Tanking

[SvechneJerk]

If anyone moves to Houston, it’ll be the Coyotes.

Any one of Hughes, Kakko, Dach, or Podkolzin make us more skilled offensively. The draft is deep at Center & Forwards, with some good Goalie prospects, as well.

We need as many darts to throw, as possible. We’re 2 points from the bottom - start selling.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

I find it quite interesting that Francis was skewered by a lot of people for being too patient and not making enough moves to make this team competitive sooner.

But then somebody new comes in, makes big trades that shockingly ends up making the team worse, and now people want to tank/rebuild. A process that will take even longer to compete than before.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

The draft isn't getting us where we need to be. Not next year, not 3 years from now. See Edmonton.

We haven't utilized our last 10 years worth of picks worth a damn.

We need legit skill, size, leadership, etc. Youre not going to consistently draft that. Waddell is going to have to make big trades, or spend big bucks on the FA market.

 

[bleedgreen]

@SaskCanesFan Yup. This is what moves for moves sake looks like. Francis held onto guys like Lindy and Hanifin because they’re a base to build on. When it got strong enough to make a move I don’t think for a second he wouldn’t have done it. He didn’t like the prices of the trades out there, and I think he was right.

We probably could’ve added Ferland without making the trade.

 

[GoldiFox]

The draft isn't getting us where we need to be. Not next year, not 3 years from now. See Edmonton.
...

Last 4 Cup Champions (Washington - Ovechkin, Pittsburgh - Crosby, and Chicago - Kane) had a #1 Overall pick playing THE key role on those teams. Those teams also had #2 (Malkin), #3 (Toews), and #4 (Backstrom) Overall Draft picks supporting their #1 Overall picks.

Are you sure that the Draft doesn't get teams where they need to be?

 

[AD Skinner]

The thing about drafting good players is that they'll eventually need to get paid like star players

 

[GoldiFox]

I find it quite interesting that Francis was skewered by a lot of people for being too patient and not making enough moves to make this team competitive sooner.

But then somebody new comes in, makes big trades that shockingly ends up making the team worse, and now people want to tank/rebuild. A process that will take even longer to compete than before.

I believe the mindset of tanking is to actually accelerate and end the process of rebuilding (see: Buffalo with Eichel and Dahlin, Pittsburgh with Crosby and Malkin, Chicago with Kane and Toews, Tampa with Hedman and Stamkos, etc., etc.).

I don't think anyone is suggesting resetting the clock. This thread is pointing out what appears obvious - that Dundon will not pay to bring in top offensive talent and Waddell apparently can't make a trade for top offensive talent which leaves a total of 1 option left: Picking top-3 in the Draft.

 

[Joe McGrath]

The draft isn't getting us where we need to be. Not next year, not 3 years from now. See Edmonton.

We haven't utilized our last 10 years worth of picks worth a damn.

We need legit skill, size, leadership, etc. Youre not going to consistently draft that. Waddell is going to have to make big trades, or spend big bucks on the FA market.

That’s gone SUPER well so far.

 

[Incubajerks]

The thing about drafting good players is that they'll eventually need to get paid like star players

And here it comes to entering unexplored territories for the Carolina Hurricanes. Unfortunately, I am aware that we do not have enough talent, we do not have a clear-minded coach, we have a new owner who, like the old one, is not willing to spend and if you do not spend, I'm sorry, you do not win. We are exactly where we deserve to be.

 

[HisIceness]

This is the weakest the Metro has been since it's inception and yet, again, this team is near the very bottom of the division.

We're not competing now or in the future with a bunch of ECHLers occupying half the roster. Hughes would be a tremendous get. Necas, Drury, and one or more of Roy/Saarela/Gauthier/Other developing into NHL legit talent would be helpful. Fox signing, and Martin/Bean developing into Slavin/Pesce 2.0 would be excellent.

I don't know if these things will happen, but they're not out of the realm of possibility. But what is certain is this, we're not going anywhere this season (again), and the Metro isn't going to be this mediocre forever. The FO has to realize this. Whether they capitalize on this remains to be seen, so far they haven't done a good job.

Hopefully some team like Tampa will want Williams and will be willing to pay a nice price for him. That's at least something to hope for. It should happen but with this management staff I'm not sure.

Oh yeah, Fire Waddell and Rod.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

That’s gone SUPER well so far.

We are just screwed.

 

[Joe McGrath]

We are just screwed.

Now you’re getting it

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Last 4 Cup Champions (Washington - Ovechkin, Pittsburgh - Crosby, and Chicago - Kane) had a #1 Overall pick playing THE key role on those teams. Those teams also had #2 (Malkin), #3 (Toews), and #4 (Backstrom) Overall Draft picks supporting their #1 Overall picks.

Are you sure that the Draft doesn't get teams where they need to be?

If you get handed the #1 overall in the 1 or 2 times a decade when that type of player comes around, maybe. We've yet to land a game changer. We need 3 or 4. Pardon me for not being happy tanking for 7 or 8 more years hoping to land the next Crosby.

 

[GoldiFox]

If you get handed the #1 overall in the 1 or 2 times a decade when that type of player comes around, maybe. We've yet to land a game changer. We need 3 or 4. Pardon me for not being happy tanking for 7 or 8 more years hoping to land the next Crosby.

2016 - Matthews - game changer
2015 - McDavid - game changer
2014 - Ekblad - good player
2013 - MacKinnon - game changer
2012 - Yakupov - bust
2011 - RNH - good player
2010 - Hall - game changer
2009 - Tavares - game changer
2008 - Stamkos - game changer
2007 - Kane - game changer

I'd say closer to 7/10 of the known #1 picks recently are veritable game changers rather than "1 or 2". No team has 3-4 of these guys (outside Tampa or Toronto) and besides Aho/Svechnikov aren't too far off.

I don't think anyone is suggesting tanking for 7-8 years either. Most in the hockey world consider Jack Hughes and Kaapo Kakko to be on the "potential game changer" end. That draft is in 6 months and the Canes spot will be determined by the next 46 games (+ a lottery).

 

[DougieSmash]

The problem is that Hughes is far from superstar. He's more like Hischier, RHN and etc than Crosby.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

2016 - Matthews - game changer
2015 - McDavid - game changer
2014 - Ekblad - good player
2013 - MacKinnon - game changer
2012 - Yakupov - bust
2011 - RNH - good player
2010 - Hall - game changer
2009 - Tavares - game changer
2008 - Stamkos - game changer
2007 - Kane - game changer

I'd say closer to 7/10 of the known #1 picks recently are veritable game changers rather than "1 or 2". No team has 3-4 of these guys (outside Tampa or Toronto) and besides Aho/Svechnikov aren't too far off.

I don't think anyone is suggesting tanking for 7-8 years either. Most in the hockey world consider Jack Hughes and Kaapo Kakko to be on the "potential game changer" end. That draft is in 6 months and the Canes spot will be determined by the next 46 games (+ a lottery).

The examples given earlier were Crosby and Ovechkin.

THOSE are generational, game changer type players. Ekblad, Hall.....uh, no.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this. If it's the wrong thread, please accept my apologies.

As a fan who isn't that familiar with the Canes, I wonder why they aren't succeeding more. I think they have one of the best group of youngish blueliners, some really good forwards like Aho, Teravainen and Staal. Admittedly, its a small sample set but, Rask always looks great against Columbus when I see him.

When I watch the Canes they almost seem a mirror image of the Blue Jackets other than Bobrovsky.

Is it just goaltending? What's wrong?

 

[Svechhammer]

I'm just saying....

If we go into 2019-2020 with a offensive core of Aho, Svech, and Hughes with a defensive core of Slavin and Pesce, we're well on our way to being good in the near future. If that means maybe dumping as much of the rest of the pieces as we can to clean house and assure we have the best odds for that reality to hit, then it might be worth it. If we can make that happen by collecting future 1st and 2nd round picks, even better.

When I think about it, if you were looking to tank the 2018 season after hitting the 2nd OA pick, moving Waddell to GM and an inexperienced Brindy as coach is a great way to set yourself up for that. Then trading away quality players such as Hanifin and Lindholm, two players who were good, but nothing more than long term role players who could be replaced down the line via FA once we're ready to compete is a great next step. Then, shipping out your best pure scorer right away (who you knew would probably bail in FA anyway) in Skinner would be an excellent way to finish it off.

So.... I'm wondering if we weren't tanking from the start.

 

[GoldiFox]

The problem is that Hughes is far from superstar. He's more like Hischier, RHN and etc than Crosby.

Pronman has Hughes at #2 behind McDavid in his “past decade” #1 OA redraft and Hughes has been called Patrick Kane at Center but everyone is entitled to their own view.

 

[DougieSmash]

Pronman has Hughes at #2 behind McDavid in his “past decade” redraft and Hughes has been called Patrick Kane at Center but everyone is entitled to their own view.

No one other than Pronman is sure that the kid will stick in the middle but he's behind McDavid? I'm not even sure he will be draft over Kaako.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Get back to me after Hughes has played a couple of NHL seasons. All this speculation is worth zilch.

 

[Svechhammer]

No one other than Pronman is sure that the kid will stick in the middle but he's behind McDavid? I'm not even sure he will be draft over Kaako.

I'd rather have Hughes over any offensive player on the organizational forward depth chart not named Aho, Svechnikov, and maybe Necas.

And its not even close

 

[HisIceness]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this. If it's the wrong thread, please accept my apologies.

As a fan who isn't that familiar with the Canes, I wonder why they aren't succeeding more. I think they have one of the best group of youngish blueliners, some really good forwards like Aho, Teravainen and Staal. Admittedly, its a small sample set but, Rask always looks great against Columbus when I see him.

When I watch the Canes they almost seem a mirror image of the Blue Jackets other than Bobrovsky.

Is it just goaltending? What's wrong?

Outside Aho/Svech/Slavin etc the roster is full of ECHL guys and veterans like Staal and Williams who just aren't good anymore.

I'll take your word that Rask looks good against Columbus but most nights he's a trainwreck and a big part of why we suck. He's being paid $4 million a year to do nothing.

The goaltending has actually gotten better since Darling was sent down. The goalscoring however is still a problem.

We also employ a coach who doesn't know what he is doing and even subtly admits it in postgame interviews.

 

[Canes]

Pronman has Hughes at #2 behind McDavid in his “past decade” redraft and Hughes has been called Patrick Kane at Center but everyone is entitled to their own view.

Pronman is always trying to be different with his rankings.

There seems to be some debate about whether he or Kappo will go #1 right now. If he were truly #2 behind McDavid, there would be no doubt at all.

 

[DougieSmash]

I'd rather have Hughes over any offensive player on the organizational forward depth chart not named Aho, Svechnikov, and maybe Necas.

And its not even close

Well, i agree. I'm just saying that not every #1 overall is recipe for success. I wouldn't pass on Hughes, just that he's not enough. We need more than Hughes, Aho and Svech. Hell, two of them are just a kids. We need better coach, better GM, better plan, better roster, better support group. You can't rely on 18-years old Hughes and on Svech. We need legit talent along with our homegrown core.