Taking stock of where we are

[JungleBeat]

Outside of Brady and Drake, this roster does not have legitimate wingers who drive play. And although the centre depth is fantastic, it's far from durable. This team's forwards are, today and into the future, its weakness.

Does Brady really drive play? He’s more of a complimentary piece to a very good centre. He can’t carry a line and playmake.

 

[PlayOn]

Does Brady really drive play? He’s more of a complimentary piece to a very good centre. He can’t carry a line and playmake.

Yes he does. Any line Brady is on is productive. Just watch Norris and Batherson without him 5v5 if you wonder if he drives play.

He’s been on the best line the Sens ice for years now, year after year. It’s not a coincidence. He creates space for players which is a huge piece of making any line click.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

In a weird way I think Norris and Batherson's great 2021-2022 seasons may have done more harm than good for this team long-term. It convinced management the rebuild was done(hence Dorion trading 1st rounders) when in reality we needed another high end forward.

 

[DrEasy]

In a weird way I think Norris and Batherson's great 2021-2022 seasons may have done more harm than good for this team long-term. It convinced management the rebuild was done(hence Dorion trading 1st rounders) when in reality we needed another high end forward.

I think it's their injuries that quite literally harmed them (and the team) more than anything. They're not the same players they were pre-injury.

 

[Boud]

I think it's their injuries that quite literally harmed them (and the team) more than anything. They're not the same players they were pre-injury.

For Norris when healthy I think he looks very similar. Right before his injury he started playing differently than he did to start the season. It felt like he turned the corner a little bit and was playing more confidently. He still doesn’t take slappers or one-timers so that definitely affects his game but he can still be very good. Him and Pinto were dynamic on the PK and overall he was playing really well and fast. I think there has always been questions about him being worth his contract, even when it was signed, but if he can stay healthy and play at his best he will be worth it. Especially with the cap going up.

For Batherson it’s really hard to tell what’s going on with him. He’s always been incredibly streaky outside of that half season before the Dell injury. That season he did look like a completely different player. I have a feeling he’s just not that good. He has all the tools to be an all-star player but he just doesn’t have that extra gear in him. Some nights he looks great but half of the nights he literally doesn’t do anything. Last game is the perfect example. We have 3 forwards out, it’s his time to shine and he comes out of the game with 0 shots on goal(!).

I wouldn’t say he’s lazy but there’s just something missing with him. He’s gone after his contract is over anyways. No way I would give him 7M+ and that’s likely what he’s getting. I have a strong sentiment he’s gone this offseason. It’s time to capitalize on his value when teams will see 2 more years at 4.9M and he’s not driving the play enough for us.

To me Batherson needs to go. He’s not good enough. He’s a conplimentary player that doesn’t do enough when he’s not putting up points. I’ve always been a big Batherson fan and I think he could give a lot more. I would swap him for a Bennett type player in an instant. We need someone who plays the same style and that brings value when not scoring. I see Batherson as the perfect type of player for a contending team. Put him with a Barkov/Mackinnon/McDavid type player and he’ll give you 90 points.

For us we just need that well rounded 50 point player that plays the exact same game every night.

 

[Yak]

For Norris when healthy I think he looks very similar. Right before his injury he started playing differently than he did to start the season. It felt like he turned the corner a little bit and was playing more confidently. He still doesn’t take slappers or one-timers so that definitely affects his game but he can still be very good. Him and Pinto were dynamic on the PK and overall he was playing really well and fast. I think there has always been questions about him being worth his contract, even when it was signed, but if he can stay healthy and play at his best he will be worth it. Especially with the cap going up.

For Batherson it’s really hard to tell what’s going on with him. He’s always been incredibly streaky outside of that half season before the Dell injury. That season he did look like a completely different player. I have a feeling he’s just not that good. He has all the tools to be an all-star player but he just doesn’t have that extra gear in him. Some nights he looks great but half of the nights he literally doesn’t do anything. Last game is the perfect example. We have 3 forwards out, it’s his time to shine and he comes out of the game with 0 shots on goal(!).

I wouldn’t say he’s lazy but there’s just something missing with him. He’s gone after his contract is over anyways. No way I would give him 7M+ and that’s likely what he’s getting. I have a strong sentiment he’s gone this offseason. It’s time to capitalize on his value when teams will see 2 more years at 4.9M and he’s not driving the play enough for us.

To me Batherson needs to go. He’s not good enough. He’s a conplimentary player that doesn’t do enough when he’s not putting up points. I’ve always been a big Batherson fan and I think he could give a lot more. I would swap him for a Bennett type player in an instant. We need someone who plays the same style and that brings value when not scoring. I see Batherson as the perfect type of player for a contending team. Put him with a Barkov/Mackinnon/McDavid type player and he’ll give you 90 points.

For us we just need that well rounded 50 point player that plays the exact same game every night.

Batherson has been a bargain. You are not going to get a player like him at that price. You definitely keep your ears open to see if there's something out there. However, you're not going to probably replace him with the same type of output at that price.

I totally agree that he disappears for a long periods of games and long parts of a game. He is completely invisible.

Putting him and Norris on the same line with Brady is the only way to hold the both of them accountable because Brady drives the play and drags them into playing better. It's really the only way to make sure that Norris and batherson are on top of their game. When they play with Timmy they're just waiting for Timmy to feed them the puck. When they play with Brady they know they got to get involved because Brady's going to force it.

We're in a really weird situation for both of them. I'm not sure we get the value for what they're worth to the team and the chemistry, but they definitely can be floaters very often. Don't get me wrong when these guys are on. They're hot but they are not consistent. I understand guys are not going to be consistent all the time but it's not like these guys are very complementary to Brady or Timmy all the time. If you put them with some of the greatest players in the league mcdavid's going to bounce pucks off of you and they're going to go in. Our great players are not that level.

Staois has his work cut out for him. I'm not even sure anymore. We bring in a great goalie and he starts getting injured and not playing at his level. We have some great players but they're not playing up to their potential. We have some really great defensemen but times we look like we have all rookies on this team. Certainly frustrating. I guess that's just hockey.

 

[mysens]

The team had an off day yesterday and were at the annual Senators Foundation Gala, they looked like they had a great time and were relieved to spend time with their significant others. Tight bunch off the ice. They were all pumped to get the whole team back and healthy and taste the playoff spot.

 

[OD99]

The team had an off day yesterday and were at the annual Senators Foundation Gala, they looked like they had a great time and were relieved to spend time with their significant others. Tight bunch off the ice. They were all pumped to get the whole team back and healthy and taste the playoff spot.

That's great, but if it doesn't translate to the ice then it's just a bunch of athletes having a night with some well off fans.

If there isn't improvement, quickly, then all the good vibes earlier means absolutely nothing.

 

[lancepitlick]

Does Brady really drive play? He’s more of a complimentary piece to a very good centre. He can’t carry a line and plplaymake.

He does not. He's like a Dave Anderchyuck that hits/fights. Great player, but he needs pieces around him to put him in advantageous positions.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

In a weird way I think Norris and Batherson's great 2021-2022 seasons may have done more harm than good for this team long-term. It convinced management the rebuild was done(hence Dorion trading 1st rounders) when in reality we needed another high end forward.

That's the trickiest part of a rebuild...remaining patient when a team looks like it's starting to turn the corner. And we definitely flubbed up on that part of it.

 

[slamigo]

The slide will continue. I don't think this group has the mentality for winning. The country club needs a shake up.

 

[Xspyrit]

I would not make the major changes you are proposing. I agree with targeting "speed" and "skill", but I also want some additional physicality and toughness added to the roster.

You said"- Keep Stutzle, Pinto, Greig, Ostapchuk, Reinhardt, Sanderson, Kleven, Matinpalo, JBD, Merilainen" and Giroux.

That means trade or dump "Ullmark, Forsberg, Tkatchuk, Norris, Batherson, Perron, Amadio, Gregor, Cousins, MacEwen, Gaudette, Chabot, Zub, Jensen & Hamonic".

I would keep the following 15 players: Tkatchuk, Stutzle, Pinto, Greig, Norris, Batherson, Chabot, Sanderson, Kleven, Jensen, Zub, Matinpalo, Ullmark, Merillainen and Giroux at $3-$3.5M. We would only need 5 more players for a full NHL roster.

That means trade or dump or send to AHL: Forsberg, Sogaard, Reinhardt, Perron, Amadio, MacEwen, Hamonic, JBD, Gaudette, Hamonic, Cousins, Gregor.

I might sign Cousins and Gregor at $1M or less as 4th liners. I would want a tough policeman type player to replace MaEwen; someone like Olivier.

Most importantly I would want to add a top 6 player, preferably a center with playmaking and high puck control & management skills (move Norris to wing) or a highly skilled right-wing to play with Stutzle.

The strategy is to try to make the playoffs and challenge for the SC over the next 3 seasons. If that fails, blow it up after season 3.

Frankly, I don't know what they should or not do but based on how this team has progressed since the 2020 draft, it's hard to see the potential anymore. The pool is rated as one of the worst in the NHL, Giroux and Jensen are getting older, Perron seems done, the team has very little cap flexibility. Yes the cap rises next year but so it will for all the other teams.

If all they do is replace "Forsberg, Sogaard, Reinhardt, Perron, Amadio, MacEwen, Hamonic, JBD, Gaudette, Hamonic, Cousins, Gregor" by other players like that, it won't accomplish much, it doesn't create much cap space and we don't really have assets to acquire Brandon Hagels (when TB got him from Chicago)

The strategy is to try to make the playoffs already sounds underwhelming I doubt we could even come close to challenge for the SC over the next 3 seasons. Other teams are trying to build perennial contenders. That's what should have happened but I lost the faith after I saw what Dorion did just before the 2020-21 season. It could have been turned around but it took too long to fire him (team sale, etc)

So that's why I am talking about a possible huge retool. What is the plan if they miss the playoffs? Just stand pat and try again next year? I don't even know how they could improve the team next season without making something drastic.

Still hoping for a miracle. Then for Staios to do magic next off-season.

 

[Alex1234]

In a weird way I think Norris and Batherson's great 2021-2022 seasons may have done more harm than good for this team long-term. It convinced management the rebuild was done(hence Dorion trading 1st rounders) when in reality we needed another high end forward.

Chabot and Brady asked for help
And Morion decided it was time to add ADB and Chychrun for 1st rounder we needed to draft

"During their respective exit interviews, both Tkachuk and Thomas Chabot voiced their desire to be surrounded by more talent next season. But Dorion admitted that Chabot was actually a little more vocal about the subject than Tkachuk."

Senators locker cleanout: Matt Murray reveals concussion, Thomas Chabot speaks up and Pierre Dorion vows to spend more

Josh Norris' contract talks will be Pierre Dorian's focus as he enters an offseason where he will have more financial flexibility.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Tuna99]

Call it delusion but im not worried yet, we have a favorable schedule with some important games coming up

Sharks
Capitals
Blackhawks
Rangers
Redwings

The sharks and blackhawks games should be wins. The rangers and redwings games are four point games where ideally we take both. We have a couple of days before the sharks game so hopefully the trio of brady/norris/pinto are back. Now if the next 5 games go poorly then we need to have a different conversation.

I’m with you, I’m not worried. They will make the playoffs and I don’t care if it takes until OT of game 82 to do it - these guys will do it.

My one surprise is Ullmark’s on ice attitude recently, he looks sometimes like the big kid who gets bullied, he is dragging his ass around and he looks small. Obviously he isn’t seeing the puck well and his positioning is off right now, but want more leadership from him, not a ton of fight from the blue paint. If Binnington was the recent example of fighting for every puck, Ullmark looks very far from that fighter right now

 

[Tuna99]

The slide will continue. I don't think this group has the mentality for winning. The country club needs a shake up.

Kicking your own team in the shins after they have completely turned their game around and are suffering from injuries - not mental lapses or laziness IMO you’re not assessing the team correctly right now, your only focusing on the last 5 games and not the entire season because they are not mentally weak or a privileged group at all, the opposite IMO, they are coachable, they stick together, they believe and they are focused

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

In a weird way I think Norris and Batherson's great 2021-2022 seasons may have done more harm than good for this team long-term. It convinced management the rebuild was done(hence Dorion trading 1st rounders) when in reality we needed another high end forward.

I mean we did get two high-end forwards, but Dorion not researching enough regarding DeBrincat was awful.

I wish we went after Sean Monahan that season, Norris going down and having Monahan as an insurance C would have been much more important, and the fact is we would have gotten to keep our 2022 1st, along with getting an additional 2024 and 2025 1st (Monahan went for a first last season and we were clearly sellers).

 

[Blotto71]

Kicking your own team in the shins after they have completely turned their game around and are suffering from injuries - not mental lapses or laziness IMO you’re not assessing the team correctly right now, your only focusing on the last 5 games and not the entire season because they are not mentally weak or a privileged group at all, the opposite IMO, they are coachable, they stick together, they believe and they are focused

I'm not so sure you're right on this one. The Montreal game was a team that, though down players for sure, showed up completely unprepared to play. Just last week Green had to stop practice several times to complain about the lack of intensity and pace. No, there is something off with this squad.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Tonight is where we begin the run again. Almost a full roster and Brady as a C who needs to win. Watch. Next 10 games, 6-3-1

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Tonight is where we begin the run again. Almost a full roster and Brady as a C who needs to win. Watch. Next 10 games, 6-3-1

Hopefully with players returning to the lineup, we’ll see our players slotted better and reduce the need to fill holes with AHL level players. That should raise the level of play. There’s been lots of talk about moving a number of players, but perhaps with a healthier lineup & the resulting (hopefully) better play, things will look different and things will settle down.

 

[Tuna99]

I'm not so sure you're right on this one. The Montreal game was a team that, though down players for sure, showed up completely unprepared to play. Just last week Green had to stop practice several times to complain about the lack of intensity and pace. No, there is something off with this squad.

Well we have a month to find out who tje real Sens are.

I believe in this team and I think they more than just a playoff team, I think they are a threat to go deep.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Moneypuck has us at 50% to make the playoffs. Before the 5 game slide we were over 70%.

I guess I’ll take 50%?

Frustrating though. If we miss by a couple of points, how many winnable games did we piss away? How many games were stolen? Compared to how many games we stole (not many). That will be the difference, that’s why I’m frustrated. We should be in a much better spot going into this last stretch.

 

[Blotto71]

Well we have a month to find out who tje real Sens are.

I believe in this team and I think they more than just a playoff team, I think they are a threat to go deep.

I respect your opinion and hope you are correct!