

This tournament is about entertainment value. For 99% of hockey fans, it is more exciting to see McDavid leading a team of the best young talent in the NHL than seeing a Switzerland team that would simply get destroyed. It is all about the entertainment value which will drive viewership and revenue.

A young team also speaks to young fans. Young fans are a key demographic for the NHL, they spend an incredible amount of money targeting the teen/young adult as these individuals dictate a lot of their family's discretionary spending. Team NA is a winning value proposition any way you cut it.

As for the future... Who can say what they do? The NHL has said nothing definitive, complaining about an undefined tournament that will happen 2 years from now is asanine.

People watch sports for all different reasons. It could be the athleticism, the drama or the superstar personalities. But the one thing that ties all the viewers together is the bond rooting for a team that represents you the viewer. This bond to the team and its many fans has been created by clubs representing a college, city, state or nation. These fake world cup teams do not represent anybody. These teams will not create emotional bond with viewers. Hockey fans may watch now because of the curiosity factor like when people pass a car accident. But there will be no long term connection to these fake teams. This means no one is getting mad if they lose or feeling that sense of euphoria if they win. I do not have interest in this tournament with fake teams or see the entertainment value connected to it.

 

[Ben White]

People watch sports for all different reasons. It could be the athleticism, the drama or the superstar personalities. But the one thing that ties all the viewers together is the bond rooting for a team that represents you the viewer. This bond to the team and its many fans has been created by clubs representing a college, city, state or nation. These fake world cup teams do not represent anybody. These teams will not create emotional bond with viewers. Hockey fans may watch now because of the curiosity factor like when people pass a car accident. But there will be no long term connection to these fake teams. This means no one is getting mad if they lose or feeling that sense of euphoria if they win. I do not have interest in this tournament with fake teams or see the entertainment value connected to it.

This.

 

[OkimLom]

Lots of people have bashed this tournament for many reasons, and there is another one which I don't think very many people have talked about: Team North-America's future.

See, in any sports' international competition, players represent their country and they continue to do so until retirement. There is a sort of continuity. But in the World Cup of Hockey, Team N-A will not be able to do this. Actually, in this first tournament Team N-A will face Canada and the United States, and then, 4 years after, most of Team N-A will move on to play FOR Canada and the United States.

Wait, what?

McDavid, Gaudreau, Ekblad, etc are part of team N-A, but in 4 years they will be the main cogs for CAN and USA. A new wave of prospects will suit up for team N-A, and then 4 years after they will suit up for CAN and USA, and on and on.

Am I the only one who sees an issue with this?

I don't take issue.

If they continue the North America trend, then it's going to be the best players that couldn't crack team USA or Canada, and judging on the talent alone will be hard to do for future young guys.

I think they just struck lightning in a bottle with this current team. How often will you get three young kids who are as talented as Eichel, McDavid, Matthews, and Ekblad on the team then add in such great players like MacKinnon, Gaudreau, Jones.

We're talking about guys who are 23 and under, not 19 and younger. If the top guys graduate you'll still have really talented players. The team may be as talented as the current Team Europe. Nothing wrong with that.

For a sport that needs as much marketing as the NHL, the best thing they can do is showcase the talents they have. Unfortunately they don't have that yet with their TV contracts.

Personally, I would've done this at the end of the season instead of the beginning of the season. You're risking serious injury and revenue drivers by playing this before the upcoming season.

 

[Ben White]

The only misunderstanding is the idea some people have that since this tournament didn't meet there specific expectations that somehow it is a horrifying abomination. I am enjoying the tournament, you would too if you came down from that ivory tower and realized that some of the best hockey players in the world are on the ice in September playing like it is the Playoffs.

The Olympics are the only venue where Nationalities matter. If the NHL drops out of the Olympics due to the rampant corruption through the IOC and the continued human rights violations that it creates then that is a choice I can live with.

This tournament is about entertainment value. For 99% of hockey fans, it is more exciting to see McDavid leading a team of the best young talent in the NHL than seeing a Switzerland team that would simply get destroyed. It is all about the entertainment value which will drive viewership and revenue.

A young team also speaks to young fans. Young fans are a key demographic for the NHL, they spend an incredible amount of money targeting the teen/young adult as these individuals dictate a lot of their family's discretionary spending. Team NA is a winning value proposition any way you cut it.

As for the future... Who can say what they do? The NHL has said nothing definitive, complaining about an undefined tournament that will happen 2 years from now is asanine.

This was the most horrifying post and the most depressing view of sports in general that I ever read

 

[Kamiccolo]

Id tonights game still exhibition?

 

[MrOT]

People watch sports for all different reasons. It could be the athleticism, the drama or the superstar personalities. But the one thing that ties all the viewers together is the bond rooting for a team that represents you the viewer. This bond to the team and its many fans has been created by clubs representing a college, city, state or nation. These fake world cup teams do not represent anybody. These teams will not create emotional bond with viewers. Hockey fans may watch now because of the curiosity factor like when people pass a car accident. But there will be no long term connection to these fake teams. This means no one is getting mad if they lose or feeling that sense of euphoria if they win. I do not have interest in this tournament with fake teams or see the entertainment value connected to it.

It´s only in America you have a "closed" professional league, an entertainment yippo where nobody is getting in based on sport results, only through money. In Europe, in soccer and even hockey and basically all sports, it´s still (in theory) possible for an amateur team in the 7th league to within 7 years climb up to the elite league based on results only, with no money only through talent. That´s the beauty of real sports. You Americans seem to have forgot this since some of you mix up an international tournament with an All Star event. I think every European or non-American would be really sad reading some of these posts.

 

[MrOT]

This was the most horrifying post and the most depressing view of sports in general that I ever read

More than agree

 

[Plub]

It´s only in America you have a "closed" professional league, an entertainment yippo where nobody is getting in based on sport results, only through money. In Europe, in soccer and even hockey and basically all sports, it´s still (in theory) possible for an amateur team in the 7th league to within 7 years climb up to the elite league based on results only, with no money only through talent. That´s the beauty of real sports. You Americans seem to have forgot this since some of you mix up an international tournament with an All Star event. I think every European or non-American would be really sad reading some of these posts.

If only us Americans could figure out it's all about real talent in sports, maybe we would do better at the Olympics. Right?

Get over yourself EU.

 

[Seanaconda]

It´s only in America you have a "closed" professional league, an entertainment yippo where nobody is getting in based on sport results, only through money. In Europe, in soccer and even hockey and basically all sports, it´s still (in theory) possible for an amateur team in the 7th league to within 7 years climb up to the elite league based on results only, with no money only through talent. That´s the beauty of real sports. You Americans seem to have forgot this since some of you mix up an international tournament with an All Star event. I think every European or non-American would be really sad reading some of these posts.

No money only through talent. Lmao are you kidding? It's nice soccer has relegation. Hockey doesn't really have the logistics for that in North America.

But soccer has no salary cap doesn't draft players so the rich teams can buy kids parents houses or pay for there medical treatments so they sign for them.

With transfer agreements they can pretty well get the best players from the poor teams anyways if they feel like spending the money.

Rich teams in soccer tend to have the talent and they are the clubs that mostly win. Or am I horribly wrong about this ?

 

[MrOT]

If only us Americans could figure out it's all about real talent in sports, maybe we would do better at the Olympics. Right?

Get over yourself EU.

Did you read the post? What a non-answer

 

[Xokkeu]

No money only through talent. Lmao are you kidding? It's nice soccer has relegation. Hockey doesn't really have the logistics for that in North America.

But soccer has no salary cap doesn't draft players so the rich teams can buy kids parents houses or pay for there medical treatments so they sign for them.

With transfer agreements they can pretty well get the best players from the poor teams anyways if they feel like spending the money.

Rich teams in soccer tend to have the talent and they are the clubs that mostly win. Or am I horribly wrong about this ?

Generally yes the rich teams all have the talent. Although smart mid level wealthy teams can make runs to titles like Porto, Borissia Dortmund or Leicester. Leicester being one of the biggest underdog stories ever

 

[MrOT]

No money only through talent. Lmao are you kidding? It's nice soccer has relegation. Hockey doesn't really have the logistics for that in North America.

But soccer has no salary cap doesn't draft players so the rich teams can buy kids parents houses or pay for there medical treatments so they sign for them.

With transfer agreements they can pretty well get the best players from the poor teams anyways if they feel like spending the money.

Rich teams in soccer tend to have the talent and they are the clubs that mostly win. Or am I horribly wrong about this ?

First of all you´re wrong about that it´s only soccer. The European hockey leagues, at least most of them, have the same system. It´s an ever ongoing qualifying system which would (if it was in the NHL) make it possible for a city that could maintain a better hockey culture and make better results to beat a team with better sponsors for example and earn their spot in the NHL through results in competition, not through financial expectations. As I wrote, it´s only in theory that the amateur small town club beats the bigger clubs nowdays, but in the past we had those kind of heroic stories in Sweden. The NA leagues works in a different way, a different culture, maybe that´s why the NHL doesn´t think it´s neccesary that countries get a fair chance to qualifye for this tournament. In the European sports culture that is something that many of us just view as unfair so we don´t take the event as a "serious" tournament, among other reasons like the fake teams.

 

[Xokkeu]

Players switch teams they've played against all the time. This includes real deep rivalries as. It's not like team North America is gonna have bad blood, and even if they did, all would be forgiven. Lindros wanted Kasperitis on his team despite delivering a near career ending hit to his head.


This isn't a war, despite what some might want to believe. I don't think any of those guys have a problem with this.

This is why international competition is so special. You play for the same team your entire career, the place you grow up and learned the game. Not some silliness where a kid from Toronto plays in Tampa and a kid from Phoenix plays in Toronto.

If I wanted to watch fake teams I'd watch the NHL. I don't need the NHL to try an destroy intentional competition for a financial benefit I will never be apart of.

 

[MrOT]

This is why international competition is so special. You play for the same team your entire career, the place you grow up and learned the game. Not some silliness where a kid from Toronto plays in Tampa and a kid from Phoenix plays in Toronto.


If I wanted to watch fake teams I'd watch the NHL. I don't need the NHL to try an destroy intentional competition for a financial benefit I will never be apart of.

This.

 

[Boxscore]

I think it's incredible for marketing the game. What better way to get fans invested into the league that to root for an "underdog" team filled with the league's best young talent that you can latch onto for the next 10-12 years?

 

[Get North]

I think it's incredible for marketing the game. What better way to get fans invested into the league that to root for an "underdog" team filled with the league's best young talent that you can latch onto for the next 10-12 years?

How are we marketing it if the only people watching it are North Americans and some Europeans? This tournament doesn't matter anywhere else, it's in Toronto with a ton of hype on NA teams.

Bettman is a sack of ****. He wants to grow the game, but look at this tournament. Eliminate outside European countries and only leave NHL players in this tournament. People who think he is doing a good job are terrible and dumb. Bettman is nothing but a hypocrite, how do you grow the game when you never want to go to the Olympics? NHL is run by a bunch of idiots, NBA, MLB, NFL are doing a much better job and it starts with the commissioner.

 

[Xokkeu]

I think it's incredible for marketing the game. What better way to get fans invested into the league that to root for an "underdog" team filled with the league's best young talent that you can latch onto for the next 10-12 years?

Marketing to who? Canada already likes hockey. America is busy watching football and the few European hockey fans that would stay up to 4am to watch this seem to find the idea of team Europe and North America as unnecessary.

 

[PAZ]

The main issue with this is balancing selling the tournament to both the fans and players.

If the tournament wasn't called the World Cup, fans wouldn't have any issues with it. However, if it was called the All-star Cup, the players would definitely not care as much. Accept what it is this year, and see if they can make the proper changes for the next time it comes around.

 

[Mr Positive]

The NA team is entertaining but I don't like the principle of it. Maybe the fact that it is entertaining is enough I suppose. Ideally, I think a team that is in team Europe ascends out of that group and becomes a full team on its own, replacing the NA team.

About the Euro team, I like the idea of team Europe as a sort of relegation team. It gives a way for great players on lower national squads to be competitive on a bigger scale. Arguably, it reflects the principle of Olympic sport better than the Olympics do. If the best player in the world were a Serbian or Turkish, that athlete would never even get a chance at winning an Olympic medal, but they could definitely win a World Cup.