Taxes on UFAs signing in Montreal.

[themilosh]

I've been an advocate for a true NET Cap for over a decade. In that, each team is given a Cap based on the federal and provincial/state tax.
While this wouldn't make signing a player cheaper, it simply allows a team (like MTL) to offer more to compensate for domestic taxes, without being handcuffed by a hard GROSS Cap.
EX: MTL can offer an extra $1.2M to a particular UFA in order to match the net income of the same offer from another city like Vegas.

 

[scrubadam]

There are about 4 or 5 teams without state taxes, but federal is close to a whopping 40% in the states. Cali teams have taxes close to Mtl as many other teams do. The 15 worst taxed cities in the NHL vary close to 5% which is very narrow compared to pre-lockout and pre-2008 differences.

New York's taxes are as high as Montreal, yet they've never had any troubles signing bit time UFAs.

Taxes arent the only reason but they do play a role.

Media and french language are probably just as much a reason.

What was the biggest UFA havs ever signed ? Gionta? Cammy? Radu ? Not exactly a murderers row.

Horrible tax situation. Horrible media situation. Then add in the fact that there is a second language. I wonder how many hockey wifes want to deal with french and their husbands being trashed and treated like garbage.

And of course if your team isnt good you attract less UFA but if all things being equal there are probably 20 cities that i think a player would rather play in then montreal.

 

[calder candidate]

I don’t know why pro sport don’t index cap based on taxes, if I was a owner I would like to have a system that gave a advantage to some team( unless I was one of the team)

 

[Domenic]

Income taxes are based on residency; unless a hockey player can prove he has significant ties to an American city but works in Canada (which is not uncommon), he’ll be taxed at our rates.

I’m not sure the stuff about bonuses being taxed at 15% is correct. Bonuses are considered regular income; taxed at the player’s regular rate. Bonuses over a certain amount do come with a 15% withholding tax (on top of regular CPP/EI), so maybe that’s where the confusion is coming from.

 

[1909]

Sick and tired to read about taxes....

Houses and overall cost of living is way cheaper than about anywhere else in North America.

These guys are paid in US$ on top of that.

 

[badbrains]

The cap should be based on net rather than gross salary. It's ridiculous that some players pay virtually no income tax while others pay 40%. Anyone who likes money will be heavily influenced by tax rates when making a contract decision.

The league preaches parity. That's not parity in the least.

 

[1909]

The cap should be based on net rather than gross salary. It's ridiculous that some players pay virtually no income tax while others pay 40%. Anyone who likes money will be heavily influenced by tax rates when making a contract decision.

The league preaches parity. That's not parity in the least.

And with the CDN vs US $ exchange rate, it will become harder and harder for some small Canadian hockey markets to be competitive.

 

[ottawa]

Sick and tired to read about taxes....

Houses and overall cost of living is way cheaper than about anywhere else in North America.

These guys are paid in US$ on top of that.

I heard Montreal is getting up there, is that true? A bit off topic sorry.

 

[JianYang]

If we want to go down that road, then why not also provide cash incentives for colder weather, and city politics. I say this tongue in cheek but where do you draw the line?

I don't think the league would ever persue this. I think the league cares for 2 big elements. Escrow, and salary cap.

While parity might be somewhat of a byproduct of those elements, the real intention for the league was to create cost certainty at a league wide level.

The league already has what they wanted to get out of the cap/escrow system, so don't expect any changes.

 

[scrubadam]

Income taxes are based on residency; unless a hockey player can prove he has significant ties to an American city but works in Canada (which is not uncommon), he’ll be taxed at our rates.

I’m not sure the stuff about bonuses being taxed at 15% is correct. Bonuses are considered regular income; taxed at the player’s regular rate. Bonuses over a certain amount do come with a 15% withholding tax (on top of regular CPP/EI), so maybe that’s where the confusion is coming from.

This was all covered on 690. What you are saying is what they said.

And lets be honest you think the QC government is going to let millions of dollars slip through its hands. You are going to have to really prove that you aren't a resident in QC to get away with not paying taxes here. They will be on you like white on rice. Max/Price are high profile guys its not going to be easy for them to tell the government they don't reside in QC even if they pinky swear.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Nobody want's to come to this province and city, the whole thing is a mess.

 

[Domenic]

This was all covered on 690. What you are saying is what they said.

And lets be honest you think the QC government is going to let millions of dollars slip through its hands. You are going to have to really prove that you aren't a resident in QC to get away with not paying taxes here. They will be on you like white on rice. Max/Price are high profile guys its not going to be easy for them to tell the government they don't reside in QC even if they pinky swear.

I live in Calgary so I don’t listen to 690.

Pacioretty and Price both live here so it’s a moot point. The CRA looks at location of dwelling and personal property, where your spouse/common law partner and dependents reside, economic/social ties, driver’s license/passport/etc. It shouldn’t be too difficult for a player to prove they are non-residents.

 

[S Bah]

Canada is a bilingual country, French is also a secondary language in Europe, many people have many tongues they speak. That's fortunate for young people to live and learn extra languages, not a burden as some seem to imply.

 

[MTL-rules]

Sick and tired to read about taxes....

Houses and overall cost of living is way cheaper than about anywhere else in North America.

These guys are paid in US$ on top of that.

That and the fact that they use "creative" taxe invasion... rich players don't pay taxes the way regular workers do, taxes have absolutely no importance on a player's decision, it's been proven over and over again by players, agents and GMs... it's one big myth.

Language is also a none factor, better yet, they can't read french papers so it should be a plus over other cities. Montreal is a multicultural city with 2 distinctives languages... you can live easily knowing only one of them.

Medias are a problem just like any big market, but that hasn't stop de biggest free agent in the last 10 years, a "shy" individual as some say, to sign with the biggest hockey market in the world.

So really there's only one reason why Montreal can't attract big free agents : we've been sucking for the last 25 years. Build a contender with talented players and FA will come by the bunch.

 

[1909]

Nobody want's to come to this province and city, the whole thing is a mess.

Look at Trump's USA.....

 

[sandviper]

Agree with you . Anyway , it shouldn't be considered as a pressure but as an opportunity . If i go 2 weeks in Spain , i will take the time to learn few words and will get a dictionary with me .

Why anglophone people are so reluctant to learn another language ?

Don’t think the issue would always be with the player. Also don’t think this is an issue with all UFAs either. However, those with families (kids) who grew up within an American education system may not welcome that challenge.

Anyhow, everyone is different. My own kids gave me grief when we moved 10 minutes west of our previous address.

 

[scrubadam]

I live in Calgary so I don’t listen to 690.

Pacioretty and Price both live here so it’s a moot point. The CRA looks at location of dwelling and personal property, where your spouse/common law partner and dependents reside, economic/social ties, driver’s license/passport/etc. It shouldn’t be too difficult for a player to prove they are non-residents.

I chose those two as an example to your point about the CRA. You can't exactly tell them I am a non resident if you are one. They are going to find out. CRA wants their money. I work for a bank and CRA is always sending us requests for statements/banking info. They want to know where you are spending.

 

[waffledave]

If this team wasn't gutted of all talent and passion then people would want to play here regardless of taxes

 

[Domenic]

I chose those two as an example to your point about the CRA. You can't exactly tell them I am a non resident if you are one. They are going to find out. CRA wants their money. I work for a bank and CRA is always sending us requests for statements/banking info. They want to know where you are spending.

You work for a Canadian bank, I’m assuming. If you bank in the US, live in the US, have family exclusively in the US, have an American passport and driver’s license, and own no property in Canada, then it won’t be difficult to prove non-resident status.

 

[Scintillating10]

The only reason Tavares signed to play in Toronto was because it is his childhood dream. If not for that, with their taxes, no way he is a Leaf today. He is an exception to the rule. The majority are like Radulov. They go where they can take home the most.

 

[Scintillating10]

Pezzetta says he loses 54% of his salary. That's on $750,000. Can you imagine what a star loss is?

 

[HabsQC]

Pezzetta days he loses 54% of his salary. That's on $750,000. Can you imagine what a star loss is?

Hey, mafiosi and politicians need to feed their family too !

 

[Scintillating10]

Hey, mafiosi and politicians need to feed their family too !

Glad they don't take 54% out of my pay cheque for taxes

 

[ReHabs]

54% straight off on the paycheque... and then 14% held in escrow... Looking at 300k on 750k. That's not easy to stomach. Cost of living must be lower than in the US by virtue of the exchange rate, 300k USD is 413k CAD.

In communist California 750k would have an effective tax of 46%, so a take home 347k on 750k after escrow. And that's the highest tax regime in the US.

There must be accounting practices to help recover some of these taxes, right? Can you subcontract yourself to yourself? Register an LLC for your hockey sticks, something like that.

 

[StCaufield]

At least we get players that don’t come here for the money lol