Mhm. I was simply listing the WHC-worthy options we have for the role, not in any way insinuating they all have a realistic shot. I also think that both Honka and Thomson won't even get camp invites, especially if RR and Jokiharju - or even one of them - say yes. Because then even a deep-rooted Jalonen familiar like Hietanen could be in jeopardy.
WC: Team Finland 2022 roster talk
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mattihp
Registered User
I guess any returnee from the olympic team would be very difficult to cut, but there are some potential overseas additions that might spring up a debate.
For example, would Armia be an upgrade over Mäenalanen/Pakarinen/Anttila? Or what if Dallas narrowly misses the playoffs and Kiviranta wants to join? And if Jalonen decides to give Maccelli a look and he ends up distinguishing himself, it could cause a musical chairs effect that also has ramifications in the bottom-six.
I don't claim to have answers for these questions, but they are something to consider before calling a player a lock, especially those that fall into a niche we have no shortage of candidates for.
For example, would Armia be an upgrade over Mäenalanen/Pakarinen/Anttila? Or what if Dallas narrowly misses the playoffs and Kiviranta wants to join? And if Jalonen decides to give Maccelli a look and he ends up distinguishing himself, it could cause a musical chairs effect that also has ramifications in the bottom-six.
I don't claim to have answers for these questions, but they are something to consider before calling a player a lock, especially those that fall into a niche we have no shortage of candidates for.
mattihp
Registered User
Except for the Granlund - Manninen - Hartikainen most other returnees would be easier to cut than at least the pagan and Anttila.
karhukissa
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2019
- 1,910
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Levtchi is a top-6 guy, so it depends who comes from the NHL. And since "Ufa-line" is pretty much locked..
It would be good for him though, he's from Tampere.
I was one of the guys hyping Maccelli some time ago but back then I expected MaG+Manninen+Hartikainen not to come, so I'm having second thoughts about Maccelli now. Maccelli should join the camp though in case we get really unlucky and miss out on most of our NHL forwards.
What you said about Armia and Kiviranta there is true and those are some really tough decisions. Donskoi is another example. Seattle uses Donskoi more as a defensive player compared to his Colorado days. I like Kiviranta a lot but sadly he isn't getting to play games now and he would be the easy one to be left out of these 3. Then again Kiviranta is one of Jalonen's guy from 2019 miracle gold team, so who knows.
Let's not forget Komarov from KHL playoffs either. Another bottom-6/grinder type. It would be really hard to leave him out of the team if he wants to come. He is competing about the same spots as Pakarinen for example.
All 12/12 forwards of the Olympic final are still candidates to be in the team. How do you cut any of them? It would be a shame to cut someone like Harri Pesonen as well. My guess is that all 12 of these players might be selections for the team but perhaps 1-2 of them might not be in the active line up.
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My prediction of our final roster:
Granlund - Manninen - Hartikainen
Pesonen - Filppula - Pakarinen
Aaltonen - Nättinen - Armia
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Anttila
Tyrväinen, Ojamäki
Lehtonen - Jokiharju
Ohtamaa - Vatanen
Pokka - Kaski
Friman - Kemiläinen
Olkinuora - Tuohimaa - Heljanko
No real surprises. Almost the same as the olympic team. Armia and Jokiharju are the realistic options from the NHL. We should battle for the gold but in the end Canada probably ruins it.
Granlund - Manninen - Hartikainen
Pesonen - Filppula - Pakarinen
Aaltonen - Nättinen - Armia
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Anttila
Tyrväinen, Ojamäki
Lehtonen - Jokiharju
Ohtamaa - Vatanen
Pokka - Kaski
Friman - Kemiläinen
Olkinuora - Tuohimaa - Heljanko
No real surprises. Almost the same as the olympic team. Armia and Jokiharju are the realistic options from the NHL. We should battle for the gold but in the end Canada probably ruins it.
The only thing I'm gonna point out with this otherwise quite realistic projection is Kaski making it over Hietanen. Won't happen, especially since we don't need Kaski for any special teams either. Heck, in this selection alone he'd be like the fifth guy in line to a blueline a PP unit.
If we go really critical about it and see who we simply won't be replacing. Then it looks like this.
MaG-Manninen-Hartikainen
x-x-x
x-Filppula-x
Mäenalanen-Björninen-Anttila
So below I'll name the players who don't appear in the above list. All of them would be really hard to cut from the
active line up, but if we get lucky and get some players like Laine/Hintz/Barkov coming we have to cut someone I guess:
M.Aaltonen - Nättinen - Komarov
-These 3 appeared as a unit in the Olympic final. It is really hard to cut any of them from the active line up.
They played a fantastic tournament but since I'm going critical on them it can be said that M.Aaltonen's production in the offensive end got a bit worse the longer the tournament went. In his defense the games probably got tougher as well so that's understandable. That's the only fault I can find of M.Aaltonen. They all played well defensively.
-Nättinen is the easiest one to cut. If Komarov is motivated to join again, it would be really hard to cut him from the team. I think that we can't cut him and for me I'd actually have to prioritize taking Komarov into the team over Armia/Donskoi for example, even though he is worse player than them. Komarov beats them in the leadership department and as an important locker room guy and he was one of the guys who was the heart of the Olympic team so to speak.
Pakarinen
-Similar case to Komarow. Maybe we just don't cut him (from the active line up). Komarov and Pakarinen are the hardest cases for me.
H.Pesonen
-He had a great tournament but we can get offensively a better player than him. I think that he will be a selection to the team but he might not be in the active line up if we indeed get lucky and get some of our bigger star players from the NHL. Or he might play some games untill the playoff exit guys come if J.Jalonen is willing to wait.
MaG-Manninen-Hartikainen
Laine - Barkov/Aho/Hintz/Mi.Granlund - Rantanen/Teräväinen/Kapanen/Puljujärvi
x-Filppula-Komarov/Pakarinen
Mäenalanen-Björninen-Anttila
Second line looks funny yes but my point is that we can easily get a full line of players if J.Jalonen & Lehtinen have the patience to wait for NHL first round exit teams. I hope that they do. Bigger need is for defenders but I hope that they get 2 star caliber NHL forwards as well. That will make our PP look completely different. It could be Laine-Aho-Teräväinen or Laine-Barkov-Rantanen. In such case we wouldn't look completely inferior to someone like Canada roster wise. I expect Canada to send a good roster. Such team that Canada will be the gold favorite of the tournament, not Finland. It's North-American rink so that helps Canadians as well. So I hope that J.Jalonen & Lehtinen got some patience to keep few slots open for forwards as well along with some defenders.
I'm also aware that Barkov and Laine for example don't have contracts but it's a home tournament at Tampere and they wouldn't miss this one out if there was any chance for them to join the team.
MaG-Manninen-Hartikainen
x-x-x
x-Filppula-x
Mäenalanen-Björninen-Anttila
So below I'll name the players who don't appear in the above list. All of them would be really hard to cut from the
active line up, but if we get lucky and get some players like Laine/Hintz/Barkov coming we have to cut someone I guess:
M.Aaltonen - Nättinen - Komarov
-These 3 appeared as a unit in the Olympic final. It is really hard to cut any of them from the active line up.
They played a fantastic tournament but since I'm going critical on them it can be said that M.Aaltonen's production in the offensive end got a bit worse the longer the tournament went. In his defense the games probably got tougher as well so that's understandable. That's the only fault I can find of M.Aaltonen. They all played well defensively.
-Nättinen is the easiest one to cut. If Komarov is motivated to join again, it would be really hard to cut him from the team. I think that we can't cut him and for me I'd actually have to prioritize taking Komarov into the team over Armia/Donskoi for example, even though he is worse player than them. Komarov beats them in the leadership department and as an important locker room guy and he was one of the guys who was the heart of the Olympic team so to speak.
Pakarinen
-Similar case to Komarow. Maybe we just don't cut him (from the active line up). Komarov and Pakarinen are the hardest cases for me.
H.Pesonen
-He had a great tournament but we can get offensively a better player than him. I think that he will be a selection to the team but he might not be in the active line up if we indeed get lucky and get some of our bigger star players from the NHL. Or he might play some games untill the playoff exit guys come if J.Jalonen is willing to wait.
MaG-Manninen-Hartikainen
Laine - Barkov/Aho/Hintz/Mi.Granlund - Rantanen/Teräväinen/Kapanen/Puljujärvi
x-Filppula-Komarov/Pakarinen
Mäenalanen-Björninen-Anttila
Second line looks funny yes but my point is that we can easily get a full line of players if J.Jalonen & Lehtinen have the patience to wait for NHL first round exit teams. I hope that they do. Bigger need is for defenders but I hope that they get 2 star caliber NHL forwards as well. That will make our PP look completely different. It could be Laine-Aho-Teräväinen or Laine-Barkov-Rantanen. In such case we wouldn't look completely inferior to someone like Canada roster wise. I expect Canada to send a good roster. Such team that Canada will be the gold favorite of the tournament, not Finland. It's North-American rink so that helps Canadians as well. So I hope that J.Jalonen & Lehtinen got some patience to keep few slots open for forwards as well along with some defenders.
I'm also aware that Barkov and Laine for example don't have contracts but it's a home tournament at Tampere and they wouldn't miss this one out if there was any chance for them to join the team.
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Artorius Horus T
sincerety
You guys really think that Laine contract thing will exclude him from the worlds???
- the fact is Blue Jackets are gonna miss the play-offs, that makes him auto-available
1) its in his hometown, 2) NHL players couldn't represent their countries at the Olympics,
Two huge reasons why he will be there, 99,99%.
The chance to win gold for team Finland in his hometown...
i think goes ahead of everything.
- the fact is Blue Jackets are gonna miss the play-offs, that makes him auto-available
1) its in his hometown, 2) NHL players couldn't represent their countries at the Olympics,
Two huge reasons why he will be there, 99,99%.
The chance to win gold for team Finland in his hometown...
i think goes ahead of everything.
Barkov has a contract that makes him 12M a season and runs deep into the ongoing decade. Just FYI.
Regarding Laine... we'll see.
I think so too. Hopefully he stays healthy, because even a small injury could tip the scale of him coming or not to NO because he has contract negotiations ahead of him as well. Two factors could be too much is what I mean.
The Laine situation really is a bit more complex than you guys make it seem. No matter what he'll do here and what kind of contract he signs, it may largely define his career for many years to come. There are tons of intangibles to unpack here; it's hardly as straightforward as it appears. Does he like it in Columbus? Or does he wish to try the free agency next year and look for an even bigger payday or maybe sign with a contender? Heck, it could be that Laine himself doesn't know yet. But he has a lot to ponder and this tournament could be nothing but an additional complication.
Of course, I don't have a line inside his head any more than the rest of you, so I guess it's also possible that he's not really thinking all that far ahead. Could be he's like, "It's hockey in my hometown, and I make 7.5M next season no matter what, so YOLO."
But yeah, there are lots of things that may or may not affect his decision-making. So I'd treat it as more like a 50-50 thing than "99.99% certainty". Maybe he'll show, maybe he won't, but figuring it's almost a given is far too wishful and simplistic thinking.
Of course, I don't have a line inside his head any more than the rest of you, so I guess it's also possible that he's not really thinking all that far ahead. Could be he's like, "It's hockey in my hometown, and I make 7.5M next season no matter what, so YOLO."
But yeah, there are lots of things that may or may not affect his decision-making. So I'd treat it as more like a 50-50 thing than "99.99% certainty". Maybe he'll show, maybe he won't, but figuring it's almost a given is far too wishful and simplistic thinking.
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I'll say 60-70% that he comes vs 30-40% that he won't. It's indeed just guessing at this point. Laine isn't poor money wise and one day he could regret if he didn't use his only chance during his career to join the WHC squad in his home town with a familiar coach. He's probably a good buddy with Ristolainen as well from Turku summer training and Ristolainen has shown interest in joining this WHC tournament. So that could be one positive about having Ristolainen in the team. Laine and Risto might even say something about it on phone between each other. So if no minor injuries happen, I'm feeling that it is likely that he will be there.
He might value this tournament higher than best on best Olympics even. We don't know but it's possible.
If Armia wants to come, he is in. Simple decision in my book. He s looking much better and would be a great addition.
Likewise, I watch Jokiharju a couple of games recently and came away super impressed.
I'd like give Ristolainen his shot if he wants to come.
Also if Dallas go out the defence would be unreal. Heiskenen, Lindell, Hakanpaa, Hintz are easy choices.
Imagine running an 8 with heiskenen, lindell, lehtonen, Hakanpaa, ohtamaa, ristolainen, vatanen, Jokiharju. That would be epic world cup defence.
Kiviranta I might leave out.
I would love to see maccelli get a shot at camp. Not right out the gate but he is so creative and fun to watch.
Laine if he came would be epic. But this is big contract time.
If Laine doesn't go. I could see a spot open for Ruotsilainen. He s flying it right now and gives a center option if someone goes down.
I think all the goalies are out of contract but I think something will happen quick with kahkonen. Either way sateri should be available and olkinoura.
I think Laine will end up not coming but I think Dallas won't make playoffs and will come.
Sateri
Olkinoura
Heiskenen Hakanpaa
Lindell Jokiharju
Lehtonen Ristolainen
Ohtamaa Vatanen
Macelli Hintz Armia
Granlund Manninen Hartikanen
Ruotsilainen Filppula Pakirainen
Maenelaenen Bjorninen Komarov
I really really hope Macelli gets a shot. He would do damage with Hintz. And Armia is the perfect compliment of size and speed for that line.
If Laine goes just put him on top line and Macelli waits little longer.
Likewise, I watch Jokiharju a couple of games recently and came away super impressed.
I'd like give Ristolainen his shot if he wants to come.
Also if Dallas go out the defence would be unreal. Heiskenen, Lindell, Hakanpaa, Hintz are easy choices.
Imagine running an 8 with heiskenen, lindell, lehtonen, Hakanpaa, ohtamaa, ristolainen, vatanen, Jokiharju. That would be epic world cup defence.
Kiviranta I might leave out.
I would love to see maccelli get a shot at camp. Not right out the gate but he is so creative and fun to watch.
Laine if he came would be epic. But this is big contract time.
If Laine doesn't go. I could see a spot open for Ruotsilainen. He s flying it right now and gives a center option if someone goes down.
I think all the goalies are out of contract but I think something will happen quick with kahkonen. Either way sateri should be available and olkinoura.
I think Laine will end up not coming but I think Dallas won't make playoffs and will come.
Sateri
Olkinoura
Heiskenen Hakanpaa
Lindell Jokiharju
Lehtonen Ristolainen
Ohtamaa Vatanen
Macelli Hintz Armia
Granlund Manninen Hartikanen
Ruotsilainen Filppula Pakirainen
Maenelaenen Bjorninen Komarov
I really really hope Macelli gets a shot. He would do damage with Hintz. And Armia is the perfect compliment of size and speed for that line.
If Laine goes just put him on top line and Macelli waits little longer.
While speculating with any potential NHL additions, you guys are kinda overlooking the fact that apart from GMH, we do already have the potential makings of a very good scoring line, even if zero NHLers show up. I'm talking of Aaltonen-Ojamäki, the Vityaz duo.
Now, they were not exactly a force in Beijing, as Ojamäki ended up watching the games from the pressbox after the opener vs. Slovakia - but it was a highly unusual situation, not by any means his own fault. Rather, it was an unfortunate effect of some musical chairs caused by some COVID scares. A couple of forwards got sidelined, which opened a way into the lineup for Nättinen and Komarov, and they capitalized on those chances. Furthermore, the Olympics were a very short tournament - only six (or seven) games, and by the time all the players were cleared, the tournament was already at its half-way mark, and Jalonen did have four somewhat functional lines in his hands, even though they didn't feature all the players he likely had penciled in initially. And so he decided to play it safe and keep running with what he had rather than risk it for potentially higher rewards.
But now, it's a whole different situation. There's a month-long training camp before the WHC with whopping ten games they can use to iron out any kinks in the lineup. So without a doubt the Vityaz boys will get another chance at showing what they can do. Which may very well lead to a top-six of:
Granlund-Manninen-Hartikainen
X-Aaltonen-Ojamäki
The X here would be some suitably skilled player - perhaps some lone NHLer (Maccelli, maybe Donskoi, even Laine if the hockey gods smile), or perhaps some high-profile European (Pesonen, Rajala), or even some surprise addition from Liiga, like Levtchi.
Furthermore, while usually the finals in Liiga and other top Euro leagues have been tricky schedulewise, not this time. We likely know all the champions before the month is over, and there are still not one, but two complete EHT legs to be played, starting at April 28th. So Jalonen can even give some interesting players an additional look, unlike the past few years, when any additions from the Liiga finals made it straight into the final roster.
One last thing - let's not forget that Aaltonen was pretty good in the olympics even without his counterpart, so it's quite likely he takes preference over some not-so-established overseas hopeful, like Maccelli or Ruotsalainen, anyway.
Now, they were not exactly a force in Beijing, as Ojamäki ended up watching the games from the pressbox after the opener vs. Slovakia - but it was a highly unusual situation, not by any means his own fault. Rather, it was an unfortunate effect of some musical chairs caused by some COVID scares. A couple of forwards got sidelined, which opened a way into the lineup for Nättinen and Komarov, and they capitalized on those chances. Furthermore, the Olympics were a very short tournament - only six (or seven) games, and by the time all the players were cleared, the tournament was already at its half-way mark, and Jalonen did have four somewhat functional lines in his hands, even though they didn't feature all the players he likely had penciled in initially. And so he decided to play it safe and keep running with what he had rather than risk it for potentially higher rewards.
But now, it's a whole different situation. There's a month-long training camp before the WHC with whopping ten games they can use to iron out any kinks in the lineup. So without a doubt the Vityaz boys will get another chance at showing what they can do. Which may very well lead to a top-six of:
Granlund-Manninen-Hartikainen
X-Aaltonen-Ojamäki
The X here would be some suitably skilled player - perhaps some lone NHLer (Maccelli, maybe Donskoi, even Laine if the hockey gods smile), or perhaps some high-profile European (Pesonen, Rajala), or even some surprise addition from Liiga, like Levtchi.
Furthermore, while usually the finals in Liiga and other top Euro leagues have been tricky schedulewise, not this time. We likely know all the champions before the month is over, and there are still not one, but two complete EHT legs to be played, starting at April 28th. So Jalonen can even give some interesting players an additional look, unlike the past few years, when any additions from the Liiga finals made it straight into the final roster.
One last thing - let's not forget that Aaltonen was pretty good in the olympics even without his counterpart, so it's quite likely he takes preference over some not-so-established overseas hopeful, like Maccelli or Ruotsalainen, anyway.
JabbaJabba
Registered User
Jokiharju is basically confirmed to join the team Leijonat saamassa NHL:n peliaikahirmun MM-kotikisoihin
mattihp
Registered User
Buffalo fans can't stop writing him up, will be interesting to see his progress!
I really think with the right linemates Macelli would absolutely flourish. I'd pair him with some size and he would fit well with speed and for God sake scoring potential. I just really think the kid has got it. That's why I really hope he makes roster but I can see Jalonen not being of the same mind as me.
I actually would have added Aaltonen as an extra for starters. He was superb in the Olympics and the more I think about it would probably have him ahead of Ruotsilainen. However I'd have Ruotsilainen in squad at least.
I certainly get your point about ojamaki. In that one olympic game even though I don't think he had points himself, that line as whole was fantastic with him in it. I really wanted to get another look but once komarov sent the lad over the boards and got a penalty when he came back in that was it. You just can't leave out that entertainment value.
Hopefully few NHL star forwards appear. Those guys you mentioned know how to win, but it will be 1-0 hockey. Low scoring games, unless the opponents are really inferior to Finland. Canada on North-American sized rink loaded up with NHL players will most likely be there and the games against such teams don't always go like in 2019 WHC.
Personally I'm not even asking to get many star caliber forwards. It's very realistic that at least 2 of them would come after the 1st round of playoffs is done. Hopefully the door is kept open for a while. Jalonen & Lehtinen will probably check if some series will end fast (4-0/4-1) and if not they might lock up the team.
Realistically I think that Jalonen won't leave Aaltonen out. In my last post I suggested a line up without him but that was a critical view to free up as many slots as possible for possible NHL upgrades. Aaltonen was one of the best players for the first games of the Olympic tournament but his offensive production got a bit worse later on. He was solid defensively though.
Jalonen loved Maccelli few years ago in EHT. Maccelli was the only really young surprise pick for the EHT tournament in Finland/Karjala cup or what ever it's called and the tournament went pretty well for Maccelli. I see a camp invite happening if Arizona's AHL affiliate isn't doing some playoffs in the AHL. It won't be easy task for Maccelli to break into the team though with this good Olympic core we got and especially if we'll have more NHL forwards joining.
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