Tampa Bay Lightning have begun sale process.

[StreetHawk]

Dude bought the team for $170M in 2010...


What an investment.

Didn't TB sell 40% of their team about 18 months at a $1.4 billion valuation? So, at most there is 60% remaining, barring minority investors. So, a max of $1.2 billion from this valuation and the $560 mill from the 40% would give the owner $1.76 bill for the total of the 2 sales.

 

[LeafGrief]

$2bn for a sunbelt team? They do know the team won’t always be this good, right? This is the Ponzi scheme in action, there is no way the Lightning have that much future profit to justify this kind of valuation unless the NHL experiences massive growth and get a bonkers TV contract.

$2bn is bag holder money. Expansion fees and gambling ads don’t justify that valuation. The entire league did $6bn in revenue last year, one team is worth a third of the entire revenue? No way, half that goes to players before they even start looking at any operating costs. I think the Lightning had about 200m in revenue. Valuations should be based on expected profit.

 

[ToDavid]

$2bn for a sunbelt team? They do know the team won’t always be this good, right? This is the Ponzi scheme in action, there is no way the Lightning have that much future profit to justify this kind of valuation unless the NHL experiences massive growth and get a bonkers TV contract.

$2bn is bag holder money. Expansion fees and gambling ads don’t justify that valuation. The entire league did $6bn in revenue last year, one team is worth a third of the entire revenue? No way, half that goes to players before they even start looking at any operating costs. I think the Lightning had about 200m in revenue. Valuations should be based on expected profit.

Professional sports franchises have always had a vanity premium. You pay to join the club.

 

[Salsero1]

$2bn for a sunbelt team? They do know the team won’t always be this good, right? This is the Ponzi scheme in action, there is no way the Lightning have that much future profit to justify this kind of valuation unless the NHL experiences massive growth and get a bonkers TV contract.

$2bn is bag holder money. Expansion fees and gambling ads don’t justify that valuation. The entire league did $6bn in revenue last year, one team is worth a third of the entire revenue? No way, half that goes to players before they even start looking at any operating costs. I think the Lightning had about 200m in revenue. Valuations should be based on expected profit.

Traditionalist cry about southern teams not being successful enough. Southern teams show objective levels of success (measured by people smarter than you) and that's not good either?

The insecurity is insane.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Didn't TB sell 40% of their team about 18 months at a $1.4 billion valuation? So, at most there is 60% remaining, barring minority investors. So, a max of $1.2 billion from this valuation and the $560 mill from the 40% would give the owner $1.76 bill for the total of the 2 sales.

I dunno any of the full details or what happened.

All I know is in 2010 the team was sold for $170M and 14 years later it sounds like the teams going to sell for $2B, or at least that's the evaluated value of it.

Whatever happened in between then or whoever else is involved... Turning $170M into $2B in 14 years is simply phenomenal investment work for all parties involved.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Holding temporary control of operations is just to not spook the fanbase.

I don't like that we haven't heard who is involved in the new ownership group

FSG. They've decided to buy both the Pens and Lightning so that Sullivan can coach both teams.

 

[LeafGrief]

Professional sports franchises have always had a vanity premium. You pay to join the club.

Sure, but $2bn is the vanity premium gone absolutely haywire.

Traditionalist cry about southern teams not being successful enough. Southern teams show objective levels of success (measured by people smarter than you) and that's not good either?

The insecurity is insane.

You have completely and utterly misrepresented my point, as far as I can tell because my username has "Leaf" in it, or because of the word sunbelt. I am making a point about NHL business practice, not the viability of hockey in Florida.

The Lightning are an excellent franchise with a dedicated fanbase. You'll notice that I didn't slag them at all and made my argument entirely about league and team revenue, which are objective facts. What is not good is that the league's current practice of growth through expansion fees is causing these franchise valuations to shoot into the stratosphere, when the NHL simply does not have the kind of profitability now or in the future that justifies such a valuation. It's a bubble, or more deliberately a Ponzi scheme. None of this has anything to do with the Tampa Bay Lightning, their market, or their fans. Their owner is the wise one cashing in while the going is good, the new owner will be a bag holder.

I made similar arguments during the recent sale of the Senators.

 

[Voight]

No shocker they're worth double the amount the Sens are, that's what happens when you're successful.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Rangers, Hawks, Leafs, Habs, and other huge market owners will all high five each other if a sunbelt team can be sold for that much. That'd shoot up their franchise values even recognizing that the Bolts have more recent success than anyone.

It sets a floor value, but it doesn't do much for the high end. To lump Tampa as a sunbelt team is quite disingenuous, it really pales in comparison to true sunbelt teams like the Thrashers who struggled, Hurricanes, Coyotes, and Preds and by all metrics seems to be a top destination for free agents.

No shocker they're worth double the amount the Sens are, that's what happens when you're successful.

I think it has more to do with being in one of the most desirable living areas of the united states, and the sens being located in Canada, and a boring city in Canada to boot.

 

[Voight]

It sets a floor value, but it doesn't do much for the high end. To lump Tampa as a sunbelt team is quite disingenuous, it really pales in comparison to true sunbelt teams like the Thrashers who struggled, Hurricanes, Coyotes, and Preds and by all metrics seems to be a top destination for free agents.


I think it has more to do with being in one of the most desirable living areas of the united states, and the sens being located in Canada, and a boring city in Canada to boot.

That plays a part but ultimately people will pay more for successful teams (Ballmer overpaying for the Clippers aside).

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Jeff Vinik is one of the best things to happen to the Lightning and also has been huge for the whole Tampa area. New guy is going to have some big shoes to fill but hopefully comes in with the passion that Vinik had when he first came in. Vinik has been a near perfect owner, but honestly leaves with a stain the way he let his GM fumble Stamkos away.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

That's a damn good investment!

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Whatever happened in between then or whoever else is involved... Turning $170M into $2B in 14 years is simply phenomenal investment work for all parties involved.

It is important to note, however, that pro sport franchises are skyrocketing in value in every league in North America. I have no doubt the Bolts were well managed, but it is really due systemic issues that have led to the rise of Billionaires and insane wealth. These Billionaires are able to bid insane amounts on these teams that have really grown in cultural significance. Buying a sports franchise continues to not be a very good money generator relative to the amount paid into it.

That plays a part but ultimately people will pay more for successful teams (Ballmer overpaying for the Clippers aside).

I think its more about paying more for teams located in major cities rather than the success of the team. Billionaires will continue to be able to and have the desire to overpay for these teams because they aren't up for sale very often.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Didn't TB sell 40% of their team about 18 months at a $1.4 billion valuation? So, at most there is 60% remaining, barring minority investors. So, a max of $1.2 billion from this valuation and the $560 mill from the 40% would give the owner $1.76 bill for the total of the 2 sales.

I was thinking the same thing, until I read your post, no-one else seems to mention it.

 

[ThunderRoad]

Whatever happened to the shady Japanese golf course guy? Did he even turn out to be a real person or was that a Keyser Soze situation

No one ever met him according to Esposito...sounded more like it was a front for the Japanese Mob as crazy as it sounded. Organization has come from such strange beginnings to premiere franchise. And this news about a sale is not welcome one.

 

[StreetHawk]

I was thinking the same thing, until I read your post, no-one else seems to mention it.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/tampa-bay-lightning/news/lightning-likely-to-sell-minority-ownership-stake-at-record-1-4b-team-valuation

Here's an article from the Hockey News from 2023 about it. Doesn't mention the % sold, as the focus was on the 20% max of private equity firm can own of a team.

 

[LeafGrief]

It is important to note, however, that pro sport franchises are skyrocketing in value in every league in North America. I have no doubt the Bolts were well managed, but it is really due systemic issues that have led to the rise of Billionaires and insane wealth. These Billionaires are able to bid insane amounts on these teams that have really grown in cultural significance. Buying a sports franchise continues to not be a very good money generator relative to the amount paid into it.


I think its more about paying more for teams located in major cities rather than the success of the team. Billionaires will continue to be able to and have the desire to overpay for these teams because they aren't up for sale very often.

Classic bubble.

Billionaires are not immune to Ponzi schemes. The owners of the NY Mets bought into Bernie Madoff's. Billionaires are also not generally into splashing billions on vanity buys. Some level of overpayment makes sense, but when the valuations are this far into the stratosphere it's greed clouding their judgement. The current owner is going to make 1000% on his investment after just 14 years, they think they're buying solid gold, when in fact they're buying a middle-of-the-league revenue team in a niche sport that hasn't grown substantially in a decade.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Can FSG buy them and ship Sullivan to Tampa??

 

[Larry Hanson]

Should have held out for the maximum.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Wow

Dude bought the team for $170M in 2010...


What an investment.

Good investment for the owner.

Bro was playing chess

Lots of people finding out why we have lockouts.

 

[BlueSeal]

No shocker they're worth double the amount the Sens are, that's what happens when you're successful.

Circle gets the square!

 

[RickyLafleur]

And Ottawa fans thought the sale of the Senators franchise a year ago for $950 was impressive.

The Sun Belt out does them again.

You sure about that? If anything people were surprised they costed Andlauer almost 1B. You are obsessed with the Senators, and talk about them in unrelated threads constantly. Touch some grass buddy, its still summer.

 

[PredsV82]

This is going to make expansion almost irresistible to the current owners. Which sucks because 32 teams should be the absolute max for a major sports league

 

[Major4Boarding]

Whatever happened to the shady Japanese golf course guy? Did he even turn out to be a real person or was that a Keyser Soze situation

The rumor I heard was - he survived the Thanos Snap only to be unceremoniously cut down in the middle of a Tokyo alley by a dude named Ronin.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

The rumor I heard was - he survived the Thanos Snap only to be unceremoniously cut down in the middle of a Tokyo alley by a dude named Ronin.

Hate to tell you man... Ronin is a title, not a name, in Japan. And most Tokyo alleys don't have room to walk that well, let alone swing (or even unsheath) a sword.