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U18: TEAM CANADA '22

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EichelFan15 said:
This ^

It seems as if @Pavel Buchnevich had made his mind up after the slow start and is unwilling to concede that he may have jumped the gun on his assessment now that the production caught up with what those of us who watch him were seeing in terms of domination.

His other points about size, skating, and defensive prowess are perfectly fair but to criticize his production at this point is baffling to say the least.
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Don’t revise history in bad faith.

I made no comment about this player until you brought a months old discussion into a discussion that had absolutely nothing to do with the post you quoted.

Your mission is to lie enough about what I’ve said to deceive a few who don’t read the discussion because I’ve made previous comments about your favorite player that deep down you knew you couldn’t actually defend against, so attack the messenger with bad faith arguments well after the fact.
 
ijuka said:
I'm curious about where you'd say he isn't producing? Since this is your so-called "truth". He scored 5 points in 2 games at u-20s, 5 points in 2 games at u-18s thus far. Last year, 14 points in 7 games at u-18s, same as McDavid while being half a year younger. This season, he plays on a godawful team. He has 100 points, over 30 points more than the #2 scorer on the team. His last 40 games, he scored 82 points.

In his first 20 games or so, this was a legitimate concern, but you're about half a year late with this take. Purely in terms of scoring, when we take teammates into account, his production's probably even more impressive than McDavid's, especially considering his goal-scoring.
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How about you read the full discussion and not comment until you’ve done so?
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Don’t revise history in bad faith.

I made no comment about this player until you brought a months old discussion into a discussion that had absolutely nothing to do with the post you quoted.

Your mission is to lie enough about what I’ve said to deceive a few who don’t read the discussion because I’ve made previous comments about your favorite player that deep down you knew you couldn’t actually defend against, so attack the messenger with bad faith arguments well after the fact.
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Timeline of events

You: Bedard isn't generational anymore after his slow start to the season

Others: He still looks generational if you watch him play but has had bad luck to start, bad teammates, coaching change, etc. Certainly looks generational at U20 level and body of work so far indicate that he could be, should have big second half to the season.

You: Doesn't matter, excuses aren't valid if you are supposed to be generational. 28 points in 25 games disqualifies you. Go compare that to McDavid's 16 year old season - that's what you need to be considered generational.

Bedard: Promptly goes and turns his slow start into arguably a better season than McDavid's 16 year old year while validating the "excuses" mentioned by those who watch and follow him closely.

Me: Looks like your Bedard takes were pretty awful

You: I was just telling the truth, you are all just mad because I hate your favourite player. You have to produce to be considered generational. Besides, it's about WAY more than just production and Bedard just doesn't have it.

It is hard to take anything you say seriously after this embarrassing display.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
How about you read the full discussion and not comment until you’ve done so?
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But I did. What do you mean, exactly? Even after that post you said:
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Where did I say his production still isn't enough?

I don't think he's generational either way. Just as I didn't think Hughes or Lafreniere or Wright were generational.

The point is that if you are going to be declaring a player generational, they cannot be missing the statistical production. Excuses cannot apply if someone is declared generational. That doesn't mean everyone is going to subjectively agree though that a player has generational talent.
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Other than that, I have no idea where I'm supposed to be looking. My reply's the same either way.

It is not an "excuse" that Bedard's team is weak - it's a fact. As I said, Bedard had over 30 more points than #2 on the team. McDavid was 3rd on his team in scoring.

Indeed, his size's a legitimate concern, that I share as well. But the production angle makes zero sense.
 
EichelFan15 said:
Timeline of events

You: Bedard isn't generational anymore after his slow start to the season

Others: He still looks generational if you watch him play but has had bad luck to start, bad teammates, coaching change, etc. Certainly looks generational at U20 level and body of work so far indicate that he could be, should have big second half to the season.

You: Doesn't matter, excuses aren't valid if you are supposed to be generational. 28 points in 25 games disqualifies you. Go compare that to McDavid's 16 year old season - that's what you need to be considered generational.

Bedard: Promptly goes and turns his slow start into arguably a better season than McDavid's 16 year old year while validating the "excuses" mentioned by those who watch and follow him closely.

Me: Looks like your Bedard takes were pretty awful

You: I was just telling the truth, you are all just mad because I hate your favourite player. You have to produce to be considered generational. Besides, it's about WAY more than just production and Bedard just doesn't have it.

It is hard to take anything you say seriously after this embarrassing display.
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Yeah, I think I’ve had enough of this. I’ll just choose not to view what you have to say from now on.
 
ijuka said:
But I did. What do you mean, exactly? Even after that post you said:

Other than that, I have no idea where I'm supposed to be looking. My reply's the same either way.

It is not an "excuse" that Bedard's team is weak - it's a fact. As I said, Bedard had over 30 more points than #2 on the team. McDavid was 3rd on his team in scoring.

Indeed, his size's a legitimate concern, that I share as well. But the production angle makes zero sense.
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Can you not read context? Nowhere did I say here or anywhere else anytime recently that his production wasn’t good enough. This guy thinks he can now better attack me for an argument he couldn’t put forth good points for months ago.

When everyone said months ago that his production wasn’t good enough I said excuses can’t be made on statistical production when you are considered generational. Now the player is playing better. It’s a myth that I claimed his current production isn’t good enough. That guy was arguing in bad faith.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Can you not read context? Nowhere did I say here or anywhere else anytime recently that his production wasn’t good enough. This guy thinks he can now better attack me for an argument he couldn’t put forth good points for months ago.

When everyone said months ago that his production wasn’t good enough I said excuses can’t be made on statistical production when you are considered generational. Now the player is playing better. It’s a myth that I claimed his current production isn’t good enough. That guy was arguing in bad faith.
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The bolded is the problem. Those of us who watch the games know that he was playing just as well at the beginning of the season but wasn’t getting rewarded. But when we mention it, stat watchers like you say it’s all excuses. Seems like maybe those “excuses” were legit after all, looking at how the season turned out.
 
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prongertheman9 said:
The bolded is the problem. Those of us who watch the games know that he was playing just as well at the beginning of the season but wasn’t getting rewarded. But when we mention it, stat watchers like you say it’s all excuses. Seems like maybe those “excuses” were legit after all, looking at how the season turned out.
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Did I ever say he wouldn’t pick up his production?

I made a philosophically-based argument about calling someone generational. That a player does or does not improve the production doesn’t really disprove the argument. It merely can be said to apply to a player at certain times or not, depending on what the production is. You are so obsessed with protecting your favorite player that you can’t even discuss this in good faith.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Did I ever say he wouldn’t pick up his production?

I made a philosophically-based argument about calling someone generational. That a player does or does not improve the production doesn’t really disprove the argument. It merely can be said to apply to a player at certain times or not, depending on what the production is. You are so obsessed with protecting your favorite player that you can’t even discuss this in good faith.
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Offering up this philosophical argument, based on a 1/3 of a season, while ignoring the larger body of work as well as important context that is being offered up by others disproves the notion of you having solid logic.

Show me something I have said about Bedard or otherwise that is untrue. It sounds like you’ve never been wrong about anything in your life and are willing to gaslight/belittle anyone who opposes you or questions your opinion.
 
Worst PK set up I have ever seen, I cannot understand why they are deliberately allowing open shooting opportunities without challenging the screen.

It would be amazing if the coach would actually promote any form of structure instead of just standing there looking stoic.
 
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This team generates zero pressure because of a combination of a complete inability to effectively check as a team and the worst passing I have seen from any Team Canada. They couldn’t even carry play against Germany.
 
In no universe do we deserve to be in this game. A few instances of individual skill are making up for a shocking lack of offensive chances or pressure.

And another offensive zone penalty.
 
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