Taylor Hall For Adam Larsson V | 4,000+ Posts and Counting!

[McDraekke]

We're about to find out if sophomore jinx is real and if the Oilers haven't just setup McDavid by having it be primarily a one line team. If the vision is Mcdavid with Lucic and Eberle who drives offense on the other lines. RNH? lmao.

This team won't be more "offensively oriented" by subtracting its top producer.

Hall will get more pts than Lucic barring injury. I have zero doubt about that.

Again Lucic had 55pts in LA (close to his peak) playing with allstars like Kopitar and Carter. Do people think those guys are slouches? Those guys get the biscuit to scoring areas more than anybody on this team.

OK, I gotta ask: When did all this talk about "driving offense" start becoming so big? Seriously, it seems like it just started this off-season. If they load up the first line with the best possible option: McDavid line has Lucic and Eberle on it, that leaves: RNH, Draisaitl, Pouliot, Maroon, Yakupov, Puljujarvi to round out the middle 9. While it's not the most enviable position in the world, that's still a decent amount and mix of talent and grit that will generate a decent amount of points. And that's only if they load up the top line, which I bet they won't right off the bat.

The Oilers are not a one-line team, that is laughable.

And no matter how many times I bring up the concept of losing Hall, but adding Lucic and Larsson will probably end up with net even or possibly positive points, people tend to ignore it, rather than discuss it. And if you missed my post about this, I even increased Hall's point total to 75, while keeping Lucic and Larsson the same from last season. Why do people continue to ignore this?

 

[McFlyingV]

We're about to find out if sophomore jinx is real and if the Oilers haven't just setup McDavid by having it be primarily a one line team. If the vision is Mcdavid with Lucic and Eberle who drives offense on the other lines. RNH? lmao.

This team won't be more "offensively oriented" by subtracting its top producer.

Hall will get more pts than Lucic barring injury. I have zero doubt about that.

Again Lucic had 55pts in LA (close to his peak) playing with allstars like Kopitar and Carter. Do people think those guys are slouches? Those guys get the biscuit to scoring areas more than anybody on this team.

Well that certainly wasn't true last year considering McDavid led the league in high danger scoring chances per 60 by a fair margin and did so playing almost 20 minutes a night.

I think anyone worry about a sophomore slump out of McDavid isn't going to be worrying for long.

 

[McFlyingV]

OK, I gotta ask: When did all this talk about "driving offense" start becoming so big? Seriously, it seems like it just started this off-season. If they load up the first line with the best possible option: McDavid line has Lucic and Eberle on it, that leaves: RNH, Draisaitl, Pouliot, Maroon, Yakupov, Puljujarvi to round out the middle 9. While it's not the most enviable position in the world, that's still a decent amount and mix of talent and grit that will generate a decent amount of points. And that's only if they load up the top line, which I bet they won't right off the bat.

The Oilers are not a one-line team, that is laughable.

And no matter how many times I bring up the concept of losing Hall, but adding Lucic and Larsson will probably end up with net even or possibly positive points, people tend to ignore it, rather than discuss it. And if you missed my post about this, I even increased Hall's point total to 75, while keeping Lucic and Larsson the same from last season. Why do people continue to ignore this?

I don't understand it either. The Rangers finish 7th in GF last year and the majority of their forwards are exactly what we have, with them not having a McDavid. Who drove their offence? And god I hope no one says Chris Kreider (aka Todd Marchant).

RNH is pretty comparable to centres like Stepan and Brassard.

 

[ScrillaVilla]

It doesn't matter if we win the trade; what matters is if we are a better team.

It's ok to pay $100 for a bottle of water if you're dying of thirst. It doesn't matter if it's a "fair price".

Fair enough, still this team has put themselves in a position to be dying of thirst so often that its the equivalent of paying 100 dollars for a bottle of water twice a day for a year. Not a winning recipe. This isn't a one off.

 

[McDraekke]

Fair enough, still this team has put themselves in a position to be dying of thirst so often that its the equivalent of paying 100 dollars for a bottle of water twice a day for a year. Not a winning recipe. This isn't a one off.

I would agree that in the past this organization has shot itself in the foot too many times to name. But you have to look at each GM tenure as a different time period in order to properly see where things might be headed. To me at least, Chiarelli is moving this team in the right direction.

 

[Replacement*]

OK, I gotta ask: When did all this talk about "driving offense" start becoming so big? Seriously, it seems like it just started this off-season. If they load up the first line with the best possible option: McDavid line has Lucic and Eberle on it, that leaves: RNH, Draisaitl, Pouliot, Maroon, Yakupov, Puljujarvi to round out the middle 9. While it's not the most enviable position in the world, that's still a decent amount and mix of talent and grit that will generate a decent amount of points. And that's only if they load up the top line, which I bet they won't right off the bat.

You question the word drive and use the term generate all in the same paragraph. Wow, ask yourself how incredibly speciously vernacular that is.

What, I didn't use the right word for you? unreal.

next, who among the bolded will "Generate" offense using your word, lol? Name names. Specifically. Because none of them have done this, they have more typically been beneficiaries.

The Oilers are not a one-line team, that is laughable.

They were with Hall last year for a good segment of the year.

And no matter how many times I bring up the concept of losing Hall, but adding Lucic and Larsson will probably end up with net even or possibly positive points, people tend to ignore it, rather than discuss it. And if you missed my post about this, I even increased Hall's point total to 75, while keeping Lucic and Larsson the same from last season. Why do people continue to ignore this?

tbh I didn't even see it. A lot of posts on this topic..

 

[rrc1967]

We're about to find out if sophomore jinx is real and if the Oilers haven't just setup McDavid by having it be primarily a one line team. If the vision is Mcdavid with Lucic and Eberle who drives offense on the other lines. RNH? lmao.

This team won't be more "offensively oriented" by subtracting its top producer.

Hall will get more pts than Lucic barring injury. I have zero doubt about that.

Again Lucic had 55pts in LA (close to his peak) playing with allstars like Kopitar and Carter. Do people think those guys are slouches? Those guys get the biscuit to scoring areas more than anybody on this team.

we're talking in relation to NJD though.

have you SEEN that lineup?

 

[McDraekke]

You question the word drive and use the term generate all in the same paragraph. Wow, ask yourself how incredibly speciously vernacular that is.

What, I didn't use the right word for you? unreal.

next, who among the bolded will "Generate" usuing your word, lol, the offense? Name names. Specifically. Because none of them have done this, they have more typically been beneficiaries.


They were with Hall last year for a good segment of the year.

tbh I didn't even see it. A lot of posts on this topic..

No, the point I was making is that you seem to think only one player is capable of "driving" the offense. I was saying that the line will still generate offense, because if you think otherwise, that is illogical.

Hall was very noticeable in "driving" the offense, or creating offense, but saying that the others aren't capable of it is the only way you've been able to continue your argument about the Hall trade. When Hall is out of the line up do the Oilers get shut out every night? No. Does the team miss his contribution? Absolutely. But the same is said about Eberle, RNH, Klefbom, etc etc.

Basically I'm arguing your general concept of 1 player on the line that is the one player who will be generating offense. Hall does it very consistently, I get that. But every other Top 6 NHLer does to a different extent (either better or worse than Hall, if that's the bar we're discussing). Do I think RNH or Eberle or Drai is capable of "driving" or creating offense as effectively and consistently as Hall? No I don't, at least not yet in Drai's case. But I do believe that this team is a better team in the long run after this trade. We should have fewer GA, and a very similar GF.

 

[doulos]

OK, I gotta ask: When did all this talk about "driving offense" start becoming so big? Seriously, it seems like it just started this off-season. If they load up the first line with the best possible option: McDavid line has Lucic and Eberle on it, that leaves: RNH, Draisaitl, Pouliot, Maroon, Yakupov, Puljujarvi to round out the middle 9. While it's not the most enviable position in the world, that's still a decent amount and mix of talent and grit that will generate a decent amount of points. And that's only if they load up the top line, which I bet they won't right off the bat.

The Oilers are not a one-line team, that is laughable.

And no matter how many times I bring up the concept of losing Hall, but adding Lucic and Larsson will probably end up with net even or possibly positive points, people tend to ignore it, rather than discuss it. And if you missed my post about this, I even increased Hall's point total to 75, while keeping Lucic and Larsson the same from last season. Why do people continue to ignore this?

It's one of the latest buzz words that seems to be tied in with analytics and jazz. It's like compete-level!

 

[Young Lions*]

It's one of the latest buzz words that seems to be tied in with analytics and jazz. It's like compete-level!

No it's the opposite of someone who is a complimentary player. A player who can move around the line up and consistently bring results and make his teammates better. Pittsburgh won a Cup with three such guys. Hall was such a player and McDavid is certainly going to be one, but we don't have anyone else who has proven they can do that yet.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

For all the scoring Hall did it didn't take the team anywhere except another laughable last place finish. How many people at the start of last year said a healthy Hall would take us places?

Hall's a great player but I struggle to label him a franchise player when he seemingly gets overlooked by Team Canada and other such committees. I don't think it's a coincidence that he keeps getting passed over. Sure I can sympathize with the anger of such things, but when you start to really look at it, isn't it kinda weird that Team Canada keeps ignoring him?

It's really just a fanbase's perception of their players. Hall has always been a great player but now that he's gone he's suddenly an irreplaceable leader figure that was surely on the cusp of leading the Oilers into the playoffs. If the team finished higher than it did last season there's a good chance Hall is still an Oiler. Instead last year was a harsh reminder of how far away this team is from doing anything significant, even with Hall.

This team needed an improved defense and the only 2 better defensemen that were on the market were traded for each other, something the Oilers couldn't have possibly matched in value without selling a big chunk of the farm. Signing Demers would've just been the MacTavish strategy and we saw last year how that wasn't enough. Time will tell how much the team has improved (if any) but keeping the status quo was simply not an option unless you enjoy telling everyone that next year is the Oilers year.

For all the improvements the team made last year, all that did was help them hold off the Leafs for last place. If a better option was out there I'm sure Chia would've explored it. Unfortunately when you do nothing but lose the perception around your team isn't exactly a positive one (look no further than Phil Kessel) and the perceived value of our players is a testament to that.

Did Chia lose the trade? Yeah, probably. This is what happens when you're dealing from a position of weakness. And the Oilers are weak in almost every facet of hockey imaginable. Crap defense, average goaltending, and okay forwards. People keep talking about how talented the Oilers are but the fact of the matter is we just have a collection of #1s who haven't really accomplished anything. RNH is steady but unspectacular, Yak is closing in on bust territory, and Hall is the best of the bunch but that's not saying much. When Jordan Eberle is your best goal scorer, perhaps it's time to re-evaluate what talent really is.

 

[Replacement*]

No it's the opposite of someone who is a complimentary player. A player who can move around the line up and consistently bring results and make his teammates better. Pittsburgh won a Cup with three such guys. Hall was such a player and McDavid is certainly going to be one, but we don't have anyone else who has proven they can do that yet.

Thank you, this is more than an obvious, and I have no idea how posters are suggesting that others will simply be able to do that, and push the offense, and consistently challenge D's taking it to the house, when they haven't been doing that.

 

[nabob]

This has officially become the most rediculous thread in HFOil history, and there have been some doozies.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Thank you, this is more than an obvious, and I have no idea how posters are suggesting that others will simply be able to do that, and push the offense, and consistently challenge D's taking it to the house, when they haven't been doing that.

So why didn't he drive the offense when McDavid returned?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

This has officially become the most rediculous thread in HFOil history, and there have been some doozies.

Hall is Messier, Bure, Weight, and I'm sure I missed a few other comparisons.

 

[Replacement*]

No, the point I was making is that you seem to think only one player is capable of "driving" the offense. I was saying that the line will still generate offense, because if you think otherwise, that is illogical.

Hall was very noticeable in "driving" the offense, or creating offense, but saying that the others aren't capable of it is the only way you've been able to continue your argument about the Hall trade. When Hall is out of the line up do the Oilers get shut out every night? No. Does the team miss his contribution? Absolutely. But the same is said about Eberle, RNH, Klefbom, etc etc.

.

You believe that others will pick up the slack in "generating" offense when they haven't done much of that in several years and you are describing that as logic.

I describe it as hope, even empty hope that isn't substantiated.

 

[LaGu]

Hall is Messier, Bure, Weight, and I'm sure I missed a few other comparisons.

Hall became god the minute he wad traded ....

FFS and I honestly don't even want to get into this discussion but it is getting crazy. Hall may go on to become a great one, mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Messier and Bure. I would not be that surprised to be honest, but to say he is there now is just ... Buh, odd, to say the least. Well, at least it makes people talk a lot here, which I sometimes suspect is the motive.

 

[McDraekke]

You believe that others will pick up the slack in "generating" offense when they haven't done much of that in several years and you are describing that as logic.

I describe it as hope, even empty hope that isn't substantiated.

Which is exactly what I think of the posters who are saying that the same lineup next year would have brought us closer to the playoffs.

Not every line in the NHL is a "driver" that you are describing. But yet they manage to get points.

 

[nabob]

Hall is Messier, Bure, Weight, and I'm sure I missed a few other comparisons.

Reminds me of when the same people were saying that Gagner = Gilmour, Bobby Clarke, Damphousse.

Don't get me wrong Hall is a great player that can score points at an elite level when healthy and on his game, but some of these statements are mind bottling.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Reminds me of when the same people were saying that Gagner = Gilmour, Bobby Clarke, Damphousse.

Don't get me wrong Hall is a great player that can score points at an elite level when healthy and on his game, but some of these statements are mind bottling.

It's simply a franchise's fans overrating its own players. Hall is a great player but that's it for now. The true elites of their league drive their teams forward in the standings and beyond.

If the Oilers made tangible progress in the standings last season there's no doubt in my mind we're not talking about this trade.

 

[Young Lions*]

For all the scoring Hall did it didn't take the team anywhere except another laughable last place finish. How many people at the start of last year said a healthy Hall would take us places?

I think you're watching the wrong sport. If you're looking for players elevating their teams all by their lonesome, basketball might be more your thing.

Hall's a great player but I struggle to label him a franchise player when he seemingly gets overlooked by Team Canada and other such committees. I don't think it's a coincidence that he keeps getting passed over. Sure I can sympathize with the anger of such things, but when you start to really look at it, isn't it kinda weird that Team Canada keeps ignoring him?

It's not really when you consider the people involved in the decision making and what qualities they are looking for, which include being a centre and playing a safe, low-risk game.

It's really just a fanbase's perception of their players. Hall has always been a great player but now that he's gone he's suddenly an irreplaceable leader figure that was surely on the cusp of leading the Oilers into the playoffs.

What a ridiculous strawman.

If the team finished higher than it did last season there's a good chance Hall is still an Oiler. Instead last year was a harsh reminder of how far away this team is from doing anything significant, even with Hall.

Last years team was no different in composition from all the other teams that Hall was on before in that it had no defense and little depth and what little it had of both was gutted by injuries. Not sure why that's the decision point.

This team needed an improved defense and the only 2 better defensemen that were on the market were traded for each other, something the Oilers couldn't have possibly matched in value without selling a big chunk of the farm. Signing Demers would've just been the MacTavish strategy and we saw last year how that wasn't enough. Time will tell how much the team has improved (if any) but keeping the status quo was simply not an option unless you enjoy telling everyone that next year is the Oilers year.

If the team had kept Hall and added Demers and finally got some luck with injuries, there's almost no doubt it would have been better. But what's interesting is that we've traded Hall and added Lucic and are still a long shot to make the playoffs, so really how much better is the new strategy?

For all the improvements the team made last year, all that did was help them hold off the Leafs for last place. If a better option was out there I'm sure Chia would've explored it. Unfortunately when you do nothing but lose the perception around your team isn't exactly a positive one (look no further than Phil Kessel) and the perceived value of our players is a testament to that.

Hall's value was so low that New Jersey happily traded their best young D man for him.

Did Chia lose the trade? Yeah, probably. This is what happens when you're dealing from a position of weakness. And the Oilers are weak in almost every facet of hockey imaginable. Crap defense, average goaltending, and okay forwards. People keep talking about how talented the Oilers are but the fact of the matter is we just have a collection of #1s who haven't really accomplished anything. RNH is steady but unspectacular, Yak is closing in on bust territory, and Hall is the best of the bunch but that's not saying much. When Jordan Eberle is your best goal scorer, perhaps it's time to re-evaluate what talent really is.

Thank goodness we've moved on and are putting our faith in brand new collection of shiny toys, eh? This time it'll be different, right?

 

[LaGu]

You believe that others will pick up the slack in "generating" offense when they haven't done much of that in several years and you are describing that as logic.

I describe it as hope, even empty hope that isn't substantiated.

I have no doubt EDM will score goals this coming season with respect the last two (at least). Players grow and it is a fairly well balanced team imho.

 

[nabob]

Now we're relying on not having any injuries and getting lucky to improve? Is Tambellini posting here?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Now we're relying on not having any injuries and getting lucky to improve? Is Tambellini posting here?

Some people haven't been watching for very long apparently... No team is ever completely healthy. You have to plan for injuries.

And I mean, Hall hasn't played a full, 82-game season prior to this last one.

 

[Young Lions*]

Now we're relying on not having any injuries and getting lucky to improve? Is Tambellini posting here?

So you genuinely think that the Oilers would have been as poor as they were last year if they had Klef and McDavid for the full year?