Talk Slowly and Use Small Words, its the Michael Del Zotto Thread

[mulli25]

John Moore is better, and AV wants Falk in the lineup to add some grit. Thats why DZ sits.

In no universe is Moore a better player right now than Del Zotto

Moore had been nothing short of god awful for the vast majority of this season

 

[Fanned On It]

In no universe is Moore a better player right now than Del Zotto

Moore had been nothing short of god awful for the vast majority of this season

The majority? I don't know about that...

 

[Vickers8]

Falk looked like he really wanted a job tonight. He's a very good skater for a big guy. He also provides some toughness.

I agree, he made smart quick passes out of the zone and deserves to play the next game, I like his physicality

 

[SKjEi o2]

The majority? I don't know about that...

MDZ is better than Moore. I think AV is trying to send a message and also give Falk some playing time.

 

[eco's bones]

For some reason or another it's like AV has decided that DZ is going to be a right side defenseman. He could have as easily taken Moore out and put DZ on the left side but he didn't. DZ is a disaster waiting to happen on the right side IMO. I don't like him there. I was a bit skeptical about Falk on the right side but considering now that he's a pretty good skater for a big guy and that was his first game in a long while he did really well. He looked fairly comfortable. He was a lot more forceful moving guys away from our goalie than the usual. He kept a lot of plays alive in the offensive end even though he was on his backhand a lot.

This is the third time this season that DZ has been scratched--not Moore. We can only speculate why AV chooses him and not Moore? DZ has not been providing much offensively which is his bread and butter. Playing the wrong side I wouldn't think helps that. Moore is bigger and a better skater. Both are relatively the same age but Moore seems to have more potential at this point. Del Zotto's overall game has not been growing and on his wrong side it seems to me to have regressed. If AV has in mind for him to step up and out of his comfort zone it's apparently not been working to his satisfaction. Players have to find their niche within any team. AV seems to be telling DZ what his niche is going to be and it's 3rd pairing right side and DZ's struggling to fit in.

 

[ltrangerfan]

After yesterday's shutout...

Will Av's send DZ another message tonight and scratch him again?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

After yesterday's shutout...

Will Av's send DZ another message tonight and scratch him again?

I cant see any changes to the defense after a shutout. I thought Falk played well last night - added some much needed grit to the back end.

John Moore is a wonderful skater, but he still has a ton to learn when it comes to playing defense. Hes scary out there at times.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

I cant see any changes to the defense after a shutout. I thought Falk played well last night - added some much needed grit to the back end.

John Moore is a wonderful skater, but he still has a ton to learn when it comes to playing defense. Hes scary out there at times.

He loves to do that stupid pivot move out of Dzone. I guarantee thats gonna cost us some goals down the road unless he stops doing it. Its a real bad habit..

 

[trilobyte]

Keeping things simple is what I want to see from the bottom pairings especially. MDZ still, to this day, can get too fancy and cough up the puck when he has solid possession and no pressure, and then he goes and puts the pressure on himself by trying puckhandling moves he cannot carry off.
Last night's shutout involved some fairly simple play by Falk. No, he was not perfect but at least I thought he conciously stayed within his sphere of capability. I am in no way convinced that Falk is a serviceable dman for the future this season, as this was one game, one game in which the Rangers played a good team game with what appeared to be good communication going on between them.
It will be interesting to see Falk's play when the team is not carrying the puck as well as they did last night.

 

[Mikos87]

After yesterday's shutout...

Will Av's send DZ another message tonight and scratch him again?

Falk's played 3 games, and the Rangers have had 2 shutouts, and we are faced with the same scenario. I'd go with the fresh athlete in DZ, maybe bench Moore for his gaffs and lack of offensive production. Really fire up those guys to try and push for top 4 minutes.

#StayHumblePlayHungry

 

[LittleKev6D9]

In the great debate that is John Moore vs. MDZ: Who sucks more?, I think we can all agree on one thing. Those two on the same pair is a disaster.

I really like the idea of a player like Justin Falk, a stay at home d-man with a lot of grit to his game, in that 6th D-man spot. Similar to Erskine, Carkner, and Engelland. I just don't think Falk is a good enough defensemen to be any game player.

I was hoping McIlrath would get a call up this season, cause that role fits him to a T, but it really depends if he's ready for a call up or not.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

For some reason or another it's like AV has decided that DZ is going to be a right side defenseman. He could have as easily taken Moore out and put DZ on the left side but he didn't. DZ is a disaster waiting to happen on the right side IMO. I don't like him there. I was a bit skeptical about Falk on the right side but considering now that he's a pretty good skater for a big guy and that was his first game in a long while he did really well. He looked fairly comfortable. He was a lot more forceful moving guys away from our goalie than the usual. He kept a lot of plays alive in the offensive end even though he was on his backhand a lot.

This is the third time this season that DZ has been scratched--not Moore. We can only speculate why AV chooses him and not Moore? DZ has not been providing much offensively which is his bread and butter. Playing the wrong side I wouldn't think helps that. Moore is bigger and a better skater. Both are relatively the same age but Moore seems to have more potential at this point. Del Zotto's overall game has not been growing and on his wrong side it seems to me to have regressed. If AV has in mind for him to step up and out of his comfort zone it's apparently not been working to his satisfaction. Players have to find their niche within any team. AV seems to be telling DZ what his niche is going to be and it's 3rd pairing right side and DZ's struggling to fit in.

From what AV said (it's in Ranger Rants yesterday), it's more about expectations:

He’s in my estimation trying hard and working on different aspects of his game but, at this time, I’ve been told there’s more to his game than what I’ve seen and we need that from him,†Vigneault said. “We feel tonight we need to make a change there and we’re hoping he’ll react the same way (Mats) Zuccarello did. Zucc was fighting it a little bit and he took it upon himself to get his game where we need it to be and he’s been one of our better players the last six or seven games. Hopefully Michael will react the same way. What I’ve been told he is as a player I’ll be able to see on a more consistent basis.â€

But is Del Zotto running out of chances with the Rangers?

“It’s a long season, we’re not even at the 20-game mark,†Vigneault said. “But I’ve been told he’s a better player than what I’ve seen and our group needs that.â€

Doesn't seem like he has the higher expectations for Moore. It's really too bad Del Zotto is the one who's been stuck playing out of position.

 

[SKjEi o2]

From what AV said (it's in Ranger Rants yesterday), it's more about expectations:



Doesn't seem like he has the higher expectations for Moore. It's really too bad Del Zotto is the one who's been stuck playing out of position.

Exactly, to be honest, it's unfair to expect Del Zotto to play well when he is not being given the opportunity to play his natural position. Put him on the left side or trade him for an actual RHD. Waste of talent IMO.

 

[eco's bones]

Probably back in the lineup on the right side on tuesday.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Probably back in the lineup on the right side on tuesday.

Agreed. Would like to see Moore sit a game and let DZ play the left side for a game.

 

[Cake or Death]

From what AV said (it's in Ranger Rants yesterday), it's more about expectations:

Doesn't seem like he has the higher expectations for Moore. It's really too bad Del Zotto is the one who's been stuck playing out of position.

It makes more sense to have MDZ on his off side, as he is a lot more experienced than Moore and should therefore adjust easier. I played both sides. IMHO, the switch, when needed, is not uber difficult. Yes, it's a tad weird initially, but a player should get a feel for it in a handful of games and then slowly settle in. If they don't, I almost think it's more mental.

Psychologically, I like AV's approach. When you set a high expectation on someone you can really see what they're made of deep down. People with successful, positive, winning attitudes tend to take it as a challenge and fight tooth and nail to rise to the challenge. People with an opposite inner mindset tend to wilt in that situation. It may seem harsh, or whatever, but how MDZ responds can be telling in terms of what his mental constitution is. MZA and Kreider were docked. Neither made excuses. They manned up on it, and both took the reigns and picked their games up.

AV's methods are interesting. If your cream isn't rising to the expected level, he pours another cup. If your cream then rises to the right level, you play. If not, he dumps you in the sink again and lets you re-think things. The old saying, 'under pressure some men break, some break records' seems to be the mindset to some degree. But we had some guys who were sat, didn't like the taste of it, took ownership of it, and came back with a purpose. Whether MDZ does this or not is entirely up to him.

 

[Kwayry]

The other DZ thread was closed but I am copying over SA16's excellent work

Thanks for this site -31-. Amending my previous data to now include ALL situations and for players with at least 48 attempts (now I have only 96 players instead of 127? Not sure how that is unless either I filtered something wrong before or for some reason these sites have different data [maybe they had different filters based on showing players based on games played or TOI] but in any case it won't change the conclusions - just the sample)

1. Hunwick 82.6% (69 attempts 57 on goal)
96. Hamhuis 59.4 (105 attempts 62 on goal)

26. Stralman 73.3% (90 attempts 66 on goal)
41. McDonagh 70.1% (117 attempts 83 on goal)
78. Del Zotto 66.3% (122 attempts 81 on goal)
84. Girardi 63.8% (127 attempts 81 on goal)

Average: 69.8% (10240 attempts 7147 on goal)

The only conclusion I can make here is it looks like DZ really struggles with his shot on the powerplay while at even strength he is relatively fine. Hard to say much based on only 32 PP attempts (maybe slightly less due to possible shorthanded attempts) Unfortunately extraskater doesn't have data prior to last year so I can't go check his whole career

Edit: Difference in sample size is because extraskater filters for min 36 games last year.


Sure

For all situations from last season:

Pietrangelo: 62% (150 attempts 93 on goal)
Byfuglien: 71.2% (198 attempts 142 on goal)
Doughty: 67.5% (169 attempts 114 on goal)
Subban:: 75% (168 attempts 128 on goal)

One thing to note is these guys shoot A LOT more. Obviously do not take this data as 100% accurate and meaningful because it's still small sample size but it's the best we have to work with. It's just numbers reflecting what happened last year not showing what will happen.

For ease you can get all the data here: http://www.extraskater.com/players/s...=D&season=2012 Just take FF and Shots and do Shots/FF for shot on goal%.

 

[n8]

MDZ needs to be reunited on the left side with his buddy Stralman again.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

He’s in my estimation trying hard and working on different aspects of his game but, at this time, I’ve been told there’s more to his game than what I’ve seen and we need that from him,†Vigneault said.

Vigneault hasn't been here too long. Pretty soon, he'll start noticing that Sather overrates most of his players.

 

[offdacrossbar]

even if moore and mdz are both playing equally poor- which i dont agree with, i take the better skater every time and moore is a gifted skater.

del zotto always looks like hes skating with gifts....

dude is slow like sloth.

and falk has atleast earned another game. he played well.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

It makes more sense to have MDZ on his off side, as he is a lot more experienced than Moore and should therefore adjust easier. I played both sides. IMHO, the switch, when needed, is not uber difficult. Yes, it's a tad weird initially, but a player should get a feel for it in a handful of games and then slowly settle in. If they don't, I almost think it's more mental.

Psychologically, I like AV's approach. When you set a high expectation on someone you can really see what they're made of deep down. People with successful, positive, winning attitudes tend to take it as a challenge and fight tooth and nail to rise to the challenge. People with an opposite inner mindset tend to wilt in that situation. It may seem harsh, or whatever, but how MDZ responds can be telling in terms of what his mental constitution is. MZA and Kreider were docked. Neither made excuses. They manned up on it, and both took the reigns and picked their games up.

AV's methods are interesting. If your cream isn't rising to the expected level, he pours another cup. If your cream then rises to the right level, you play. If not, he dumps you in the sink again and lets you re-think things. The old saying, 'under pressure some men break, some break records' seems to be the mindset to some degree. But we had some guys who were sat, didn't like the taste of it, took ownership of it, and came back with a purpose. Whether MDZ does this or not is entirely up to him.

I disagree--hockey players in the NHL have problems all the time when they are shifted away from their normal position. We've all seen it. There's very little room for error in the NHL and going against what's natural for a player can mean there is a large difference in production and level of play. Del Zotto wasn't moved over because it put in a better position to succeed, he got moved because the organization lacks the proper player to put in that position. This experiment has been going on since last season and it's not working up to this point.

As for AV's methods--it would be nice to see it done consistantly--John Moore has played erratically, Pouliot is wandering around aimlessly game after game--the only thing he's in the top 2 on the team is penalty minutes.

 

[Miller Time NYR]

Don't understand why Moore has gotten the time on the left side all season, let del zotto play on his strong side and get his confidence back in his game, Moore skates better and he makes up a lot quicker when he gets beat let him play out of position and see how he does.

 

[Raspewtin]

Del Zotto should play against Boston, and Moore should sit.

Not ready to take Falk out, he's played well, and we could use him against the Bs.

 

[ltrangerfan]

Here are some random thoughts.

At this point, Imo, when MDZ and Moore are both playing their best game MDZ is superior.

I truly don't believe that Moore has a dramatic upside to his game. Therefore benching Moore does little.

The problem with MDZ , imo, is that his decision making too often is too costly for a contender. He is still making some fundamentally poor judgement on a regular basis despite being a fifth year player.

My guess is that we are seeing MDZ's final benching before a decision needs to be made regarding his future as a Ranger. He will be a free agent soon and looking for a substantial new contract? How much will the Rangers pay a 3rd pairing defenseman while wondering which MDZ will show up?
Coming off the benching MDZ needs to really up his game or I suspect his LT future with the Rangers is nil.

Moore is in a different situation. His contract commands a relatively small hit and so the team can be a bit more patient in watching to see if their is much upside to his game. If nothing else Moore can serve as a placeholder until someone else comes along at the right price to displace him.

 

[Cake or Death]

I disagree--hockey players in the NHL have problems all the time when they are shifted away from their normal position. We've all seen it. There's very little room for error in the NHL and going against what's natural for a player can mean there is a large difference in production and level of play. Del Zotto wasn't moved over because it put in a better position to succeed, he got moved because the organization lacks the proper player to put in that position. This experiment has been going on since last season and it's not working up to this point.

As for AV's methods--it would be nice to see it done consistantly--John Moore has played erratically, Pouliot is wandering around aimlessly game after game--the only thing he's in the top 2 on the team is penalty minutes.

Well, I can't sit here and say you're wrong, because it's an opinion based thing, and there is an abundance of cases to support both angles. Most of the guys I know did find shifts from, say, LW to RW much more difficult than D I knew that flipped sides. How you shoot, enter the zone, pass, drive behind the net all change dramatically for wings when they shift side. D, to me at least, seemed more, do I hold the puck in along the boards with my stick or my skate.

I will give you that some guys simply cannot make switches regardless of what they are... and I still think that is very mental after x number of games far more than it is mechanics. But to each his own on their opinion on this.