Taylor Hall For Adam Larsson V | 4,000+ Posts and Counting!

[SomeDudeOTI]

I was going to post that the fans here, myself included, are carrying a little more swag when it comes to the team. Don't know if it's the right term, but I can taste a change in the atmosphere, no matter what side of an opinion you're on.

Just a weird little 6th sense I get occasionally but very infrequently as well.

Just "feels" like a change is coming.

Real optimism born out of real change.
I think we're making the playoffs. *knock on wood*

 

[Bryanbryoil]

it's going to be fun seeing Hall play well in the Eastern conference while this Oilers team continues to struggle to stop goals, produce goals and of course win games. Adding Adam Larsson isn't enough for this team to make the next big push. We had our Adam Larsson a couple years ago with Petry and we still never went anywhere and I'd take Petry over Larsson any day.

I guess you missed us adding Lucic? It's amazing how Hall assisted on every goal from RNH, Eberle, McDavid, Draisaitl and even Puljujarvi last season all the way in Finland. We'll be lucky to score a goal next season.

I can't wait until we score more goals than last season and still hear people ***** and moan about how we don't have a "driver" for the 2nd line. We'll also have a better goal differential and more wins but the whining won't stop.

 

[oStealthKiller*]

I guess you missed us adding Lucic? It's amazing how Hall assisted on every goal from RNH, Eberle, McDavid, Draisaitl and even Puljujarvi last season all the way in Finland. We'll be lucky to score a goal next season.

I can't wait until we score more goals than last season and still hear people ***** and moan about how we don't have a "driver" for the 2nd line. We'll also have a better goal differential and more wins but the whining won't stop.

It's because people want to win on their terms, not just win. They imagined hall lifting the cup(s) and nothing we do will ever be good enough. It'll always be "but what if we still had hall."

 

[Stud Muffin]

I guess you missed us adding Lucic? It's amazing how Hall assisted on every goal from RNH, Eberle, McDavid, Draisaitl and even Puljujarvi last season all the way in Finland. We'll be lucky to score a goal next season.

I can't wait until we score more goals than last season and still hear people ***** and moan about how we don't have a "driver" for the 2nd line. We'll also have a better goal differential and more wins but the whining won't stop.

Another person to turn on Hall, suprise,surprise.

Larsson and Lucic will be very good and important players to this team but losing Hall who was our best player for years sucks.

With trading Hall it brings a cloud of uncertainty over the head of Draisaitl who knows how he's going to perform with Maroon/Puljujarvi. With the "driver" thing IMO Puljujarvi is the type of player who drives the play, so in the long run he's the guy who actually replaces Hall.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Another person to turn on Hall, suprise,surprise.

Larsson and Lucic will be very good and important players to this team but losing Hall who was our best player for years sucks.

With trading Hall it brings a cloud of uncertainty over the head of Draisaitl who knows how he's going to perform with Maroon/Puljujarvi. With the "driver" thing IMO Puljujarvi is the type of player who drives the play, so in the long run he's the guy who actually replaces Hall.

I haven't much cared for Hall the last 2 seasons so don't act as if I thought that he was the cats meow the day before he was trade and then thought that he was crap the second he was dealt.

We should be a better team, Lucic adds elements that we have lacked for eons in the top six. I'm not going to be missing Hall's play on the PP, that much I promise you.

 

[Tarus]

Real optimism born out of real change.
I think we're making the playoffs. *knock on wood*

They downgraded the offense, and added one non-star level defensive defenseman to arguably the worst defense in the NHL(the absolute worst playmaking/passing defense in the NHL at the very least, which they made no effort to address). Not sure why anyone would want to fall into the trap(yet again) of believing they'll be a playoff contender after a decade of watching the team fly way under even the most conservative predictions year after year.

A little pessimism in August makes for a lot less anguish in November when the team goes into it's inevitable funk on it's first extended road trip.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

They downgraded the offense, and added one non-star level defensive defenseman to arguably the worst defense in the NHL(the absolute worst playmaking/passing defense in the NHL at the very least, which they made no effort to address). Not sure why anyone would want to fall into the trap(yet again) of believing they'll be a playoff contender after a decade of watching the team fly way under even the most conservative predictions year after year.

A little pessimism in August makes for a lot less anguish in November when the team goes into it's inevitable funk on it's first extended road trip.

'15-16 Lucic + Larsson = 73 points
'14-15 Lucic + Larsson = 68 points

'15-16 Hall + Fayne = 72 points
'14-15 Hall + Fayne = 46 points

Yeah not really. By bumping Fayne to the 3rd pairing or better yet the PB and giving Larsson his minutes we'll add whatever the difference in offense between Hall and Looch would be.

Meanwhile we get an actual net front presence and an actual shut down defenseman that can also get the puck up ice. We are a better team now than we were last season and that's not even including the fact that McDavid will be one year older and better.

 

[Canovin]

Hall gone is a blow to our 5 on 5 no doubt. Hall and McDavid were the only 2 drivers.

With that being said, Hall getting traded is an upgrade to our PP. Hall and RNH passing back and forth behind the net is cringe worthy. Lucic, Pou, Maroon are all net presence. All 3 adds element that our skilled players need and that's to deter and create space.

 

[syz]

Hall gone is a blow to our 5 on 5 no doubt. Hall and McDavid were the only 2 drivers.

With that being said, Hall getting traded is an upgrade to our PP. Hall and RNH passing back and forth behind the net is cringe worthy. Lucic, Pou, Maroon are all net presence. All 3 adds element that our skilled players need and that's to deter and create space.

All 3 are worthless until the team finds a defenseman who can get a puck to the net.

 

[Canovin]

All 3 are worthless until the team finds a defenseman who can get a puck to the net.

D aren't the only ones on the PP. Forwards can put pucks on net as well.

Last season Pou was injured. Maroon was effective in his time here. Next season we have Lucic, Maroon and Pou all healthy. Blaming everything on not having an offensive D is an excuse. We needed net presence guys just as bad.

 

[LaGu]

They downgraded the offense, and added one non-star level defensive defenseman to arguably the worst defense in the NHL(the absolute worst playmaking/passing defense in the NHL at the very least, which they made no effort to address). Not sure why anyone would want to fall into the trap(yet again) of believing they'll be a playoff contender after a decade of watching the team fly way under even the most conservative predictions year after year.

A little pessimism in August makes for a lot less anguish in November when the team goes into it's inevitable funk on it's first extended road trip.

It's been an on-going discussion for years now that we need to add quality top4 D as to push the other players down a notch so that they are not always in over their heads. Last year was a start with Sekera as #2-#3 and this year they followed up with a good #2. It is really not just about adding 1/6 to the defense, it is about adding a piece which moves the others to positions that they probably are more suited for.

Sekera goes from being #1 to #3, Fayne from #2 to #4, already there we will see massive improvement especially since they will not be leaned on as heavily when it comes to the tough match-ups. I am also very comfortable with almost any 3rd pairing anchored by Davidson. I also liked what I saw from Reinhart at the end of last season and I have not problem with him jumping in if there are any injuries, moving the rest of the pack up a notch.

No one expects Klefbom - Larsson to be a Josi - Weber quality pairing, but looking at their respective resumes (even though short, especially for Klefbom) I really see them as being a liability out there. Both of them have shown that they can handle it (and quite well).

Honestly the last thing on my mind at this point is if Larsson is able to put up 10-20 more points than he did last year (although I think he will). What I want to see is a decent defense with players not playing out of their depths and I think that is what we have here. If by the end of the season we see that we really need more points from the back-end since none of our current players have been able to step up then I would look to acquiring an offensive D.

 

[LaGu]

D aren't the only ones on the PP. Forwards can put pucks on net as well.

Last season Pou was injured. Maroon was effective in his time here. Next season we have Lucic, Maroon and Pou all healthy. Blaming everything on not having an offensive D is an excuse. We needed net presence guys just as bad.

NJD, 9th overall in PP% and PPG in 15/16
Top 6 PP FW
Plamieri 11 goals - 23 pts
Zajac 6 goals - 17 pts
Stempniak 3 goals - 12 pts
Henrique 7 goals - 12 pts
Josefsson 3 goals - 11 pts
Cammalleri 3 goals - 10 pts

Top 3 PP D
Schlemko 1 goals - 12 pts
Moore 1 goals - 6 pts
Severson 0 goals - 5 pts

FW: 33 goals - 85 pts
D: 2 goals - 23 pts


EDM 15/16
Top 6 PP FW
McDavid 3 goals - 14 pts
Hall 4 goals - 12 pts
Letestu 3 goals - 12 pts
RNH 4 goals - 11 pts
Eberle 7 goals - 11 pts
Draisaitl 5 goals - 9 pts

Top 3 PP D
Sekera 2 goals - 14 pts
Schultz 1 goals - 6 pts
Klefbom 0 goals - 3 pts

FW: 26 goals - 69 pts
D: 3 goals - 23 pts


That's with Schultz 45 GP and Klefbom 30 GP.

I am not saying that NJD is the model for a good PP, but you can run a good PP without the PP QB specialists, but it is very difficult to run a good PP without decent production from the FWs.

 

[oilinblood]

Another person to turn on Hall, suprise,surprise.

Larsson and Lucic will be very good and important players to this team but losing Hall who was our best player for years sucks.

With trading Hall it brings a cloud of uncertainty over the head of Draisaitl who knows how he's going to perform with Maroon/Puljujarvi. With the "driver" thing IMO Puljujarvi is the type of player who drives the play, so in the long run he's the guy who actually replaces Hall.

hate to tell you this but Drais never conceded possession to Hall the way RNH always did. If hall was the best option he moved the puck there but it was never automatic. Drais played the same way with everyone he was put with.

im not worried about drais one bit. he came in and played on his terms. he didnt come in and just head man pucks and circle. he drove plays.

ive lost alot of respect for people on this board for not being able to watch and analyze hockey. if hall takes a pass and then decides hes going to put his head down and not look at the ice...thats his thing. but drais never conceded play to his linemates. he always expected people to be making decisions every split second of every play...just like he does.

drais can work on his shot (apparently doing that as we speak) and keep goaliues more honest in that regard.
this season will show

 

[Fourier]

NJD, 9th overall in PP% and PPG in 15/16
Top 6 PP FW
Plamieri 11 goals - 23 pts
Zajac 6 goals - 17 pts
Stempniak 3 goals - 12 pts
Henrique 7 goals - 12 pts
Josefsson 3 goals - 11 pts
Cammalleri 3 goals - 10 pts

Top 3 PP D
Schlemko 1 goals - 12 pts
Moore 1 goals - 6 pts
Severson 0 goals - 5 pts

FW: 33 goals - 85 pts
D: 2 goals - 23 pts


EDM 15/16
Top 6 PP FW
McDavid 3 goals - 14 pts
Hall 4 goals - 12 pts
Letestu 3 goals - 12 pts
RNH 4 goals - 11 pts
Eberle 7 goals - 11 pts
Draisaitl 5 goals - 9 pts

Top 3 PP D
Sekera 2 goals - 14 pts
Schultz 1 goals - 6 pts
Klefbom 0 goals - 3 pts

FW: 26 goals - 69 pts
D: 3 goals - 23 pts


That's with Schultz 45 GP and Klefbom 30 GP.

I am not saying that NJD is the model for a good PP, but you can run a good PP without the PP QB specialists, but it is very difficult to run a good PP without decent production from the FWs.

The Devils ran their pp with one defenseman and it moved through Palmieri whenever I watched. He played form the left half wall so a left handed defenseman made sense. David Schlemko was their guy it seems. He is 29 years old and has never had more than 19 points so its not like he has high end offensive skills.

Larsson is better offensively than Schlemko, but the Devils used Greene and Larsson pretty much exclusively in a shut down role. Even so Larsson still managed to pretty much match Schelmko's numbers.

 

[oilinblood]

NJD, 9th overall in PP% and PPG in 15/16
Top 6 PP FW
Plamieri 11 goals - 23 pts
Zajac 6 goals - 17 pts
Stempniak 3 goals - 12 pts
Henrique 7 goals - 12 pts
Josefsson 3 goals - 11 pts
Cammalleri 3 goals - 10 pts

Top 3 PP D
Schlemko 1 goals - 12 pts
Moore 1 goals - 6 pts
Severson 0 goals - 5 pts

FW: 33 goals - 85 pts
D: 2 goals - 23 pts


EDM 15/16
Top 6 PP FW
McDavid 3 goals - 14 pts
Hall 4 goals - 12 pts
Letestu 3 goals - 12 pts
RNH 4 goals - 11 pts
Eberle 7 goals - 11 pts
Draisaitl 5 goals - 9 pts

Top 3 PP D
Sekera 2 goals - 14 pts
Schultz 1 goals - 6 pts
Klefbom 0 goals - 3 pts

FW: 26 goals - 69 pts
D: 3 goals - 23 pts


That's with Schultz 45 GP and Klefbom 30 GP.

I am not saying that NJD is the model for a good PP, but you can run a good PP without the PP QB specialists, but it is very difficult to run a good PP without decent production from the FWs.

With the front talent we have what you really need is just a dman who can get a heavy shot through traffic. it doesnt have to be a souray bomb. just get it through. it causes rebounds and mayhem. if you do that teams will respect that point.

we need a point presence pkers need to respext and challenge. again...it DOES NOT have to be a bomb.

Ive seen average dmen be over-valued because they simply were able to get pucks through on the pp (and also read when the right time to shoot was -regarding support and net front presence). some guys with lighter shots can keep it low and difficult for goalies to smother.
From the oilers the last guy i remember being good at this was ulanov. Hed focus on just aiming through legs and the shot was always low and 80% of the time a rebound or tip. Not a bullet. Niinimaa was great at it.

we dont need a goal scorer up top...but we need a guy who pkers know can get that puck through. that makes the point really threatening when you are dealing with such soft hands and size in the slot.

best of all time for it was lidstrom. guy hardly ever got his shot blocked, had power, and could manipulate d coverage to open seems. Next best i ever watched was Zubov who to me didnt have as powerful a shot but it was how he maipulated pkers. he could make a play or get it through you. he could tease you in one direction to open a line for the half way pass and snipe from the hashes

I think Larsson can be that guy. i think Klef can be that guy. i think there is talent here that they should be able to find the solution. sekerfa is not that guy...he cant thread through legs. maybe he needs glasses

 

[oilinblood]

Hall gone is a blow to our 5 on 5 no doubt. Hall and McDavid were the only 2 drivers.

With that being said, Hall getting traded is an upgrade to our PP. Hall and RNH passing back and forth behind the net is cringe worthy. Lucic, Pou, Maroon are all net presence. All 3 adds element that our skilled players need and that's to deter and create space.

I talked about this when months ago before the hall trade and my intention was never to attack hall...but i will repeat what i said.

In RNH rookie year he liked to handle the puck and then find his wingers. since then he has CONCEDED possession to his wingers

i pointed this out at the end of the year and said that i felt RNH was one of the more mature, higher talented, and better defensively than Ebs and Hall. In that regard i want HIM driving the play. I DONT WANT HIM conceding ANYTHING.

I also talked alot about how we remained in last palce every year because head-manning the puck in even man situations is FINE if you attack with support. But if one guy is just chugging up the ice every time ahead of his support and whistling a bad angle shot you wont get long periods of pressure. Its wasted possession. id like to see what the skill does with more composure and attacking as units rather than one guy chugging up the ice with his head down

i want to see how RNH does when he actually uses his skill instead of just conceding possession to his wing all the damn time

 

[LaGu]

I don't know, I guess I don't see PP production from the D as such a crucial part of being a decent/good team.

And even if you do have a good PP QB it doesn't necessarily mean that the PP is "fixed". Look at Ottawa and Tampa that were in the bottom 5 this year in PP% despite having Karlsson and Hedman.

 

[oilinblood]

I don't know, I guess I don't see PP production from the D as such a crucial part of being a decent/good team.

And even if you do have a good PP QB it doesn't necessarily mean that the PP is "fixed". Look at Ottawa and Tampa that were in the bottom 5 this year in PP% despite having Karlsson and Hedman.

You need the threat at the point. What is threatening to any PK is a Dman who can execute shots and passes through traffic.

With no threat at the point everyone is too easy to defend and there is too much traffic. You want to open up the defense and use that extra space from the man in the box. When you have skilled guys on the ice...that extra space means everything.

 

[LaGu]

The Devils ran their pp with one defenseman and it moved through Palmieri whenever I watched. He played form the left half wall so a left handed defenseman made sense. David Schlemko was their guy it seems. He is 29 years old and has never had more than 19 points so its not like he has high end offensive skills.

Larsson is better offensively than Schlemko, but the Devils used Greene and Larsson pretty much exclusively in a shut down role. Even so Larsson still managed to pretty much match Schelmko's numbers.

Exactly.

I would agree that Larsson is better than Schlemko offensively. I also think that Severson is the best offensive D on NJD and even though he did get time on their PP (25-30% of the PP TOI, but less than Schlemko) it obviously didn't work because they ran it much more effectively the way you describe it and then there was no need for a RD.

I would also add that it is really difficult to do anything else than speculate about how things will go this season. Honestly I think it is pretty daring to claim that the book has already been written on players who hasn't seen that much time on the PP. Sekera is a decent option in my opinion. If he produces like last season that would be good. I liked what I saw from Klefbom, but he needs more time to develop. He only played 27 mins of PP in 14/15 and 56 mins in 15/16 and even though his points/60 mins is actually pretty decent the sample size is just too small. I also didn't mind Larsson on the PP in his rookie season (until he was injured) and he was decent on the PP in the last world championships for Sweden (2 points in 7 GP). In NJ he got 20 mins in 14/15 and 13 mins in 15/16 so it was just the sporadic shift when no one else was available I guess.

Anyway, I think one of the points I am really trying to make here is that I don't really think this team will live or die based on PP production from the D. I actually think it is one of the least important things to look for when going into this season, even though it obviously would be great to have it.

 

[LaGu]

You need the threat at the point. What is threatening to any PK is a Dman who can execute shots and passes through traffic.

With no threat at the point everyone is too easy to defend and there is too much traffic. You want to open up the defense and use that extra space from the man in the box. When you have skilled guys on the ice...that extra space means everything.

I get your point and I do think some of our guys could become that threat, but I still don't know if it really is that crucial. Even if you do have that threat it can be difficult to score on the PP (see Ottawa, Tampa, Winnipeg).

Look at how we did last year, with Sekera who is not that guy. At the end of the day we were 18th in PP% with only 45 GP with our best PP producer by far in McDavid (and I am guessing he's pretty good at drawing penalties as well). They played a grand total of 1 minute 5on3 last season (scoring 0 goals). In general EDM had relatively few opportunities, almost no 5on3, and were missing some key players. I count Klefbom as well since he was beginning to find his own on the PP imo.


edit: or let me put it another way, I just don't think it is that hard to be a threat from the point and I bet at least one or two of our players can play that role decently.

 

[Canovin]

You need the threat at the point. What is threatening to any PK is a Dman who can execute shots and passes through traffic.

With no threat at the point everyone is too easy to defend and there is too much traffic. You want to open up the defense and use that extra space from the man in the box. When you have skilled guys on the ice...that extra space means everything.

It's good to have a threat at the point but if there's no net presence then the PP specialist won't shot either. Pou was really the only one who did a good job of screening goalies. With the addition of Maroon and Lucic, it will help the PP QBs immensely.

On that note, Lidstrom's shot wasn't hard. It was accurate in getting throw traffic. One of the best for sure.

 

[McShogun99]

It's good to have a threat at the point but if there's no net presence then the PP specialist won't shot either. Pou was really the only one who did a good job of screening goalies. With the addition of Maroon and Lucic, it will help the PP QBs immensely.

On that note, Lidstrom's shot wasn't hard. It was accurate in getting throw traffic. One of the best for sure.

Lucic will be a huge boost to out PP, as well as a healthy Klefbom and Davidson. Now if only Yakupov could improve his defensive play to be a reliable point option on the PP.

 

[Tarus]

'15-16 Lucic + Larsson = 73 points
'14-15 Lucic + Larsson = 68 points

'15-16 Hall + Fayne = 72 points
'14-15 Hall + Fayne = 46 points

Yeah not really. By bumping Fayne to the 3rd pairing or better yet the PB and giving Larsson his minutes we'll add whatever the difference in offense between Hall and Looch would be.

That's a curious comparison there.

You've got Lucic(who played on a significantly better offensive team all season, with much better centers to work with than Hall did with Drai) + Larsson(a 22 minute a night supposed top pairing defenseman), and they barely outscored Hall + a dumpster of a bottom pairing defenseman that managed all of 7 points last year? That is not a flattering comparison, and definitely isn't a compelling argument that the Hall's offense will be covered. I also split my comments on the defense and forwards for a reason as well, as the second line is now filled with inconsistent complimentary players(RNH, Pouliot, Drai, maybe Yakupov if you're an optimist), along with an untested wild card(Pulijujarvi), all of which are likely to struggle for reasons unrelated to the defense.

I also get that Fayne will be bumped down the roster(until Klefbom is injured again anyways), but that doesn't change the fact that the Oilers are still fielding a majority defensive core that consistently struggles to execute even simple, short ranged breakout passes. It's easy to forget while so deep into summer, but Sekera, Davidson, Osterle, Reinhart, Nurse, and of course Fayne were all consistently terrible at supporting the forwards and moving the puck up the ice quickly. Hell, even Klefbom wasn't great in that role, he just looked great in comparison the rest of the Oiler D. So even if Larsson achieves the lofty expectations being floated around here about his potential impact, he will still only be one man on a team. He's not going to be able to compensate for the other 5 defensemen sitting on the bench with them.

There is actually a very real risk here of yet another slow Oiler team due to the ineffective breakout and lack of offensive threats on the back end. One that is always late on the forecheck after dump ins(Mclellan is completely infatuated with that play), depends on hail mary rushes through the neutral zone by forwards far too frequently(and they just dumped one of their only two guys who was really good at it), and is easily shut down by any team putting even a halfhearted effort into a trap system.

 

[Aerrol]

Lucic will be a huge boost to out PP, as well as a healthy Klefbom and Davidson. Now if only Yakupov could improve his defensive play to be a reliable point option on the PP.

I don't think Yak has to improve his defensive play to be a reliable point option on the PP, he just has to be better at keeping the puck in and work on his one-timer accuracy. And even then, I prefer him right half-wall to fire those shots off (and where he only has to focus on that one-timer accuracy).

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

They downgraded the offense, and added one non-star level defensive defenseman to arguably the worst defense in the NHL(the absolute worst playmaking/passing defense in the NHL at the very least, which they made no effort to address). Not sure why anyone would want to fall into the trap(yet again) of believing they'll be a playoff contender after a decade of watching the team fly way under even the most conservative predictions year after year.

A little pessimism in August makes for a lot less anguish in November when the team goes into it's inevitable funk on it's first extended road trip.

Hall to Lucic isn't a downgrade, it's just different. Add an older more confident and hopefully healthy McDavid (and Drai) plus a full year of net presence and size from lucic and maroon. Puljujarvi may or may not make a difference (I think he will), and Nuge and Ebs should both do better for different reasons. The size difference from the start of last year will help us get/keep possession and will make everyone else better and net presence will add to the score sheet. Meanwhile adding Larsson and no Schultz will get the puck out of our end and into theirs faster and for longer. GF will go up.
Adding Larsson brings a top level defenseman who pushes everyone else down a spot and compared to the start of last year we'll have him eating big minutes instead of schultz. The younger guys also have more experience and hopefully we'll continue to see improvements there. GA will go down.

Overall I think we'll see more of a team game this year that will get better over time instead of falling apart with adversity. There will be a lot less Chinese fire drill in our end replaced with sustained pressure in theirs and a lot of those 1 goal losses will turn into 1 goal wins. I think the corner has been turned.

Having said all that, I get the pessimism... we've watched the same old thing for a while now and been let down over and over and nothing is a sure thing. A couple key injuries early in the year and the whole thing will implode as we fall into the usual negative feedback cycle of " we lost, therefore we suck, so we'll lose again, which means we really suck..." etc etc. A good start to the season is always important but this year more than ever.

My key worries to start this year are:
- a bad start right out of the gate either do to injuries or confused clusterfudge due to line juggling. I really hope we come out of camp healthy with guys already settled in with each other and systems.
- injuries.... we lost so many key guys for long periods last year
- Klefbom... How much of a setback will all that lost time be? Or will he pick up where he left off? This applies to Davidson as well.
- Talbot.. we need him to have a good start
- Larsson needs to start well, we can't afford to have him take a month to settle in to the new team. He doesn't have to be amazing but we need solid right off the bat.

The past few years I've approached the new season hopeful, but with very low expectations. This year I'm actually optimistic, we're not the same team we were last year.