Tavares as Captain

[JL17]

maybe they'll be cocaptains, home and away switching

Had to happen that way in London. Dvorak and him were cocaptains.

 

[LeafGrief]

making matthews captain instead of marner might not be liked by marner camp

Marner has to get over himself. If the team believes that he's the captain, that's fine, but the sooner Marner figures out that he can be Mitch Marner instead of Doug Gilmour the better.

 

[frizzer1]

On the ice Tavares doesn’t look like a captain.
Lacks emotion and the type of inspirational leadership that we think captains should have.
BUT .......

It’s possible that he is the leader in the dressing room and the players want him to be the captain.
We have no way of knowing.

 

[therealkoho]

You can’t be serious

Far be it for me to say but I would think that he was.

 

[ChadBigly]

With all the talk on the board about the Leafs coming out flat and playing down to weaker opponents, I’ve always thought this problem was on Keefe but where’s the captain in all of this? He seems so boring and uninspired whenever I watch postgame interviews. Recall back to the playoffs against Tampa last year when Spezza had to calm them down and give them a “spark” during intermission. Why isn’t J.T. giving them that spark, drive, motivation, etc. Is there something I’m missing? Thoughts?

Do you know who else used to come out flat all the time? No energy, no sticking up for teammates, slump their shoulders and give up when the going got tough? The Tavares led Islanders.

It's certainly not all on him, but as go your star players - so goes your team, no?

 

[Puckstuff]

On the ice Tavares doesn’t look like a captain.
Lacks emotion and the type of inspirational leadership that we think captains should have.
BUT .......

It’s possible that he is the leader in the dressing room and the players want him to be the captain.
We have no way of knowing.

I'm not trying to paint a narrative or anything but I have never heard any of the players on the team praise Tavares the same way that guys like Domi, Tucker, McCabe would praise Sundin, even years later. I don't care to be wrong though, if anyone has counter evidence please do share.

To me your captain should either 1) be your best player on the ice so they can lead by example in that regard and players look up to him in that way 2) they make some type of personal sacrifice to propel the team forward i.e like Bergeron taking 2.5 million to help his team win at all costs or 3) They have some some type of charismatic, influencing, personality that can get the most out of players where there teammates deeply respect them or 4) They will stand up or fight for there teammates on the ice. Tavares to me doesn't display even one of those qualities let alone 2 or 3 of them. To me, he is like our 4th or 5th best player (and our 2nd highest paid player) doesn't fight and doesn't seem to be a talkative leader and can't quietly lead because he's not even one of the better players.

Also if us fans think there are better options to deploy an 11 million dollar cap hit, and we think Tavares holds us back just a tiny but, it's probably in the subconscious of the players as well even if they don't think it on a conscious level.

 

[hotpaws]

I don’t think you can really blame JT. When he was in NYI and they made it to the second round a few times and the ECF was anyone saying he was a bad leader?

The problem is the core guys don’t have that killer instinct. Idk what it’s going to take for them to care about winning more than points. But individual accomplishments mean a lot more to them it seems. It started before JT got there. That’s Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly. They are the four constants.

JT made the playoffs 3 times in his 9 yrs in NY , got knocked out twice in the first rd and made the 2nd rd once then got knocked out there .

Since he’s been gone they’ve advanced past the 1st rd three time and made the conference finals twice .

 

[Canadian Finn]

sounds like our captain is one of the only players on the team who have sniffed the 2nd round.

 

[kevsh]

I agree with all the points as to why he's not an ideal captain for this team, he is what he is; He's not going to go through some metamorphosis and turn into the leader we all want.

But I don't blame Tavares in that from what I've seen he works very hard on and off the ice, he's always trying to find ways to improve his game and I would never accuse him of not trying hard enough in games or not caring. He's just hasn't got the personality you want in a leader to go with his talent and work ethic.

 

[francis246]

JT made the playoffs 3 times in his 9 yrs in NY , got knocked out twice in the first rd and made the 2nd rd once then got knocked out there .

Since he’s been gone they’ve advanced past the 1st rd three time and made the conference finals twice .

The Islanders were absolute dog shit. Look at the teams they were icing.. Blaming Tavares for the incompetence of their previous ownership and GM is quite stupid. It’s a part of the reason he left.

 

[francis246]

I'm not trying to paint a narrative or anything but I have never heard any of the players on the team praise Tavares the same way that guys like Domi, Tucker, McCabe would praise Sundin, even years later. I don't care to be wrong though, if anyone has counter evidence please do share.

To me your captain should either 1) be your best player on the ice so they can lead by example in that regard and players look up to him in that way 2) they make some type of personal sacrifice to propel the team forward i.e like Bergeron taking 2.5 million to help his team win at all costs or 3) They have some some type of charismatic, influencing, personality that can get the most out of players where there teammates deeply respect them or 4) They will stand up or fight for there teammates on the ice. Tavares to me doesn't display even one of those qualities let alone 2 or 3 of them. To me, he is like our 4th or 5th best player (and our 2nd highest paid player) doesn't fight and doesn't seem to be a talkative leader and can't quietly lead because he's not even one of the better players.

Also if us fans think there are better options to deploy an 11 million dollar cap hit, and we think Tavares holds us back just a tiny but, it's probably in the subconscious of the players as well even if they don't think it on a conscious level.

You can’t really compare era’s that doesn’t really happen in this era in general. This era of players see themselves as their own entity and business. They are all about making themselves the most amount of money as they can and building their own brand. That’s the goal (which I’m fine with) you’re trying to create generational wealth. Also these players are not as candid with media because of the way comments are taken so out of context.

 

[Puckstuff]

You can’t really compare era’s that doesn’t really happen in this era in general. This era of players see themselves as their own entity and business. They are all about making themselves the most amount of money as they can and building their own brand. That’s the goal (which I’m fine with) you’re trying to create generational wealth. Also these players are not as candid with media because of the way comments are taken so out of context.

good points

 

[francis246]

good points

you do make some good points though, on the outward appearance Tavares does not exemplify the things we stereotypically look for in a great captain. He's not an overly emotional guy or doesn't spark an emotional response, he's very stoic.

 

[Notsince67]

making matthews captain instead of marner might not be liked by marner camp

You must be bored. Gaming consol down?

Marner has to get over himself. If the team believes that he's the captain, that's fine, but the sooner Marner figures out that he can be Mitch Marner instead of Doug Gilmour the better.

Easy Dr freud

 

[hotpaws]

The Islanders were absolute dog shit. Look at the teams they were icing.. Blaming Tavares for the incompetence of their previous ownership and GM is quite stupid. It’s a part of the reason he left.

I don’t think you can really blame JT. When he was in NYI and they made it to the second round a few times and the ECF was anyone saying he was a bad leader?

the above bolded is the part of your post i replied too

and you can call the team dogshit but the second he left the team vastly improved

also i'm not saying his departure was the reason they dramatically improved as soon as he left but what i am saying is the team was not as bereft of talent as his defenders make it out to be so as too make JT's light shine brighter

 

[francis246]

I don’t think you can really blame JT. When he was in NYI and they made it to the second round a few times and the ECF was anyone saying he was a bad leader?

the above bolded is the part of your post i replied too

and you can call the team dogshit but the second he left the team vastly improved

also i'm not saying his departure was the reason they dramatically improved as soon as he left but what i am saying is the team was not as bereft of talent as his defenders make it out to be so as too make JT's light shine brighter

JT was the definition of a team player on the island. The guys loved him there. Ask Matt Moulson, Bailey, Okposo and hell even Barzal what he’s done for them. He got those guys PAID.

Yes the Islanders made the playoffs a few times during Tavares’ tenure. But they were trash for most of his tenure. Both are true and neither are Tavares’ fault. The Islanders changed a lot of things right when Tavares left. They finally got a culture reset in terms of having good coaching and good management. Anyone who thinks they wouldn’t have been good with Tavares is delusional. They wanted him back just as bad as the Leafs wanted him.

Tavares leaving and the islanders doing good are not mutually exclusive. It’s just coincidence. They graduated a bunch of guys the year Tavares left and it worked out for them one year. If Tavares was there the result would have been the same.

 

[hotpaws]

JT was the definition of a team player on the island. The guys loved him there. Ask Matt Moulson, Bailey, Okposo and hell even Barzal what he’s done for them. He got those guys PAID.

Yes the Islanders made the playoffs a few times during Tavares’ tenure. But they were trash for most of his tenure. Both are true and neither are Tavares’ fault. The Islanders changed a lot of things right when Tavares left. They finally got a culture reset in terms of having good coaching and good management. Anyone who thinks they wouldn’t have been good with Tavares is delusional. They wanted him back just as bad as the Leafs wanted him.

Tavares leaving and the islanders doing good are not mutually exclusive. It’s just coincidence. They graduated a bunch of guys the year Tavares left and it worked out for them one year. If Tavares was there the result would have been the same.

Maybe i need to make it clearer for you !

in your original post that i replied too , you said ''when JT was in NY he made it to the 2nd rd a few times and to the conference final was anyone saying he was a bad leader ?''

i just felt i needed to correct you since i had no idea how you got there playoff record with JT so wrong, lol

 

[The Management]

I think he's fine as captain, and generally takes too much flack from fans due to his cap hit. The word "quietly" gets thrown around too much on the main boards, but Tavares is the definition of a player who puts up points, reliably, without much fanfare. He keeps the second line moving.

Does it matter who is captain? I think it's largely ceremonial. It clearly means a lot to John, who grew up a Leafs fan and wanted to sign here. I'd be fine with Matthews as well, and I imagine, at some point, that letter will transition to him since he is indisputably the most important player to this franchise.

I also have no problem with "boring" media interviews from our players. We've seen the foolishness around Keefe and Marner. The less you give the media in this hockey market, the better.

 

[Havoc]

He's not flashy but there's a drastic difference between the big 3 and Tavares when Tavares is fully healthy. Until he loses a next step he's the C by far.

 

[frog]

Tavares is not the true captain on the ice. Perfect example is look at that play when robertson got headshot by the jets defencemen... Tavares complains to the ref for a penalty and puts his arms up, but wont stick up for the rookie even though he was the closest... Leaving that for morgan reilly.

He doesnt behave like a leader on the ice like Mackinnon/landeskog, stamkos etc who stick up for players on the team. If you are scared of physically sticking up for your players you shouldnt be captain

 

[Antropovsky]

The real problem is Auston sharing an A with Marner. We should be laying our the red carpet for Matthews.... And not caring about hurting anyone else feelings. Hart trophy, Calder, 2 rockets, 1st overall pick and a Ted Lindsey and our management is worried about the overpaid holdout Mitch Marners feelings? The guy has been useless in 3 postseason...

Dubas nice guy routine makes him only look weaker and less of a leader to his young players.

Matthews is a big time player and he should be allowed to be the face of this franchise.

 

[francis246]

The real problem is Auston sharing an A with Marner. We should be laying our the red carpet for Matthews.... And not caring about hurting anyone else feelings. Hart trophy, Calder, 2 rockets, 1st overall pick and a Ted Lindsey and our management is worried about the overpaid holdout Mitch Marners feelings? The guy has been useless in 3 postseason...

Dubas nice guy routine makes him only look weaker and less of a leader to his young players.

Matthews is a big time player and he should be allowed to be the face of this franchise.

The problem is Marner is actually more mature than Matthews it seems. I know that’s not the public perception because there’s a false narrative out there that Marner is a baby. But from all accounts it seems like Marner embraces the captaincy role more than Matthews. Do you ever see Matthews talking to refs? Matthews kinda sucks with the media, Marner communicates with Keefe more. Also even many reports have come out talking about Marner’s huge commitment to winning and how management has had to make sure he isn’t taking losses so personal.

I haven’t heard people say any of that stuff about Matthews. I think it’s the other way around, you shouldn’t just hand a captaincy to someone who isn’t captain material. Yes Matthews scores a bunch of goals but I’m not even sure he’s the most vocal in the room. It sounds like Muzzin, Marner and Rielly are the vocal guys.

 

[francis246]

for sure....like participation awards. need two co captains in order not to upset one or the other.

ugh. this bloody team.

Buffalo had co captains with Briere and Drury.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Da JT Leafs PR feed to media narrative makes me LOL .. JT is gonna find speed this summer .. go to a game live and watch .. nothing has changed at all .. what has changed noticeably is Matty has really slowed down considerably .. but of course you can't report da truth about a 60 goal man .. your play should speak for itself .. but not in TO .. we are getting caved down middle of ice .. tending has been very very good and Willy and Robertson have won some games on their own

 

[Gabriel426]

Honestly, if JT is going to pass the torch as Capt and the current core remains. Morgan will be the Capt and not MM or AM. Nothing to do with being the best player but Morgan should be Capt now instead of JT.