WC: Team Finland 2025

[FiLe]

So it's possible to get all 3, Mikkola + Barky + Lundy?

From where I stand, I can't call it an impossibility.

Although, I must say that I find the idea of Dallas vs. Florida/Carolina SCF rather juicy.

 

[Svedu]

I both believe and hope Stars and Panthers win their series.

I don't think Pennanen even deserves a player like Barkov in this tournament and if they lose I want him to rest before next year and the olympics. He's one of those few 6-7 guys who is and should be completely certain in the final olympic roster. Not just that, he's the leader. Not Aho, not Hintz.
Why then... Because I'm not sure in Pennanen whatsoever. I don't wanna see him get saved by one of the best players in the NHL.
He could've picked Koivunen and a couple of others but he chose not to. Therefor, it's up to him to show he had some kind of a vision quite frankly. Like Filé said before, it could bite his ass later on. His selections that is. And I'm all up for it if they don't step up. Because so far he hasn't impressed as the head coach whatsoever.
Imagine Jalonen giving his assistant the responsibility to do all the talking during a crucial timeout. That there was nothing but outrageous and just raised the concern regarding Pennanens leadership if anything.

Mikkola is one of our 3 certain D's in the olympics as well. And I've seen some games against the Leafs where he takes a lot of defensive responsibility and checks hard in the corners with good defensive awareness. He should rest as well.
Lundell on the other hand is younger and there is a case that he can earn a higher spot as a C in the end. And if the coach has the balls to split all the centers apart, Barkov, Aho, Lundell and Hintz. I don't wanna see any of them playing as a winger in the olympics. Rather create four really competitive lines. That is what will give us a medal in the end and keep the guys somewhat fresh during a long tournament.
In 4nations Hintz and Aho were complete ghosts. Now when Hintz are meshing with his Finnish teammates it's clear they should be our second line. Which makes Aho and Lundell bottom6 right now. And I will actually get furious if Pennanen or another coach keeps that stupid shit up with having Aho or Hintz as wingers. That there, us having bigger center depth than any other European nation should be used to our strength, period.

 

[FiLe]

Imagine Jalonen giving his assistant the responsibility to do all the talking during a crucial timeout.

There is no need to imagine this. Coaches who have done this under Jalonen include names such as Risto Dufva, Petri Matikainen, Mikko Manner... and Antti Pennanen. The list is not necessarily exhaustive.

I'm not saying that people can't be upset with Pennanen, but when stuff that is nothing out of the ordinary is seen as outrageous, you can't help but wonder how much of the hate is irrational. I'm also not saying that we couldn't be having a better coach, but I'm afraid we'll be stuck with Pennanen for the next season, at least unless this squad he selected somehow fails to make it to the QF. And I see the chances of that happening rather low.

 

[Svedu]

There is no need to imagine this. Coaches who have done this under Jalonen include names such as Risto Dufva, Petri Matikainen, Mikko Manner... and Antti Pennanen. The list is not necessarily exhaustive.

I'm not saying that people can't be upset with Pennanen, but when stuff that is nothing out of the ordinary is seen as outrageous, you can't help but wonder how much of the hate is irrational. I'm also not saying that we couldn't be having a better coach, but I'm afraid we'll be stuck with Pennanen for the next season, at least unless this squad he selected somehow fails to make it to the QF. And I see the chances of that happening rather low.

I´m not sure about Pennanen no matter what. QF is just to low of a standard for a hockey nation like Finland. Being competitive is a must. Fine if we lose against one of the better teams in the QF with a single or two goals. You are right about that. But if we get destroyed by any team, say Canada. Or if we lose against Slovakia? The concern and questioning should be growing a whole lot and it will be valid.

Watching his stint as u20 coach wasn't that impressive either when analyzing the rosters. He had Meriläinen, Blomqvist and Jatkola as goalies. Lundell, Topi Niemelä, Heinola, Oliver Kapanen, Aatu Räty, Koivunen, Kemell, Lambert, Mäenpää, Kokkonen, Hatakka, S. Helenius, Hirvonen, Puhakka, Petman, Pyyhtiä, Pärssinen. Perhaps not the best but still potential to win a gold.

 

[FiLe]

The concern and questioning should be growing a whole lot and it will be valid.

Sure. There were even valid reasons to question a bunch of stuff Jalonen did. Nobody's perfect, and sometimes these non-perfect people make mistakes while hiring coaches. And Pennanen may yet turn out to be such a mistake. But as of right now, I see a ton of hot air in the present knives out mentality against him. As they say, the stupid concentrates in Jouko.

 

[Svedu]

Sure. There were even valid reasons to question a bunch of stuff Jalonen did. Nobody's perfect, and sometimes these non-perfect people make mistakes while hiring coaches. And Pennanen may yet turn out to be such a mistake. But as of right now, I see a ton of hot air in the present knives out mentality against him. As they say, the stupid concentrates in Jouko.

Yep. Let's see... If he can keep it somewhat clean against Canada ( meaning a 2-3 goal loss)- or beat Slovakia and later on have a above decent team performance in the QF no matter if it's a loss or a win I won't be that mad. But below those expectations and everyone should be dissatisfied. No matter what roster, he and the GM chose them and could not provide Finland with better players. So at the end of the day they carry the responsibility for both selections and performances. I at least will not accept a "Look at the roster" explanation to a complete failure this tournament. Because then, he and the GM shouldn't even be leading our guys.

 

[FiLe]

If he can keep it somewhat clean against Canada- or beat Slovakia and later on have a above decent team performance in the QF no matter if it's a loss or a win I won't be that mad.

If you want to be mad at him if he fails to clear this bar, sure, go ahead. But being mad at him in advance as if you expect him to fail doesn't come across as very rational.

By the way, I kind of hate our schedule here - playing vs. Canada the next Monday at 9PM and then Slovakia the day after at 5PM. That's not a reason to not expect a win from the latter game, but it does put us at a disadvantage, especially since you'd ideally want to use Saros in both games.

 

[Sanf]

Have I been impressed about Pennanen. No. But...

Sweden did run as over in the start. The pace, physicality and ability to make excellent passes on that pace. The individual skill difference showed. It was quite pretty even. I honestly think that we even have that many players that can respond to that. And those are not available. Koivunen still bit sluggish (I have to rely on Penguins fan on this) would not made much difference. Later in the game I felt that our grinding department got bit more to the game.

I probably would have selected Koivunen. Maybe Nyman. But I can´t really see them as saviours. And what usually irritates me on this that if in 3 to 5 years these guys do not pan out as many hopes. But are playing in high level in Europe. They become the "why the hell is this guy on the team" players. It just always is the next guy.

 

[Sanf]

If you want to be mad at him if he fails to clear this bar, sure, go ahead. But being mad at him in advance as if you expect him to fail doesn't come across as very rational.

By the way, I kind of hate our schedule here - playing vs. Canada the next Monday at 9PM and then Slovakia the day after at 5PM. That's not a reason to not expect a win from the latter game, but it does put us at a disadvantage, especially since you'd ideally want to use Saros in both games.

Did not look that far. Also as it seemes that we aren´t adding any players before that and our rotation is not as balanced as it was in Jalonens time. We are playing quite top heavy. Tricky double game indeed.

 

[Svedu]

If you want to be mad at him if he fails to clear this bar, sure, go ahead. But being mad at him in advance as if you expect him to fail doesn't come across as very rational.

By the way, I kind of hate our schedule here - playing vs. Canada the next Monday at 9PM and then Slovakia the day after at 5PM. That's not a reason to not expect a win from the latter game, but it does put us at a disadvantage, especially since you'd ideally want to use Saros in both games.

Being rational when it comes to Leijonat and failure is being too optimistic lol. Jokes aside, I actually feel it's very rational. Why then, because of his selections. If he can't stir it up with questionable selections then it's on him, simple as that. Us being utterly poor against both Austria and France is another one. In all honesty, those games could've ended with 1-2 points for us and I'm not exaggerating either nor a controversial take after having witnessed both games. Instead we now got 5, I mean there is a case to be made that we've already been lucky rather than the opposite. Especially if you've seen the actual games and performances. It's not only the results so far that should concern us, it's the actual impression this team is giving us.
So if we've already been lucky? That luck will end sooner or later and especially when we will face tougher opponents.

Yeah, we actually do have the worst schedule. Playing Sweden the second day when they were rested and later on Canada the second day after a crucial game against Slovakia.
I want to see Saros against Slovakia and Annunen against Canada. Larmi goes down too quickly and makes himself even smaller than he has to be. I don't trust him after his latest performance for Leijonat. I'm uncertain of Annunen but I do think he should get the opportunity if we beat Slovakia and get Saros a needed rest. Also because of Salo nor Saros impressed me during Swedens second goal. I think it was actually somewhat cheap by Saros to let that in.

I've watched an interview with Markstörm after the game and he said Globen is hella hot and he sweats more than usual here. Therefor there could be a case made to rest Saros if we win the first game because he needs to be fresh in the playoffs and also because Larmi was straight up bad last game.

 

[Mestaruus]

From where I stand, I can't call it an impossibility.

Although, I must say that I find the idea of Dallas vs. Florida/Carolina SCF rather juicy.

Rather Carolina eliminate Toronto at semis. Let the hockey gods show their grace for our WHC team.

 

[Mestaruus]

By the way, I kind of hate our schedule here - playing vs. Canada the next Monday at 9PM and then Slovakia the day after at 5PM. That's not a reason to not expect a win from the latter game, but it does put us at a disadvantage, especially since you'd ideally want to use Saros in both games.

You forgot to say that Slovakia has a day off before they face Finland. It does suck and increases Slovakia's chance for an upset. We are still the favorites in that one.

 

[Svedu]

Have I been impressed about Pennanen. No. But...

Sweden did run as over in the start. The pace, physicality and ability to make excellent passes on that pace. The individual skill difference showed. It was quite pretty even. I honestly think that we even have that many players that can respond to that. And those are not available. Koivunen still bit sluggish (I have to rely on Penguins fan on this) would not made much difference. Later in the game I felt that our grinding department got bit more to the game.

I probably would have selected Koivunen. Maybe Nyman. But I can´t really see them as saviours. And what usually irritates me on this that if in 3 to 5 years these guys do not pan out as many hopes. But are playing in high level in Europe. They become the "why the hell is this guy on the team" players. It just always is the next guy.

Nyman is a sure bet NHLer if he can stay healthy. Especially for the Kraken. He's a top9 and will play in PP for sure. Question is if it's the second or first. Him and Kakko share the strength. Kakko a better puckhandler, Nyman with a better shot. When you watch Nyman it's clear he really wants to score as well. He has that mindset. But just like any other finn (or 98% of them) he needs to work on his skating a whole lot.

If Nyman does pan out I see him being a similar player to Laine but perhaps a bit even 5v5. But not on Kakkos level when he's good. That's why I would include Nyman. Actually he reminds me a bit of Tolvanen with the biggest difference being a lot stronger and bigger. But I do believe Finland will need his package a whole lot further on and we will be thankful having a player with size and strength and size in a wing. Because now it's basically only Rantanen currently.

 

[Svedu]

Rather Carolina eliminates Toronto at semis. Let the hockey gods show their grace for our WHC team.

Why are you certain of Leafs beating the Panthers?

 

[Svedu]

You forgot to say that Slovakia has a day off before they face Finland. It does suck and increases Slovakia's chance for an upset. We are still the favorites in that one.

We are not favorites in my books. They played just as well against Austria as we did. And we were quite lucky against France. They tried Hlavaj in goal later on and he has been looking good and big in net.
Dvorsky should be just as good as TT by now. Regenda is just as good as Lammikko and a bit similar style. Perhaps Tolvanen is better than Chromiak but let's during the upcoming game. Sykora probably better two-way winger than anyone in our team as well? Honzek has more potential than anyone in our roster but it's uncertain where he stands now after injuries and so on.

 

[FiLe]

Why then, because of his selections. If he can't stir it up with questionable selections then it's on him, simple as that.

I hope you don't use "selections" as plural here, as the way I see it, the only questionable thing he did was overlooking Koivunen. But I tend to agree with Sanf that he likely wouldn't have been a rainmaker all by himself.

What this squad desperately needs is a top-six caliber center. All the other pieces are there. So, yeah, even one out of Barkov and Lundell would be a godsend.

There were no line changes in today's practice, so Pennanen keeps hoping that Lammikko could rise to the occasion between the NHL guys. While I sort of get it, I must say I'd like to see what Pärssinen could do in the spot. There are probably no magic bullets, but I recall how Jalonen stubbornly used Rantanen with Manninen and Hartikainen two years ago when everybody and and their uncle could see that they've no chemistry, and when the king himself finally conceded that point, it was too late.

As an aside, if Dallas finishes Winnipeg in the next game, it would make Kupari available. He's been a healthy scratch ever since being cleared to play three weeks ago, and has last dressed for a game in late March - so, yeah - but if Pennanen is desperate enough for an NHL caliber center, he could be an option. At least he wouldn't be gassed.

 

[Svedu]

I hope you don't use "selections" as plural here, as the way I see it, the only questionable thing he did was overlooking Koivunen. But I tend to agree with Sanf that he likely wouldn't have been a rainmaker all by himself.

What this squad desperately needs is a top-six caliber center. All the other pieces are there. So, yeah, even one out of Barkov and Lundell would be a godsend.

There were no line changes in today's practice, so Pennanen keeps hoping that Lammikko could rise to the occasion between the NHL guys. While I sort of get it, I must say I'd like to see what Pärssinen could do in the spot. There are probably no magic bullets, but I recall how Jalonen stubbornly used Rantanen with Manninen and Hartikainen two years ago when everybody and and their uncle could see that they've no chemistry, and when the king himself finally conceded that point, it was too late.

As an aside, if Dallas finishes Winnipeg in the next game, it would make Kupari available. He's been a healthy scratch ever since being cleared to play three weeks ago, and has last dressed for a game in late March - so, yeah - but if Pennanen is desperate enough for an NHL caliber center, he could be an option. At least he wouldn't be gassed.

Disagreed regarding Koivunen. Even if he's sluggish like Tolvanen and smallish. He would've easily benched Puistola and- or Erholtz making the team better no matter what.
It would have given a better depth to our top6 imo. Having him and TT driving each line and having Koivunen in our second PP. The swap between lines and especially Lammikko and Pärssinen would've been less noticeable as well.
Because now the first line desperately needs TT to be there if Tolvanen is supposed to get fed at times. Lammikko will not be the one doing that as you've mentioned already. I also think Hämeenaho would've benefitted by having Koivunen instead of Puistola.

I also get the subtile impression of you overrating Pärssinen a bit. I'm not as convinced yet. Not meaning Lammikko is better. More like Pärssinen is not "Him".

Kupari is a great option and he could jump in and bu every center role, everything from the first to the fourth. I would love this addition because he would be hungry to rove something. As a youngster he was very capable of dangling and skating. Since then he has grown a whole lot and actually become more defensively aware physical with maintaining his speed. Perhaps lost a bit of a offensive touch or not having developed that at the highest level. But I would personally love him between a slower sniper like Tolvanen and say TT orange another one.

 

[FiLe]

Disagreed regarding Koivunen. Even if he's sluggish like Tolvanen and smallish. He would've easily benched Puistola and- or Erholtz making the team better no matter what.

Agreed, more like. Please note that I did call the snub questionable. Yes, he might have been some kind of upgrade over Puistola and Erholtz, at least on PP. But IMO we have good enough wingers to medal even without him. The biggest thing that would make a difference right now is someone to replace Lammikko on the top line.

 

[Sanf]

I hope you don't use "selections" as plural here, as the way I see it, the only questionable thing he did was overlooking Koivunen. But I tend to agree with Sanf that he likely wouldn't have been a rainmaker all by himself.

What this squad desperately needs is a top-six caliber center. All the other pieces are there. So, yeah, even one out of Barkov and Lundell would be a godsend.

There were no line changes in today's practice, so Pennanen keeps hoping that Lammikko could rise to the occasion between the NHL guys. While I sort of get it, I must say I'd like to see what Pärssinen could do in the spot. There are probably no magic bullets, but I recall how Jalonen stubbornly used Rantanen with Manninen and Hartikainen two years ago when everybody and and their uncle could see that they've no chemistry, and when the king himself finally conceded that point, it was too late.

As an aside, if Dallas finishes Winnipeg in the next game, it would make Kupari available. He's been a healthy scratch ever since being cleared to play three weeks ago, and has last dressed for a game in late March - so, yeah - but if Pennanen is desperate enough for an NHL caliber center, he could be an option. At least he wouldn't be gassed.

Kupari could be option. His contract ends though. And after dropping out of lineup I´m not sure if he has one (almost) ready contract like Pärssinen and Matinpalo had. Though on other hand mayyy be possibility to get more market value. But players rarely do that.

No matter how you think of the centers its hard to get anything optimal. I would stamp Järvinen. He was good on the pre games. Hoping that he finds the chemistry. But then again I understand that it is almost as hopeful thinking as hoping for AHL saviour. Lot of question marks around Järvinen too.

 

[FiLe]

I also get the subtile impression of you overrating Pärssinen a bit.

I'm not. Like I said, there are no magic bullets. But faceoffs aside, I think he's the best center of the present group - which is, admittedly, not saying much. I'd rather have someone from the outside than promote him to 1C. But aside from waiting for something to drop onto our laps, I see trying him in the role the most viable option to improve the lineup.

Kupari could be option. His contract ends though.

Nope. Has a year left.

 

[Svedu]

Agreed, more like. Please note that I did call the snub questionable. Yes, he might have been some kind of upgrade over Puistola and Erholtz, at least on PP. But IMO we have good enough wingers to medal even without him. The biggest thing that would make a difference right now is someone to replace Lammikko on the top line.

Understood. Agreed about PP. I also like Erholtz speed as a fourth. But as a top6 I don't think Puistola and that line does it. An regarding good enough wingers to medal, hmm... I cannot agree when comparing to say 4-5 other teams. Therefor even more questionable decision not inviting Koivunen and Nyman.

Regarding Lammikko yes. Ideally Jets get outclassed soon and Kupari gets an invite. Lammikko surpassed to the third and Kupari as a first. Someone able bringing up the puck and still also cover Tolvanens lack of speed in a game.

 

[FiLe]

Therefor even more questionable decision not inviting Koivunen and Nyman.

By the time Nyman was available, he would have used one of the two open spots. And I see nothing questionable in not using one of them on a player who was 0+1 and -5 in the AHL playoffs when there was and still is a chance of picking up a bona fide established NHLer for both of those spots.

 

[Sanf]

Nope. Has a year left.

I went from memory. But does he really. I checked from news and he signed two year deal in 2023. Similarly Elite seems to show his contract ending this year?

 

[FiLe]

I went from memory. But does he really. I checked from news and he signed two year deal in 2023. Similarly Elite seems to show his contract ending this year?

Okay, I checked three different sites - and one of them says it ends the next year, one says it ends now, and the third said it ended a year ago. I've no idea what to believe any more.

 

[Sanf]

Okay, I checked three different sites - and one of them says it ends the next year, one says it ends now, and the third said it ended a year ago. I've no idea what to believe any more.

Puckpedia and CapSpace seems to have his contract ending this year and that is sort of their craft so I assume that is correct. NHLFinns which is neat site without anything too fancy has it ending 26, but the focus of that site has been on floorball lately I feel.