Team Board Mock Draft

[Machinehead]

You’re still looking for an impact player with the 15th overall pick. I guess I like Raty and Svechkov - but I don’t see a real difference maker in either of them. Neither player is NHL ready either imo. Wallstedt’s ceiling is massive. If he’s available Drury should sprint to the podium.

"There really isn't a difference maker available so let's draft for the position that almost never makes a difference."

What were our options?

Stralman, for starters.

Or maybe just, you know, sign a better LHD? Do you want me to pull up free agency from 2013 and 2014? We were contending at the time, we could have been active in free agency.

We knew the defense we had was giving up 37 shots a game. We were ok with it.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, even if there isn't a sure thing available, the general idea that a goaltender will be that is pretty out there. Goalies can barely make a whole season without turning into a different player.

"Don't know if any of these meals will taste good, give me the mystery meat that could be literally anything."

 

[FIRE DRURY]

"There really isn't a difference maker available so let's draft for the position that almost never makes a difference."

Stralman, for starters.

Or maybe just, you know, sign a better LHD? Do you want me to pull up free agency from 2013 and 2014? We were contending at the time, we could have been active in free agency.

We knew the defense we had was giving up 37 shots a game. We were ok with it.

I was asking about internal options since my point with Wallstedt was having the luxury of replacing Shesty with someone on their ELC, instead of giving him a contract till his late 30’s. Or going towards the free agent route which you pay a premium for.

 

[Machinehead]

I was asking about internal options since my point with Wallstedt was having the luxury of replacing Shesty with someone on their ELC, instead of giving him a contract till his late 30’s. Or going towards the free agent route which you pay a premium for.

I mean, like I said, that aspect of it I can understand. Planning to move on from Shesty before he gets a big contract is good. But I still think you can just find that in UFA. There are at least ten backups in the league who could start, pretty much all the time, and they would be perfectly happy to do so for less than a premium. Let somebody else waste the pick.

I know the draft isn't great and it's throwing darts at a dartboard, but goalies are ALWAYS that. Bobrovsky went from the best goalie on the planet to garbage in a day, and he was established. Imagine what could happen to an 18 year old.

 

[UnSandvich]

To elaborate on my earlier post, I view it lol this: “Which player has the best likelihood, considering both potential & chances of reaching it, of outperforming their draft slot as a long-term option for us?”

And looking at the board, I think that’s gotta be Wallstedt.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I mean, like I said, that aspect of it I can understand. Planning to move on from Shesty before he gets a big contract is good. But I still think you can just find that in UFA. There are at least ten backups in the league who could start, pretty much all the time, and they would be perfectly happy to do so for less than a premium. Let somebody else waste the pick.

I know the draft isn't great and it's throwing darts at a dartboard, but goalies are ALWAYS that. Bobrovsky went from the best goalie on the planet to garbage in a day, and he was established. Imagine what could happen to an 18 year old.

I’d rather draft an 18 year old potential star goalie in our system than sign some decent goalie in free agency. I get you think all goalies are equal, for some stupid reason. But they’re not.

If you’re Drury and Wallstedt is available at 15, what do you do?

 

[Machinehead]

I’d rather draft an 18 year old potential star goalie in our system than sign some decent goalie in free agency. I get you think all goalies are equal, for some stupid reason. But they’re not.

If you’re Drury and Wallstedt is available at 15, what do you do?

I draft somebody who's not a goaltender, probably trading down.

I think all goalies are equal because...they basically are. The deviation between them is negligible, especially behind a good team. Star goaltenders don't add much value over decent ones, and whatever they do add is negated and more by the price they command.

Who are the star goaltenders that have won the Cup? Vasilevskiy on a team that wins with Georgiev in net? Jonathan Quick who's had two good regular seasons in his career? It doesn't work! The decent ones literally win more!

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I draft somebody who's not a goaltender, probably trading down.

I think all goalies are equal because...they basically are. The deviation between them is negligible, especially behind a good team. Star goaltenders don't add much value over decent ones, and whatever they do add is negated and more by the price they command.

Who are the star goaltenders that have won the Cup? Vasilevskiy on a team that wins with Georgiev in net? Jonathan Quick who's had two good regular seasons in his career? It doesn't work! The decent ones literally win more!

So you honestly believe TB would have the same success with Georgiev in net over Vasi? Did I read that right?

 

[Machinehead]

So you honestly believe TB would have the same success with Georgiev in net over Vasi? Did I read that right?

Yes. You read that right. They win the Cup last year with Georgiev.

You sound surprised. The 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019 Cup winners all won with backup-quality goaltenders. Among them, only Jordan Binnington even managed a .900 save percentage this past season.

Geogiev is a better goalie than Murray and the Lightning are better than the team Murray won two Cups on.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Is everyone being serious with picking a goalie or just picking him for the lolz?

 

[Machinehead]

Is everyone being serious with picking a goalie or just picking him for the lolz?

In a sane world, this would be satire.

 

[Machinehead]

Even if I give you Vasi (despite the fact that he plays for a top 5-10 team in NHL history) look at the rest of the Cup winners:

Cam Ward
J.S. Giguere
Chris Osgood
Marc-Andre FLOLry
Antti Niemi (More like anti-being good)
Tim Thomas
Jonathan Quick
Corey Crawford
Matt Murray (I can't even type this without laughing)
Jordan Binnington

Show me the evidence. Where do star goaltenders contribute to winning Cups in this era?

I see Corey Crawford, but his team won the Cup with a bad goalie, and Tim Thomas, a 32-year-old rookie off the scrap heap who was good for five years.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Even if I give you Vasi (despite the fact that he plays for a top 5-10 team in NHL history) look at the rest of the Cup winners:

Cam Ward
J.S. Giguere
Chris Osgood
Marc-Andre FLOLry
Antti Niemi (More like anti-being good)
Tim Thomas
Jonathan Quick
Corey Crawford
Matt Murray (I can't even type this without laughing)
Jordan Binnington

Show me the evidence. Where do star goaltenders contribute to winning Cups in this era?

I see Corey Crawford, but his team won the Cup with a bad goalie, and Tim Thomas, a 32-year-old rookie off the scrap heap who was good for five years.

I would trade down before I make this pick, for all the reasons you've mentioned.

But, Wallstedt is so head and shoulders above everybody else, it's absurd not to take him. He took over as an SHL starter this year as an 18-year old, and I'd rather bet on his (or Shesty's) trade value in a couple years than on any of the other names available.

There may literally only be three or four guys left that go in the first round in a stronger draft. Wallstedt's name would be mentioned as a top10 pick in any draft.

I also think this is mostly moot, because he isn't going to be there at 15OA.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Yes. You read that right. They win the Cup last year with Georgiev.

This is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read in my life.

You sound surprised. The 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019 Cup winners all won with backup-quality goaltenders. Among them, only Jordan Binnington even managed a .900 save percentage this past season.

Geogiev is a better goalie than Murray and the Lightning are better than the team Murray won two Cups on.

Flower suffered a concussion in the 2016 season and the team turned to Murray who went 9-2 with a 2GAA and a .930SV %. The following regular season he had a .923SV%.

Murray’s SV% in the 2016 playoffs was a .923% and in 2017 it was a .937%.

Wake me up when Georgiev comes close to outplaying Murray his first two years in the league.

 

[Machinehead]

This is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read in my life.



Flower suffered a concussion in the 2016 season and the team turned to Murray who went 9-2 with a 2GAA and a .930SV %. The following regular season he had a .923SV%.

Murray’s SV% in the 2016 playoffs was a .923% and in 2017 it was a .937%.

Wake me up when Georgiev comes close to outplaying Murray his first two years in the league.

So are you going to refute the point that mediocre goaltenders win most of the Cups or just point to Murray getting hot for a 40 game sample?

If his 23 game unbeaten streak happens during the playoffs, Andrew Hammond has a Cup. Goalies getting hot is meaningless.

If it's such an important position, why isn't it at least even? There are like two great goaltenders on this list. It's almost as if having a good one observably backfires.

 

[Machinehead]

I would trade down before I make this pick, for all the reasons you've mentioned.

But, Wallstedt is so head and shoulders above everybody else, it's absurd not to take him. He took over as an SHL starter this year as an 18-year old, and I'd rather bet on his (or Shesty's) trade value in a couple years than on any of the other names available.

There may literally only be three or four guys left that go in the first round in a stronger draft. Wallstedt's name would be mentioned as a top10 pick in any draft.

I also think this is mostly moot, because he isn't going to be there at 15OA.

I get that but the thing is...I don't care lol

If you gave me 23YO Lundqvist, I would send him back. I did it. It was boring and we lost.

Teams with great goaltenders win more regular season games than they should and it leads to bandaid roster building. "We'll just finish 8th and our goalie will get hot! Any year now!"

I'm actually relieved when Shestyorkin gives up untimely goals. More likelihood we'll get players that win.

 

[bl02]

Ranger scouts need to do their due diligence if three centers like Raty, Svehkov and Pinelli are around.
I understand the sentiment about drafting a goalie with the skill of Wallstedt but when the heck are we gonna Draft and develop a true two way center?

 

[Machinehead]

The only reason Vasilevskiy works is because Tampa reinvented making shit up to cheat the salary cap.

He carries a $9.5m AAV to face the 4th fewest quality chances in the league over the last five years.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

So are you going to refute the point that mediocre goaltenders win most of the Cups or just point to Murray getting hot for a 40 game sample?

If his 23 game unbeaten streak happens during the playoffs, Andrew Hammond has a Cup. Goalies getting hot is meaningless.

If it's such an important position, why isn't it at least even? There are like two great goaltenders on this list. It's almost as if having a good one observably backfires.

Holtby wasn’t a mediocre goalie during his prime, or the year Washington won the cup. Quick has had a very good career as well. Murray and Binnington are kind of anomalies because they won as rookies.

I get your point here. Great teams could win with good goaltending. Good teams with great goaltending (see: Lundqvists career) usually lose to those great teams in the playoffs. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take advantage of drafting a potentially great goalie if he falls in your lap with the 15th pick, especially since the other options there aren’t overly impressive prospects.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I get that but the thing is...I don't care lol

If you gave me 23YO Lundqvist, I would send him back. I did it. It was boring and we lost.

Teams with great goaltenders win more regular season games than they should and it leads to bandaid roster building. "We'll just finish 8th and our goalie will get hot! Any year now!"

I'm actually relieved when Shestyorkin gives up untimely goals. More likelihood we'll get players that win.

You don't need to build around him is the thing though. We probably wouldn't have any problems trading Shesty for better value than 15OA in this draft.

My money is on the same being true in a couple years for whichever of him or Wallstedt that fits our plans the least.

 

[Machinehead]

You don't need to build around him is the thing though. We probably wouldn't have any problems trading Shesty for better value than 15OA in this draft.

My money is on the same being true in a couple years for whichever of him or Wallstedt that fits our plans the least.

You don't need to but teams have never shown the ability to not get caught up in it.

 

[Machinehead]

Speaking of Vasi, watch him be the next one who needs surgery.

Brad Whoeverthef*** will get them into the playoffs.

 

[eco's bones]

So anyway now we know we’re just as good with Alex in goal as we are with Igor.

 

[Machinehead]

Holtby wasn’t a mediocre goalie during his prime, or the year Washington won the cup. Quick has had a very good career as well. Murray and Binnington are kind of anomalies because they won as rookies.

I get your point here. Great teams could win with good goaltending. Good teams with great goaltending (see: Lundqvists career) usually lose to those great teams in the playoffs. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take advantage of drafting a potentially great goalie if he falls in your lap with the 15th pick, especially since the other options there aren’t overly impressive prospects.

My personal diatribes aside, Raty was #1 in this draft at one point. I'm more intrigued by that than alarmed. Hockey is dumb and players fall in the draft for dumb reasons.

 

[Machinehead]

So anyway now we know we’re just as good with Alex in goal as we are with Igor.

I mean, this team had a long stretch (when they were actually good) where they were better with Talbot.

It's not that goalies don't do important work, it's that the replacement level is so high. There's 31 goalies. If there were 31 centers, Zibanejad would be a mediocre starter and Strome would get cups of coffee in the NHL when teams had injuries.

That's the quality of player that low-level starters and backups are. This fanbase thinks we can win a Cup with Zibanejad as 1C where the variance is massive, so you can't tell me we need a particularly good starting goaltender.