Team Finland WC 2023

[Svedu]

"because Rantanen is a rich man's Hartikainen. In other words, as players they occupy too similar a niche, and it hurts the line.

A more glaring issue is the lack of a 2C. Sallinen is not a total disaster, but he leaves a lot to be desired in the role. At the very minimum, we need Suomela back in the lineup. And if he's out of the tournament (and - of course - if we don't land Hintz), then Jalonen should seriously consider moving Rantanen down the middle and build a line around him - as he's not a necessary piece to complement the ex-Ufa duo."

Very well written, thank you. I'm not sure I want to see Rantanen with Kakko nor Hartikainen, especially the latter. Too much of good and strong puck holders, could do more damage in their "Own" line.

And even if Hintz and Heiskanen are bigger names I believe Tolvanen could add something very valuable for this team. I have a feeling he would benefit of playing with players like Rantanen, Kakko and Härski because he's lethal with his shot but he's by no means a creator.
Kakko is able to create a lot but the next step in his career is to start producing. I'm just waiting for him to figure things out and develop his shot and perhaps his skating. He's clearly very talented and I can still feel he has some unleashed potential.

This will be interesting no matter what.

 

[THE JAM]

MiG is really missed - with him another GMG would be pretty much assured.

But let us see, perhaps it's still doable even without him ..

 

[THE JAM]

And I think you guys do not need to be reminded about this: when top teams meet more than once during the tournament, it's almost guaranteed that the winner of preliminary round game does not win their game 2 - if they meet again in the medal round

 

[Mestaruus]

Loads of good opportunities to score just a step off. Some claim playing these weak teams last before the qf will set us up for failure but I argue the contrary. Perfect opportunity for Kakko, Kapanen and Rantsu to shake the monkey of their back. We will be ready for the qf. I'm 'confident.

I don't like that we don't get a stronger opponent in the last 4 games. Denmark is easily the best of these teams remaining and Denmark may be able to battle for a QF spot with Germany. So I'm glad that the very last opponent is indeed Denmark. Denmark might also have something on line in that game vs Finland so they might offer a good match.

 

[Mestaruus]

Some of my takes on the Sweden game:

1. I really liked what I saw in this game. The game was really fun and entertaining to watch, but as Jalonen said, the PP needs some work.

2. No Kakko & Manninen shooting in the shootout is craziness and I'm sure that Jalonen knew that. Jalonen is just having some fun. He didn't care about that extra point, because it might not matter much. We had already lost 3 points in the USA loss and because we had lost 4 points by the time the shootout began vs Sweden that meant that we would most likely be 2nd or 3rd in the group regardless if we take the extra point vs Sweden or not. So group win wasn't very realistic after the Sweden game went to OT. So this means most likely that Finland will face one of Canada, Czech or Switzerland. So it's "pick your poison" kind of thing, because they are all tough teams so doesn't really matter which Finland faces. So because of this Jalonen maybe found it better to test some of these players how well they would do in the shoot out now in the WHC with some pressure on them.

3. Fired up Kapanen was so fun to watch. I read the word "jumalauta" from his lips in the first period when his first shot didn't go in. That was a good sign and more good stuff indeed came from him. I'm glad to see that he seems to be a steady performer in the WHC tournament and on the big ice. In the NHL sometimes he seems more like a streaky guy or on/off type player. He was clearly the best player of Finland in this game and Larmi for me was the second best. I loved Rantanen & Hartikainen as well.

 

[THE JAM]

Canada always does not care about winning their round robin group and usually loses some points here and there. In fact, they recently managed to get to the QF with only 8 points and still got to that GWG vs Winland / Northern Estonia,

CAN lost a point today vs SVK and was really close to giving away 2 pts.
And then Southern Estonia / LAT won their game vs CZE.
If you think that the Riga group results will be predictable, think again

 

[Isola]

Kraken are out, but I don't think Tolvanen is coming, which means Merelä will get registered. Didn't Jalonen mention that he will only take a "superstar" mid-tournament? Not sure if Tolvanen is that.

 

[mattihp]

Kraken are out, but I don't think Tolvanen is coming, which means Merelä will get registered. Didn't Jalonen mention that he will only take a "superstar" mid-tournament? Not sure if Tolvanen is that.

His shot is a superstar, so maybe that is enough

Kidding aside, had he been a center he would be a given.

 

[Mestaruus]

Kraken are out, but I don't think Tolvanen is coming, which means Merelä will get registered. Didn't Jalonen mention that he will only take a "superstar" mid-tournament? Not sure if Tolvanen is that.

By looking at the basic stats, 8 points in 14 playoff games is well done, but the result is also +/- minus 4. If I had to guess it's 50/50 if they invite him. I'd take Tolvanen, but I also think that it's very likely that Jalonen registers Merelä. Tolvanen could even say no to the invitation and/or there's a possibility that he has a small injury. Maybe that tips the scale to over 50% that he won't be coming.

Overall I'd say we've been once again unlucky with the amount of NHL players we've got. We got 3 NHL teams loaded with Finns in the playoffs and with 2 of them (Florida & Dallas) the marginals were small on whether they'd get eliminated or not, but good luck to those guys and I hope that Vegas won't be the one raising the cup when the season is over. Vegas also did Manninen pretty dirty, but I'm sure Manninen appreciated the one way contract money (750k $) that he made in the AHL, so I doubt that he's very bitter.

 

[mattihp]

Matinpalo has been a positive surprise for me. I thought he would make more mistakes, but pretty solid. Like Mikkola did he might get a call from the NHL.

Rantanen.. Well. I had hoped for more production. He has the feeling of a general out there, but doesn't produce like one and does not dictate what happens on the ice. Maybe tired, not optimal line for him or just bad luck.

 

[FiLe]

Merelä registered. Means no Tolvanen.

Also, Suomela back in lineup in today's practice, replacing Sallinen. Lineup unchanged otherwise.

 

[mattihp]

Merelä registered. Means no Tolvanen.

Also, Suomela back in lineup in today's practice, replacing Sallinen. Lineup unchanged otherwise.

Hopefully Merelä gets a shot in the lineup in the game anyway. Not impressed with anyone on F really. The lines should be shaken up somehow. Next game will be mostly shooting practice against a compact team. Some opportunity to build cycling games to make space but it won't magically make that first line work.

 

[FiLe]

Next game will be mostly shooting practice against a compact team. Some opportunity to build cycling games to make space but it won't magically make that first line work.

This is my concern, more or less. The present lineup has some potential problems in it, but it's unlikely they'll get exposed before the QF - and by then it might be too late to do anything about it.

Then again, it's hard to say if the next few games would provide any relevant data about the superiority of any different kind of lineup. Well, maybe if the present lineup seriously struggles scoring against an opponent that shouldn't be that difficult. (Which is not unheard of.)

 

[illone84]

Matinpalo has been a positive surprise for me. I thought he would make more mistakes, but pretty solid. Like Mikkola did he might get a call from the NHL.

Rantanen.. Well. I had hoped for more production. He has the feeling of a general out there, but doesn't produce like one and does not dictate what happens on the ice. Maybe tired, not optimal line for him or just bad luck.

I thought I read that Matinpalo is already in negotiation or at least confident he'll make the move over to NA? Or maybe it's just wishful thinking?

 

[illone84]

OT but cool to hear Käärijä playing at the American Airlines Center.

 

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

Mods pls delete my post.

How many clear shots Rantanen alone missed in the Sweden game? 5-6?
Why a passes to Kakko are always 0.5 secs too late, and a pass from Kakko 0.5 secs too early?
Why there are no agreed default tactics when Härski grinds his butt toward a teammate who is never there?
Why Jalonen puts his slowest goons to a situation where the speed should be obvious priority?

And on and on.

I see a team that is intrinsically dysfunctional. Line chances won't help that much. There are not enough time. Following games won't help when guys likely will only learn bad habits...

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

How many clear shots Rantanen alone missed in the Sweden game? 5-6?
Why a passes to Kakko are always 0.5 secs too late, and a pass from Kakko 0.5 secs too early?
Why there are no agreed default tactics when Härski grinds his butt toward a teammate who is never there?
Why Jalonen puts his slowest goons to a situation where the speed should be obvious priority?

And on and on.

I see a team that is intrinsically dysfunctional. Line chances won't help that much. There are not enough time. Following games won't help when guys likely will only learn bad habits...

Seems that Jalonen's track record speaks for itself. But feel free to cherry pick a round-robin game.

 

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

Seems that Jalonen's track record speaks for itself. But feel free to cherry pick a round-robin game.

Don't worry. I fly our team's flag. Only happens to be so I've serious difficulties to believe to this year's edition. Intra-tournament team development, internal bonding, and playbook development is dramatically late with current edition.

Cherry picking is not an issue. Actual playing is.

And for note, Jukka Jalonen is practically enshrined in my small flat (full of books and stuff). Feeling isn't just there, and I cannot overcome that feeling unless the team does it first.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Don't worry. I fly our team's flag. Only happens to be so I've serious difficulties to believe to this year's edition. Intra-tournament team development, internal bonding, and playbook development is dramatically late with current edition.

Cherry picking is not an issue. Actual playing is.

And for note, Jukka Jalonen is practically enshrined in my small flat (full of books and stuff). Feeling isn't just there, and I cannot overcome that feeling unless the team does it first.

Funny. I lived in Finland just as the modern run was starting and he and Erkka Westerlund were coming to prominence. People used to joke about "Finnish optimism" (pessimism).

 

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

Funny. I lived in Finland just as the modern run was starting and he and Erkka Westerlund were coming to prominence. People used to joke about "Finnish optimism" (pessimism).

Yeah. I hope I'll be wrong, but I cannot (so far) evade that gut feeling on The Team. Feeling was there already pre-tournament, and I can't exactly point it out, but there is off-hockey factor(s) in it too.

Damn good hockey players, that said. Take easy, and hope best.

 

[illone84]

Yeah. I hope I'll be wrong, but I cannot (so far) evade that gut feeling on The Team. Feeling was there already pre-tournament, and I can't exactly point it out, but there is off-hockey factor(s) in it too.

Damn good hockey players, that said. Take easy, and hope best.

If Dallas beats Vegas Finland will have a minimum of 8 players competing for the Stanley cup and 10 at best. That would be the best achievement in Finnish hockey history *especially if Dallas wins the cup (imho) not to mention Hintz potentially winning playoff mvp. Much more significant than another skoda cup gold with watered down competition. So if Finland loses, no biggie for me. Just sitting back and enjoying.... As some other poster mentioned, kind of getting boring after playing in the finals 3 times in a row. Ps. We desperately need a bloody best on best already.

 

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

If Dallas beats Vegas Finland will have a minimum of 8 players competing for the Stanley cup and 10 at best. That would be the best achievement in Finnish hockey history *especially if Dallas wins the cup (imho) not to mention Hintz potentially winning playoff mvp. Much more significant than another skoda cup gold with watered down competition. So if Finland loses, no biggie for me. Just sitting back and enjoying.... As some other poster mentioned, kind of getting boring after playing in the finals 3 times in a row. Ps. We desperately need a bloody best on best already.

Wise words. You're absolute right. However, it's Leijonat that is lacking all those players.

Not other way around. Emotionally, from a fellow Finn's perspective.

 

[illone84]

Wise words. You're absolute right. However, it's Leijonat that is lacking all those players.

Not other way around. Emotionally, from a fellow Finn's perspective.

Of course I want Finland to win but like others have said, Jalonen's luck will eventually run out as it's a game of inches after all. But just looking at the big picture, a SCF with Dallas Vs Florida/Carolina will guarantee lots of Finns winning the cup and maybe even a Finnish captain. What's more is that finally these guys are getting respect and recognition. Personally, I'd rather have Finns battling in the Stanley cup final than in a Skoda cup championship game. We need more Finns to win in the nhl and we will be well prepared for a best on best when it finally comes around.

 

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

@illone84 As I said you're absolutely right. In longer run NHL SC success will be much more important for the Finnish Hockey's future developments than yet another successful Jalonen project. There is that old proverb "Don't fix what isn't broken", but in case of Jalonen, The game of Hockey just don't work so that you can assign eternally those same guys, counting on their past successes, even if the concept is good and functional, without fixing anything. I fear that Jukka Jalonen blinded himself someway because of his continuous streak of success. Maybe it became too "easy" for him. Self pronounced 'difficulties' in forming the roster this season, indicate that he has lost some of his vision clarity. He is ultimate Fixer, who seems to forget that 2023 international hockey landscape isn't 2019 international hockey landscape. A Fix is not enough as his (and Team Finland's) dynastic urges a fix isn't just enough. The system needs plan for a continuous overhaul. That is what is lacking now, a longer term vision.

And it honestly shows on ice.

 

[illone84]

@illone84 As I said you're absolutely right. In longer run NHL SC success will be much more important for the Finnish Hockey's future developments than yet another successful Jalonen project. There is that old proverb "Don't fix what isn't broken", but in case of Jalonen, The game of Hockey just don't work so that you can assign eternally those same guys, counting on their past successes, even if the concept is good and functional, without fixing anything. I fear that Jukka Jalonen blinded himself someway because of his continuous streak of success. Maybe it became too "easy" for him. Self pronounced 'difficulties' in forming the roster this season, indicate that he has lost some of his vision clarity. He is ultimate Fixer, who seems to forget that 2023 international hockey landscape isn't 2019 international hockey landscape. A Fix is not enough as his (and Team Finland's) dynastic urges a fix isn't just enough. The system needs plan for a continuous overhaul. That is what is lacking now, a longer term vision.

And it honestly shows on ice.

True. Ageed. Anyways, will be interesting to see who is the coach if we ever do get to watch another best on best.