WC: Team Finland

[illone84]

Also, Aho and Teräväinen still haven't said this or that. Some say it's a bad sign, but I really don't know if it is. If they were inclined to decline, why can't they just get it over with, like all the other no-shows?

I agree. But didn't Armia do the same last year?

Otherwise, I'm really hopeful that TT and Aho are just waiting to see if others (Granlund, Rantanen, Vatanen, etc) will come after the first round of the nhl playoffs conclude.

 

[Retroglyphs]

I agree. But didn't Armia do the same last year?

Otherwise, I'm really hopeful that TT and Aho are just waiting to see if others (Granlund, Rantanen, Vatanen, etc) will come after the first round of the nhl playoffs conclude.

"just waiting to see if..."

If that's the attitude, then good night.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Its really a no brainer that all of this is happening because of Marjamäki
- they are saying no, because they don't want to play Marjamäki style of (mind numbing loser) hockey.

This stuff has happened with other countries/players in the past
why Team Finland,Finnish players be any different, we just don't have the courage
to say it publicly on media.

Also, we usually have a coach who can win us games,medals, plural, we usually have great international
team coaches, we have not have had a coach like this in a long time in men's hockey, so there's that as well.

 

[Mestaruus]

Anaheim is now out and their AHL team San Diego Gulls isn't playing in the AHL playoffs.

So Kalle Kossila is free. He can play center or wing and I believe that we are lacking some good centers now with Barkov and Kontiola not coming. No clue about Koskiranta. Koivu will probably decline. They should give Kossila a chance if he wants to come. Try him out in EHT Sweden tournament at least.

He had a good season in AHL with 54 points in 55 games (21+33). +/- +2.
In NHL he had 10 games and 2 points. +/- -4.

 

[FiLe]

Here's some food for thought for people who think it's all Marjamäki's fault.

First of all, it is true that coaches can get bad rep, and not be popular with players. However, coaches do NOT earn their reputation among players based on hearsay. If a player has soured on a coach, it is because he's had a bad experience with the coach personally. No player decides they want to avoid a coach because some other player told them at a table at McDonald's that "man, that coach is an a-hole". If that was true, *every* coach in Finland would have trouble finding players willing to play for them.

Now, when take the above into account, how many NHLers have declined thus far who have 1) played under Marjamäki before and 2) seemingly no "good" reason to decline? I'm counting two - Ristolainen and Lindell. So not exactly a mass exodus yet, especially since Risto can famously decline no matter who is out there. Out of the other decliners, Barkov and Jokinen have been under Marjamäki before, but like I said, they have reasons that are perfectly valid.

Niemi, Raanta and Lehkonen may have suspect reasons (or not), but they have not played a single game under LM.

Then there's Puljujärvi - and potentially Aho, if he declines - who are not unknown to him... but they're in the other end of the spectrum. They're his familiars. Both have spent three or so seasons playing under him in Kärpät, Aho was both in the World Cup and came back for more "punishment" in last year's WHC, and Puljujärvi obviously received some preferential treatment from the coach as well when he was picked last year. I've a hard time believing they've suddenly soured on Marjamäki so much that after all this time, they want to flip him off here.

Now, if Teräväinen declines, he could arguably be chalked under the same column as Lindell and Ristolainen - players whose cereals have potentially been spiked by Marjamäki at some point.

But, despite all this, can we say Marjamäki not being a popular figure with our top players is a myth? Well, no. But neither can we say it is an irrefutable fact. We currently don't have enough data suggesting either conclusion. What we can say is that people blaming it on the coach are definitely jumping the gun here. We have had mass declinations before, in fact it was more than one year when it was the same song and dance with J.Jalonen. "NHLers don't want to come because of his EHT tactics", and so forth. And even Erkka remembers a time when he had difficulties putting a team together.

 

[TSN Jdog]

Here's some food for thought for people who think it's all Marjamäki's fault.

First of all, it is true that coaches can get bad rep, and not be popular with players. However, coaches do NOT earn their reputation among players based on hearsay. If a player has soured on a coach, it is because he's had a bad experience with the coach personally. No player decides they want to avoid a coach because some other player told them at a table at McDonald's that "man, that coach is an a-hole". If that was true, *every* coach in Finland would have trouble finding players willing to play for them.

Now, when take the above into account, how many NHLers have declined thus far who have 1) played under Marjamäki before and 2) seemingly no "good" reason to decline? I'm counting two - Ristolainen and Lindell. So not exactly a mass exodus yet, especially since Risto can famously decline no matter who is out there. Out of the other decliners, Barkov and Jokinen have been under Marjamäki before, but like I said, they have reasons that are perfectly valid.

Niemi, Raanta and Lehkonen may have suspect reasons (or not), but they have not played a single game under LM.

Then there's Puljujärvi - and potentially Aho, if he declines - who are not unknown to him... but they're in the other end of the spectrum. They're his familiars. Both have spent three or so seasons playing under him in Kärpät, Aho was both in the World Cup and came back for more "punishment" in last year's WHC, and Puljujärvi obviously received some preferential treatment from the coach as well when he was picked last year. I've a hard time believing they've suddenly soured on Marjamäki so much that after all this time, they want to flip him off here.

Now, if Teräväinen declines, he could arguably be chalked under the same column as Lindell and Ristolainen - players whose cereals have potentially been spiked by Marjamäki at some point.

But, despite all this, can we say Marjamäki not being a popular figure with our top players is a myth? Well, no. But neither can we say it is an irrefutable fact. We currently don't have enough data suggesting either conclusion. What we can say is that people blaming it on the coach are definitely jumping the gun here. We have had mass declinations before, in fact it was more than one year when it was the same song and dance with J.Jalonen. "NHLers don't want to come because of his EHT tactics", and so forth. And even Erkka remembers a time when he had difficulties putting a team together.

Was Puljujarvi not benched last tournament? How is that considered preferential treatment?

Very good write up

 

[FiLe]

Was Puljujarvi not benched last tournament? How is that considered preferential treatment?

What I meant is that Marjamäki gave him preferential treatment when he was putting the team together. An argument could be made that he chose Puljujärvi over other, more merited players also fit for the same role because of their previous familiarity. My apologies for the unclarity. Besides, it kinda flew under the radar because in the eyes of the fans, Pulju was a "shiny new toy" and thus easier to stomach (I didn't complain much either), and there was an even more blatant case of coach favoritism - namely, when Marjamäki picked Juhamatti Aaltonen.

The coach didn't really extend the treatment to actual management of the picked team, in that you're correct. Puljujärvi started as an extra forward, he didn't make it to the ice before there was a "nothing-to-lose-and-everything-to-gain" situation, and he arguably earned his spot by his performance then. Also, he was the first out of the rotation when it was clear he couldn't actually produce despite "looking" good.

But in any case, I really doubt Puljujärvi is a player who declined because he can't stand the coach.

 

[Mestaruus]

Niemi, Raanta and Lehkonen may have suspect reasons (or not), but they have not played a single game under LM.

I know that this wasn't your post's point but I just wanna say that I'm pretty sure that Raanta hasn't officially declined yet. I read that one story someone linked here before and if that's the only source for the decline, then not believing it.

Lehkonen is pretty much the same as Ristolainen. I can believe that Lehkonen had some injuries last year or this year, one or the other but it's not too hard to see that national team isn't his thing anymore after winning some WJC gold.

Only best on best seem to matter for those guys and I would love it if both of them didn't join for best on best tournaments either. They should go golfing to The Bahamas when the best on best tournaments start. We may not have another defender from Finland that is the level of Ristolainen but I would rather not have him playing in best on best tournaments since it's such a burden for this princess to take few weeks off from his practice to represent Finland more often.

With few weeks I mean few weeks. I agree that 6 weeks is too long and NHL players should be allowed to join the team as late as possible so it takes only 2-3 weeks away from their summer training. Skipping all EHT games should be fine and the first games of WHC should be treated as practice games. There are some weak countries in the mix anyways. I know that doing it like I mentioned hurts the team chemistry but I would rather see more of our best guys in each tournament, mainly the younger guys. I think our veterans have done their part and I don't care if they decline (Jokinen, Filppula, Koivu, Lehterä, Komarov, Kontiola, Rinne etc).

 

[WhatWhat]

Here's some food for thought for people who think it's all Marjamäki's fault.

First of all, it is true that coaches can get bad rep, and not be popular with players. However, coaches do NOT earn their reputation among players based on hearsay. If a player has soured on a coach, it is because he's had a bad experience with the coach personally. No player decides they want to avoid a coach because some other player told them at a table at McDonald's that "man, that coach is an a-hole". If that was true, *every* coach in Finland would have trouble finding players willing to play for them.

Now, when take the above into account, how many NHLers have declined thus far who have 1) played under Marjamäki before and 2) seemingly no "good" reason to decline? I'm counting two - Ristolainen and Lindell. So not exactly a mass exodus yet, especially since Risto can famously decline no matter who is out there. Out of the other decliners, Barkov and Jokinen have been under Marjamäki before, but like I said, they have reasons that are perfectly valid.

Niemi, Raanta and Lehkonen may have suspect reasons (or not), but they have not played a single game under LM.

Then there's Puljujärvi - and potentially Aho, if he declines - who are not unknown to him... but they're in the other end of the spectrum. They're his familiars. Both have spent three or so seasons playing under him in Kärpät, Aho was both in the World Cup and came back for more "punishment" in last year's WHC, and Puljujärvi obviously received some preferential treatment from the coach as well when he was picked last year. I've a hard time believing they've suddenly soured on Marjamäki so much that after all this time, they want to flip him off here.

Now, if Teräväinen declines, he could arguably be chalked under the same column as Lindell and Ristolainen - players whose cereals have potentially been spiked by Marjamäki at some point.

But, despite all this, can we say Marjamäki not being a popular figure with our top players is a myth? Well, no. But neither can we say it is an irrefutable fact. We currently don't have enough data suggesting either conclusion. What we can say is that people blaming it on the coach are definitely jumping the gun here. We have had mass declinations before, in fact it was more than one year when it was the same song and dance with J.Jalonen. "NHLers don't want to come because of his EHT tactics", and so forth. And even Erkka remembers a time when he had difficulties putting a team together.

Lindell was hurt at the end of the season. For the last few games we regularly would warm up with 7D in Dallas because one of the D was a game time decision for the last 2 weeks. After the season the only update about a banged up player was on Lindell so its pretty safe to assume he is nursing something and wants it to heal

 

[BrettHullsToe]

Lindell was hurt at the end of the season. For the last few games we regularly would warm up with 7D in Dallas because one of the D was a game time decision for the last 2 weeks. After the season the only update about a banged up player was on Lindell so its pretty safe to assume he is nursing something and wants it to heal

He was also playing with Honka, which we can now speculate was probably more of an effort to limit Lindell's icetime than Hitchcock searching for some magic winning combination.

 

[Sanf]

Here's some food for thought for people who think it's all Marjamäki's fault...

Pretty much sums up my opinion about it too...

I see that this generation does have bit more career oriented thinking with their decision. But even in this generation we have bunch of players like Rantanen, Aho and Granlund who has been pretty much always available. (And Rantanen didn´t get traumatized even by being exra forward at the start of his first tournament. )

I don´t have any preference on who wins in SC playoffs, but would love Koivu in this tournament. To show example. Wishful thinking probably....

 

[Eye of Ra]

best case scenario...

Mikael Granlund - Koivu - Rantanen
Teuvo - Aho - Pulju
Filppula - Lehtära - Kapanen
Haapala - Kossila - Vesalainen

Vatanen - Nuutivaara
Lepistö - Honka
Pokka-Heiskanen-Ohtamaa

 

[jalperi]

best case scenario...

Mikael Granlund - Koivu - Rantanen
Teuvo - Aho - Pulju
Filppula - Lehtära - Kapanen
Haapala - Kossila - Vesalainen

Vatanen - Nuutivaara
Lepistö - Honka
Pokka-Heiskanen-Ohtamaa

Pulju is declined already. Vatanen injured? And some says that Rantanen and Haapala are playing with minor injuries. I hope that Kossila will be on next week camp but dont believe it before i see it. Rajala and Jokiharju played well yesyerday and Riikola was best defenceman.

 

[FiLe]

But even in this generation we have bunch of players like Rantanen, Aho and Granlund who has been pretty much always available.

Not to mention Barkov.

And thanks to the Stars fans for weighing in on Lindell. If your assessment is true, then it looks like the list of NHLers who seemingly declined because of the coach is getting even shorter...

---

As for potential additions, Marjamäki teased us earlier about some names coming from overseas. I doubt it's a real bombshell, so someone like Kossila might fit the bill. Additionally, I wonder if it is any way possible to strike out a similar deal with Nashville as they did with Pulju and Edmonton last year. As in, they give us Eeli, but retain an option to recall him at a moment's notice.

The schedule is rather curious, because we will be having two back-to-back EHTs on subsequent weeks because of the Olympics. So I'd say we'll be much wiser on how the team is shaping up this time on Monday, when they release the final camp roster. I expect that said list will contain every available name minus those in the Liiga finals and those who may be eliminated after the first round.

 

[Finnswiss]

Pulju is declined already. Vatanen injured? And some says that Rantanen and Haapala are playing with minor injuries. I hope that Kossila will be on next week camp but dont believe it before i see it. Rajala and Jokiharju played well yesyerday and Riikola was best defenceman.

I couldn't watch the game but what the Finns have to improve definitely is the PP. They could play 16 minutes PP and didn't score once while the Czechs scored on 2 of 3 PPS. I have no idea if the PK of the Finns was bad or the Czechs PP so good.

 

[Lindgren]

TPS Turku's season is now over. Has there been any speculation at all about Juolevi making it on the roster?

 

[FiLe]

TPS Turku's season is now over. Has there been any speculation at all about Juolevi making it on the roster?

It's possible, I suppose. We'll see on Monday if he even gets a camp invite. What has been technically confirmed is that Heiskanen will join from the opposing HIFK's side - and he's also pretty much a lock to make the final team.

I'd say that in the best possible defense we can have, there is little room for Juolevi. A lot depends if Lepistö and Ohtamaa want to play. In such a case, we don't have much need for another lefty puckmover. Kivistö may also take preference and get the remaining slot in that niche. More generally, we also have Pokka on the camp and Marjamäki is said to be looking to add Hakanpää from the Liiga finals. Hietanen could also still be joining. Last but not least, I suppose there's still a chance of getting Nutivaara from the NHL playoffs.

So... lots of moving parts here still. But in the worst case scenario where we only have the ones that are presently more or less confirmed, as in Honka, Kivistö, Pokka, Heiskanen and Hakanpää - then sure, I don't see why Juolevi couldn't make even the final team.

 

[Mestaruus]

It's possible, I suppose. We'll see on Monday if he even gets a camp invite. What has been technically confirmed is that Heiskanen will join from the opposing HIFK's side - and he's also pretty much a lock to make the final team.

I'd say that in the best possible defense we can have, there is little room for Juolevi. A lot depends if Lepistö and Ohtamaa want to play. In such a case, we don't have much need for another lefty puckmover. Kivistö may also take preference and get the remaining slot in that niche. More generally, we also have Pokka on the camp and Marjamäki is said to be looking to add Hakanpää from the Liiga finals. Hietanen could also still be joining. Last but not least, I suppose there's still a chance of getting Nutivaara from the NHL playoffs.

So... lot's of moving parts here still. But in the worst case scenario where we only have the ones that are presently more or less confirmed, as in Honka, Kivistö, Pokka, Heiskanen and Hakanpää - then sure, I don't see why Juolevi couldn't make even the final team.

I really want Juolevi to be there even if he's slightly worse than some other veterans.

I guess it's safe to say that if Lepistö isn't in the next camp he won't be in the team at all and same goes to Hietanen. Chances seem really slim for getting them now. Jokipakka had good last games when he finished his KHL season. He didn't get a chance at the Olympics so I would like to see him in WHC, but is this 1.5-2 months too long of a break for him I wonder.

 

[FiLe]

I really want Juolevi to be there even if he's slightly worse than some other veterans.

Logically, if Marjamäki is giving Jokiharju a look, I don't see why he shouldn't extend the same courtesy to Juolevi.

But I guess it all boils down to who's joining the final camp roster. I agree that all our Euro regulars save for Ohtamaa should be on the list, or we can write 'em off.

 

[Mestaruus]

Logically, if Marjamäki is giving Jokiharju a look, I don't see why he shouldn't extend the same courtesy to Juolevi.

But I guess it all boils down to who's joining the final camp roster. I agree that all our Euro regulars save for Ohtamaa should be on the list, or we can write 'em off.

That's true. Pokka should belong to that group with Juolevi and Jokiharju as well but we know that Marjamäki and Lehtinen will most likely choose him because of that Kärppä background.

I got pretty low expectations on Pokka and I don't think he has much more upside to show that hasn't been seen already. I really think that against top countries in the actual tournament Pokka will have trouble in getting out of the own end like it was in the World Cup. He looked so out of place there.

So I'd personally pick Juolevi over Pokka. Simply because Juolevi can't be much behind of Pokka after Juolevi's improvement in the defensive end this season and Juolevi has way more upside at this point, which makes him more interesting to watch.

 

[FiLe]

I got pretty low expectations on Pokka and I don't think he has much more upside to show that hasn't been seen already. I really think that against top countries in the actual tournament Pokka will have trouble in getting out of the own end like it was in the World Cup. He looked so out of place there.

Let's not forget that besides the World Cup, Pokka has already been to a WHC too. In fact, his performance in the 2016 WHC was probably what made Marjamäki comfortable enough to pick him to the World Cup squad.

So if Pokka ends up getting preference, it's not just because of his Kärppä background, but because he has already shown he can handle the WHC level. I'm not saying he did miracles the last time, but his defensively solid +5 performance should be proof enough that he's useful in a WHC, even if a tournament on small ice vs. top shelf NHLers was perhaps a step too soon.

 

[Mestaruus]

Let's not forget that besides the World Cup, Pokka has already been to a WHC too. In fact, his performance in the 2016 WHC was probably what made Marjamäki comfortable enough to pick him to the World Cup squad.

So if Pokka ends up getting preference, it's not just because of his Kärppä background, but because he has already shown he can handle the WHC level. I'm not saying he did miracles the last time, but his defensively solid +5 performance should be proof enough that he's useful in a WHC, even if a tournament on small ice vs. top shelf NHLers was perhaps a step too soon.

That's a good point. I admit I semi-forgot about him being there and doing ok job.

 

[Lindgren]

It's possible, I suppose. We'll see on Monday if he even gets a camp invite. What has been technically confirmed is that Heiskanen will join from the opposing HIFK's side - and he's also pretty much a lock to make the final team.

I'd say that in the best possible defense we can have, there is little room for Juolevi. A lot depends if Lepistö and Ohtamaa want to play. In such a case, we don't have much need for another lefty puckmover. Kivistö may also take preference and get the remaining slot in that niche. More generally, we also have Pokka on the camp and Marjamäki is said to be looking to add Hakanpää from the Liiga finals. Hietanen could also still be joining. Last but not least, I suppose there's still a chance of getting Nutivaara from the NHL playoffs.

So... lots of moving parts here still. But in the worst case scenario where we only have the ones that are presently more or less confirmed, as in Honka, Kivistö, Pokka, Heiskanen and Hakanpää - then sure, I don't see why Juolevi couldn't make even the final team.

Great, informative post. Thanks (and to the other responders as well).

 

[welshrangersfan]

Aho and TT finally confirmed - Leijonat Twitter

 

[behemolari]

any news from koivu & granlund?