Taylor Hall For Adam Larsson V | 4,000+ Posts and Counting!

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

pretty much the opposite, you should be giving me your crystal ball if you think Larsson will be anything more than a top 4 dman on the Oilers.

Its enjoyable seeing everyone on the day the trade happened hate it to now saying it is a good trade, blah blah blah.

Curious to see this sub-forum blow up half way through the season when Larsson is just an ordinary top 4 dman and not living up to the "hope" that Chia has for him to be a top 2 dman.

As opposed to trotting out the same defense year in and year out and hope it works out?

How did that turn out last season?

 

[GMofOilers]

Im not even sure what people are still arguing lol.

 

[belair]

pretty much the opposite, you should be giving me your crystal ball if you think Larsson will be anything more than a top 4 dman on the Oilers.

Its enjoyable seeing everyone on the day the trade happened hate it to now saying it is a good trade, blah blah blah.

Curious to see this sub-forum blow up half way through the season when Larsson is just an ordinary top 4 dman and not living up to the "hope" that Chia has for him to be a top 2 dman.

Nothing about him says 'ordinary top 4 defenseman' though.

He's been a full time NHLer for two straight seasons and in those two seasons, he's been a top pairing defenseman. A very good one at that.

If he's struggles like you expect him to, he'd be taking a massive step backwards. That's your assumption.

 

[smackdaddy]

The problem people are having here is they equate good "Top 2" defenseman as those who score points, as if that's all a defenseman is supposed to do. We see this with Norris voting, and the polarizing Weber/Subban trade where Weber is the superior defenseman (you know, the one who stops goals from going in) but Subban is more popular because he rushes like a 4th forward. Ditto Karlsson where he sacrifices defensive play in order to pad stats.

Likely the same thought pattern is present here, where people think Larsson is some bottom pairing dud because he doesn't light the lamp. Many here are banking on the fact that because he was on a offensively challenged team, they we may see him "unleash" his offensive prowess on us.

Doubtful that's gonna happen and it's best you all come to grips with that. We're still in the hunt for an offensive defenseman. But what we have in Larsson is a top tier defenseman who stops goals from happening and anchors our defensive corp. This is a huge thing for the Oilers and something they haven't had since Pronger.

Larsson is gonna be an amazing addition so long as people stop equating good defenseman as goal scorers.

 

[MoonDragn]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but the guy at the Because Oilers blog did a great analysis on Larsson:

http://becauseoilers.blogspot.com/2016/07/oilers-right-hand-dman-search-concluded.html

 

[Cam98]

The problem people are having here is they equate good "Top 2" defenseman as those who score points, as if that's all a defenseman is supposed to do. We see this with Norris voting, and the polarizing Weber/Subban trade where Weber is the superior defenseman (you know, the one who stops goals from going in) but Subban is more popular because he rushes like a 4th forward. Ditto Karlsson where he sacrifices defensive play in order to pad stats.

Likely the same thought pattern is present here, where people think Larsson is some bottom pairing dud because he doesn't light the lamp. Many here are banking on the fact that because he was on a offensively challenged team, they we may see him "unleash" his offensive prowess on us.

Doubtful that's gonna happen and it's best you all come to grips with that. We're still in the hunt for an offensive defenseman. But what we have in Larsson is a top tier defenseman who stops goals from happening and anchors our defensive corp. This is a huge thing for the Oilers and something they haven't had since Pronger.

Larsson is gonna be an amazing addition so long as people stop equating good defenseman as goal scorers.

top end defenseman are players who do it all. Larsson can't do it all and is a reason he is considered top 4. Sure he can be amazing at stop goals and playing sound defensively, but he will still be classified as top 4, because top 2 which a lot people think Larsson is, are defenseman who can do it all, stop pucks, produce offensively, etc, and that was Pronger.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

pretty much the opposite, you should be giving me your crystal ball if you think Larsson will be anything more than a top 4 dman on the Oilers.

Its enjoyable seeing everyone on the day the trade happened hate it to now saying it is a good trade, blah blah blah.

Curious to see this sub-forum blow up half way through the season when Larsson is just an ordinary top 4 dman and not living up to the "hope" that Chia has for him to be a top 2 dman.

Well considering that he's played top pairing minutes against tough assignments and mostly in his own zone, I think he's a capable defenceman.

You however, continue to dodge this actual fact.

I'm not saying it was a good trade, but ffs, Larsson is not a bad player. The Oilers lost the trade but did fulfill a need.

You're blind if you think they did not do that. By your standards of a top pairing defenceman, guys like Brent Seabrook or Vlasic are not top defenceman either.

 

[slim2001]

Posted this in the Larsson thread.

Hall #24 for forwards
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2111219

Larsson #35 for defensemen
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2111223

I think Larsson moves up from #35 and by next year they are about equally ranked comparing forwards to defensemen.

 

[LaGu]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but the guy at the Because Oilers blog did a great analysis on Larsson:

http://becauseoilers.blogspot.com/2016/07/oilers-right-hand-dman-search-concluded.html

Yes, and it was critisized for leaving stuff out and not looking at the complete picture. Honestly this guy goes way to deep into analytics.

For example, "Larsson does not play PP". Why is that? He did during his first season, he did when he went to play for team Sweden. Why didn't he do it in NJ? Should that question be asked or is it easier for someone who has been fairly (to say the least) touchy when it comes to Hall just to say that since he only played 31 min of PP over the last two years he will not (cannot) play on the PP?

Severson is a good Dman and had a huge break-through in the beginning of last year. I love his play and I do think he will step up and play great next year. Despite that Larsson took over, and kept more importantly, that 1 RD place fairly easily. But again it is so easy to point fingers and diminish Larsson because Severson is likely to fill in very nicely on that 1st pair.

 

[Cam98]

Well considering that he's played top pairing minutes against tough assignments and mostly in his own zone, I think he's a capable defenceman.

You however, continue to dodge this actual fact.

I'm not saying it was a good trade, but ffs, Larsson is not a bad player. The Oilers lost the trade but did fulfill a need.

You're blind if you think they did not do that. By your standards of a top pairing defenceman, guys like Brent Seabrook or Vlasic are not top defenceman either.

Both seabrook and vlasic are significantly better dman than Larsson. By my standards i consider both top 2 because they "do it all" Larsson doesnt.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Both seabrook and vlasic are significantly better dman than Larsson. By my standards i consider both top 2 because they "do it all" Larsson doesnt.

Sweet let's go trade for them.

 

[LaGu]

Well considering that he's played top pairing minutes against tough assignments and mostly in his own zone, I think he's a capable defenceman.

You however, continue to dodge this actual fact.

I'm not saying it was a good trade, but ffs, Larsson is not a bad player. The Oilers lost the trade but did fulfill a need.

You're blind if you think they did not do that. By your standards of a top pairing defenceman, guys like Brent Seabrook or Vlasic are not top defenceman either.

Don't bother.

It is fairly telling and evident what some will be looking for (or rather ignoring) when they bring up one of this generation's best Dman as an example of what Larsson should be.

 

[oStealthKiller*]

Both seabrook and vlasic are significantly better dman than Larsson. By my standards i consider both top 2 because they "do it all" Larsson doesnt.

I think u are thinking of a number one and not a top 2.

 

[nabob]

top end defenseman are players who do it all. Larsson can't do it all and is a reason he is considered top 4. Sure he can be amazing at stop goals and playing sound defensively, but he will still be classified as top 4, because top 2 which a lot people think Larsson is, are defenseman who can do it all, stop pucks, produce offensively, etc, and that was Pronger.

GMofOikers asked why people are still arguing. Just read this quoted post. Apparently the only top 2 Dman is Pronger, and because Larsson isn't Probger it gives people who blindly hate the trade a lisence to spew crap like this. Hard to tell who is trolling hard and who is posting what they actually believe. Might as well be reading the main board.

 

[belair]

top end defenseman are players who do it all. Larsson can't do it all and is a reason he is considered top 4. Sure he can be amazing at stop goals and playing sound defensively, but he will still be classified as top 4, because top 2 which a lot people think Larsson is, are defenseman who can do it all, stop pucks, produce offensively, etc, and that was Pronger.

Classified by you.

I think you've got 'top two' mixed up with an 'elite number one' defensemen.

Larsson is a top pairing defenseman. He has been for the past two seasons.

 

[LaGu]

By the way, Larsson scored at a higher clip than both Seabrook and Vlasic in 14/15 despite being buried for almost half of the season.

He was around 70th in overall scoring for D with 62 GP. I have trouble sorting on the phone but I bet he was top 60 in PPG, and that is without playing on the PP.

He had a down year when it comes to offense in 15/16, he acknowledged it himself (both before and after being traded) and said he will work harder on it for this season. 30-40 pts is my bet if he stays healthy.

 

[Cam98]

Classified by you.

I think you've got 'top two' mixed up with an 'elite number one' defensemen.

Larsson is a top pairing defenseman. He has been for the past two seasons.

Playing top pair on a weak defensive team doesn't mean he is a true top 2 dman. We should all know this by now as so many oilers dman have played above their means.

 

[belair]

Playing top pair on a weak defensive team doesn't mean he is a true top 2 dman. We should all know this by now as so many oilers dman have played above their means.

The New Jersey Devils were a weak defensive team? News to me.

They gave up the 9th fewest goals in the entire league even though they missed the playoffs.

 

[czar99]

Im not even sure what people are still arguing lol.

Agreed. I Heard directly from people inside the dressing room that Taylor Hall was making everyone very tense and that Peter chirelli new he had to go if there was going to be a culture change, regardless of how good a player he is.

We took it in the bum a bit but the team as a whole is better.

Time to move on.

 

[rboomercat90]

Very different players.

Petry will never be that calming rock back there, but Larsson will likely never have the transitioning ability Petry has.

I wish we had both of them.

 

[bobbythebrain]

top end defenseman are players who do it all. Larsson can't do it all and is a reason he is considered top 4. Sure he can be amazing at stop goals and playing sound defensively, but he will still be classified as top 4, because top 2 which a lot people think Larsson is, are defenseman who can do it all, stop pucks, produce offensively, etc, and that was Pronger.

After all these posts about Larsson's usage you can't be serious? You must be looking to stir the pot. Or have you actually done any research or need to simply just scroll back a few pages and you will see.

Saying Larsson hasn't generated enough offense is like blaming Lander for not scoring enough goals on McDavid's line.

Larsson a #4 on Edm when he was a #2 in NJ? lol.

 

[rboomercat90]

I guess you missed us adding Lucic? It's amazing how Hall assisted on every goal from RNH, Eberle, McDavid, Draisaitl and even Puljujarvi last season all the way in Finland. We'll be lucky to score a goal next season.

I can't wait until we score more goals than last season and still hear people ***** and moan about how we don't have a "driver" for the 2nd line. We'll also have a better goal differential and more wins but the whining won't stop.

I expect this team to be significantly improved in the win column next year. I also expect to hear many ***** and moan about how much better than that we'd be if we still had Hall.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Playing top pair on a weak defensive team doesn't mean he is a true top 2 dman. We should all know this by now as so many oilers dman have played above their means.

He played the toughest minutes in the NHL. Out of the hundreds of dmen that are currently active, he was#1. And was a plus 15 to boot. Yes, he was more than played beyond what any dman his age should be...and he performed admirably. Being an Oilers fan you should know what this means

 

[rboomercat90]

I had never actually thought of it like this, but it makes complete sense. Also the more that Hall can be hooked to McDavid the more it benefits Hall as well as Orr financially. Could end up with a Kane and Toews situation where two star players have the same agent and they end up using that leverage to negotiate against the team as a pair and really hurt the cap structure in the future. Not that I think McDavid in any way is a selfish guy, 110% the opposite, but agents have a ton of power and influence these days. Especially when their name is Bobby Orr.

Are Kane and Toews both Orr clients? If they are then your point holds much more value than what's being discussed in this thread.

 

[nabob]

Are Kane and Toews both Orr clients? If they are then your point holds much more value than what's being discussed in this thread.

They both have the same agent is what I was getting at. Could have ended up with a similar type of situation where an agent has a lot of power over the team.