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Speculation: Taylor Hall Contract

lanky said:
What's the contract offer look like?

8 years $11m?
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I feel like 80m should do it, giving low cost of living and favorable tax situation. But I have no idea. Panarin got 11.65aav (high cost of living, unfavorable tax situation), and Duchene got 8.00aav (similar state and local factors). Panarin is more highly regarded than Hall, and Hall is more highly regarded than Duchene (Duchene is a center, however, and I would think that matters). Hell, Tavares got 11.00aav the summer prior and he's the most highly regarded of the bunch, and is a center, and Toronto has high cost of living and unfavorable taxes. He was also fulfilling a lifelong dream, obviously. But it still sets a precedent.

There are currently 10 players in the NHL with cap-hits higher than 10M.

1. McDavid - 12.50
2. Panarin - 11.65
3. Matthews - 11.65
4. Karlsson - 11.50
5. Doughty - 11.00
6. Tavares - 11.00
7. Marner - 10.85
8. Kane - 10.50
9. Price - 10.50
10. Toews - 10.50

Only two of those guys are wingers. Both have higher career point per game totals. Both are younger. Right now Panarin is on pace for 122pts this season, and Marner for 91. Also, NYC and TOR are among the least favorable cost of living and tax situations in the NHL.
 
ducky said:
Winning a playoff round and signing Hall makes the trade a lot costly but his presence on the ice has sure made a difference.
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This is true, can't remember the last time we sold-out a playoff game, oh wait, it was EIGHT fricking years ago...
 
rt said:
I feel like 80m should do it, giving low cost of living and favorable tax situation. But I have no idea. Panarin got 11.65aav (high cost of living, unfavorable tax situation), and Duchene got 8.00aav (similar state and local factors). Panarin is more highly regarded than Hall, and Hall is more highly regarded than Duchene (Duchene is a center, however, and I would think that matters). Hell, Tavares got 11.00aav the summer prior and he's the most highly regarded of the bunch, and is a center, and Toronto has high cost of living and unfavorable taxes. He was also fulfilling a lifelong dream, obviously. But it still sets a precedent.

There are currently 10 players in the NHL with cap-hits higher than 10M.

1. McDavid - 12.50
2. Panarin - 11.65
3. Matthews - 11.65
4. Karlsson - 11.50
5. Doughty - 11.00
6. Tavares - 11.00
7. Marner - 10.85
8. Kane - 10.50
9. Price - 10.50
10. Toews - 10.50

Only two of those guys are wingers. Both have higher career point per game totals. Both are younger. Right now Panarin is on pace for 122pts this season, and Marner for 91. Also, NYC and TOR are among the least favorable cost of living and tax situations in the NHL.
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Tor also comes with a significant amount of endorsement money. It more than makes up for any tax issues, which are severely overstated.
 
Jamieh said:
Tor also comes with a significant amount of endorsement money. It more than makes up for any tax issues, which are severely overstated.
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Property value, property tax, sales tax on huge transactions, and expensive cars, etc are matter and are not severely overstated. Talk to any of the bazillions of folks in AZ who moved here from California or BC and ask them why they love it here so much. It's cheap as hell to live here. You know it. That's why you're here.
 
rt said:
Property value, property tax, sales tax on huge transactions, and expensive cars, etc are matter and are not severely overstated. Talk to any of the bazillions of folks in AZ who moved here from California or BC and ask them why they love it here so much. It's cheap as hell to live here. You know it. That's why you're here.
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A Canadian working in the US or visa versa are subject to a Tax Treaty between the two Countries. Their high end accountants will ensure it works to their advantage no matter where they live. It has been rumored that Marner as an example makes about $3 million a year from endorsements, I think that will take care of the extra cost of living. It's not cost of living that brought me to AZ, its consistent winter weather.
 
What would we guess (or if someone has a handy tool) the difference between cost of living (state and local taxes, property, sales, etc and cost of food, utilities, etc) in Scottsdale versus Manhattan (or wherever Panarin lives)? I'm going to guess your dollar is worth maybe 60%?
 
Jamieh said:
A Canadian working in the US or visa versa are subject to a Tax Treaty between the two Countries. Their high end accountants will ensure it works to their advantage no matter where they live. It has been rumored that Marner as an example makes about $3 million a year from endorsements, I think that will take care of the extra cost of living. It's not cost of living that brought me to AZ, its consistent winter weather.
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You're extremely unique. Endorsements is definitely an equalizer.
 
rt said:
You're extremely unique. Endorsements is definitely an equalizer.
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If I was choosing purely on cost of living with weather being secondary I might have chosen Florida. More months available to visit and better chance of getting rental revenue in months i dont use the place.
 
Jamieh said:
2020 Cost of Living Calculator: compare Scottsdale, Arizona to Manhattan, New York
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If I'm reading their analysis correctly, they're saying that since the cost of living is 93.9% higher, you need to make 93.9% more salary. That assumes you're spending every dime of that salary. When your salary is that high, you'd probably be banking/investing 75 percent of it, so it would be more realistic to say that you need to make 25% (or whatever that number is) more salary.
 
Tom Polakis said:
If I'm reading their analysis correctly, they're saying that since the cost of living is 93.9% higher, you need to make 93.9% more salary. That assumes you're spending every dime of that salary. When your salary is that high, you'd probably be banking/investing 75 percent of it, so it would be more realistic to say that you need to make 25% (or whatever that number is) more salary.
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I used the numbers for fun, I think I read that its 60% more expensive to live in Manhatten vs Scottsdale. Either way I doubt those who want the New York lifestyle also want the AZ lifestyle. Two very different places.
 
Name Nameless said:
I read one place bonuses are taxed with 10% or something in Canada, so all calculations are wrong. I don't remember where, and I can't guarantee it was correct at all.
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Americans working in Canada have signing bonuses taxed at 15%. Canadians working in Canada can incorporate and grow part of their salary under a 25% tax bracket. You cannot take that calculator as a hard and fast rule.
 
Name Nameless said:
I read one place bonuses are taxed with 10% or something in Canada, so all calculations are wrong. I don't remember where, and I can't guarantee it was correct at all.
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Just lurking, but no.

Province to province it is a bit different. Alberta for example, your bonus cheque tax rate is calculated as if you earn that amount all year. His would be at 48% (provincial and federal) no shelter.

Obviously there are some shelters, you could use.
 
Pucklington said:
Just lurking, but no.

Province to province it is a bit different. Alberta for example, your bonus cheque tax rate is calculated as if you earn that amount all year. His would be at 48% (provincial and federal) no shelter.

Obviously there are some shelters, you could use.
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Incorrect as I posted earlier. There are rules for Americans working in Canada, its 15% on Signing Bonus.
 
Jamieh said:
Incorrect as I posted earlier. There are rules for Americans working in Canada, its 15% on Signing Bonus.
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I thought you were talking about Hall. Sorry!

On that note, if your American working in Canada you have to pay tax on both countries correct?
 
Pucklington said:
I thought you were talking about Hall. Sorry!

On that note, if your American working in Canada you have to pay tax on both countries correct?
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No, we have a tax treaty between Canada and the USA. You only pay one tax but it could be divided between both Countries depending?? And Hall might be taxable as an American. Its complicated and no single formula can be just filled in .
 
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Jamieh said:
No, we have a tax treaty between Canada and the USA. You only pay one tax but it could be divided between both Countries depending?? And Hall might be taxable as an American. Its complicated and no single formula can be just filled in .
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With Hall, since he is a Canadian with American green card it is a bit easier. He wouldn't need to deal with any American tax if he signs in Canada. I'm not aware of him being a dual citizen. Could be wrong...

Canadian working abroad only pay tax to the country they reside. For instance my sister works in Netherlands. Doesn't file taxes in Canada as long as she doesn't own property here that earns income.

U.S is same for simple cases. If you own income earning property you would pay tax on that. But you would only pay tax in U.S. It is fairly straightforward for Canadian citizenship. U.S is more complicated.

My brother in-law was a duel canadian-American payed taxes in Canada, and was supposed to file and pay taxes in the U.S.
He ended renouncing, because being dual is a pain in the ass for tax purposes.
 
Pucklington said:
With Hall, since he is a Canadian with American green card it is a bit easier. He wouldn't need to deal with any American tax if he signs in Canada. I'm not aware of him being a dual citizen. Could be wrong...

Canadian working abroad only pay tax to the country they reside. For instance my sister works in Netherlands. Doesn't file taxes in Canada as long as she doesn't own property here that earns income.

U.S is same for simple cases. If you own income earning property you would pay tax on that. But you would only pay tax in U.S. It is fairly straightforward for Canadian citizenship. U.S is more complicated.

My brother in-law was a duel canadian-American payed taxes in Canada, and was supposed to file and pay taxes in the U.S.
He ended renouncing, because being dual is a pain in the ass for tax purposes.
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It's not that he would have to pay US tax, it's just that he might be able to choose that route if it works better tax wise. Tavares chose Signing Bonuses for a reason, I would bet taxes paid a role in that. Anyway it's way too complex for us Layman to discuss here. My point has always been that just posting a formula and thinking its correct is really short sighted.
 
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And your BIL would not have to pay taxes in two places, our Tax Treaty ensures whatever tax you pay in one Country gives you that credit in the other. And you pay taxes based on Closer Connection or time spend in each as a percentage.
 
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