Value of: Tage Thompson

[Lafleurs Guy]

Thompson for Caufield would be horrendous for Buffalo. Brutal.

Similar production from different sized players. But Caufield is three years younger that would be the only reason.

 

[Beerz]

Similar production from different sized players. But Caufield is three years younger that would be the only reason.

Caufield is a midget winger who we have in spades. Thompson is our only producing Center currently.

No..not only reason.

Caufield has never even hit 30 goals. Nobody cares about pace. When you're not on the ice you are not producing.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

Thompson for Caufield would be horrendous for Buffalo. Brutal.

A 6'7 Center on track for 40+ goals vs a similarly producing hobbit winger. Value seems close to me, although maybe I am catching the plague of cognitive dissonance that apparently infects most Habs fans.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Caufield is a midget winger who we have in spades. Thompson is our only producing Center currently.

No..not only reason.

I get it. I wouldn't make the trade from either side.

Caufield has never even hit 30 goals. Nobody cares about pace. When you're not on the ice you are not producing.

Correct. He's never hit 30 goals. But he will this year.

Caring about pace is a matter of what's being looked at. If I'm comparing two players and say whose better, I'm going to look at end results and pace is secondary. You're not a 30 or 40 goal scorer until you actually do it.

But if I'm looking at future production - especially with younger players - then pace matters a whole lot more. As an example here, Thompson didn't do anything until he was 24 years old. Caufield isn't even 24 yet. Yeah, size difference, center... I don't know why Buffalo would make the trade. But I don't make the trade from Montreal's side either. They aren't going to be competing for at least two three years. By then CC is 26,27 years old and Thompson's 30,31... so why do this?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

A 6'7 Center on track for 40+ goals vs a similarly producing hobbit winger. Value seems close to me, although maybe I am catching the plague of cognitive dissonance that apparently infects most Habs fans.

Future value vs present. Thompson being in his prime now is wasted in Montreal.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Yes? Skill guy with tons of foot speed with 0 physicality and incredibly soft. Hit or miss effort shift to shift.

You literally do not know what you’re talking about but that’s par for the course

 

[tsujimoto74]

I have no idea why they'd want to move on from Thompson. Great player with lots of upside.

Thompson for Suzuki or is a sideways move for both clubs. Thompson for Caufield would make sense for Buffalo as they produce similarly when healthy but Caufield is three years younger. I don't know why Montreal would do this though because they aren't in a win it now position. If they were, then it might make sense as Thompson has the production and size.

Swapping a 6’6” center for an undersized winger who scores at similar rates when healthy (but who has never stayed healthy enough to pot 40, or even 30, in a season) is absolutely not an upgrade, or even a lateral move. Thompson is significantly more valuable.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Swapping a 6’6” center for an undersized winger who scores at similar rates when healthy (but who has never stayed healthy enough to pot 40 in a season) is absolutely not an upgrade.

I didn't say it was.

I said I wouldn't do it from either side. I said I don't know why Buffalo would trade Thompson at all. I wouldn't.

If I'm Buffalo, I stay the course. I don't trade any of those guys away. They should stick with the rebuild. All they've done is hurt themselves by letting young talent go.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I didn't say it was.

I said I wouldn't do it from either side. I said I don't know why Buffalo would trade Thompson at all.

That’s the neat thing, is we wouldn’t — unless someone offered something *really* stupid for him — and yet here we are with all these threads about players Buffalo isn’t trading.

 

[Beerz]

I get it. I wouldn't make the trade from either side.

Correct. He's never hit 30 goals. But he will this year.

Caring about pace is a matter of what's being looked at. If I'm comparing two players and say whose better, I'm going to look at end results and pace is secondary. You're not a 30 or 40 goal scorer until you actually do it.

But if I'm looking at future production - especially with younger players - then pace matters a whole lot more. As an example here, Thompson didn't do anything until he was 24 years old. Caufield isn't even 24 yet. Yeah, size difference, center... I don't know why Buffalo would make the trade. But I don't make the trade from Montreal's side either. They aren't going to be competing for at least two three years. By then CC is 26,27 years old and Thompson's 30,31... so why do this?

He will hit 30 this year if he stays on the ice. That is a big if.

I have been one of Tage Thompsons biggest critics for years and you are making me defend him.

Take away any situational rub that comes along with where a particular team is in a rebuild and 99% of rational fans are going to overwhelmingly take Tage over Cole. No questions asked.

But at least got you to reverse course on your this would be good from Buffalos perspective take.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That’s the neat thing, is we wouldn’t — unless someone offered something *really* stupid for him — and yet here we are with all these threads about players Buffalo isn’t trading.

I guess it comes down to ownership. What is it they're trying to do? I don't know.

I will say that the worst thing Buffalo can do is be impatient and go for a quick fix. Doing this will only exacerbate things. They've got a bunch of young talent and I'd just ride it out. Yeah it's been 13 years but they have undermined their rebuild by losing players like Eichel and Reinhart along the way. That's not rebuilding. And trading somebody like Power or Dahlin or whatever would be foolish as well.

Thompson's a little older but he's a key cog and you need some stabiliity. He'll still be good in a few years and if they really want to trade him they can do it later. I wouldn't trade him now.

As for Montreal, I wouldn't trade Suzuki or Caufield. Suzuki's a solid two way guy who I think is going to be around 80-90 points. Caufield is just coming into his prime and will likely be a 40-50 goal guy with regularity if he can stay healthy. You don't trade that away, you add to it.

 

[Habby4Life]

Swapping a 6’6” center for an undersized winger who scores at similar rates when healthy (but who has never stayed healthy enough to pot 40, or even 30, in a season) is absolutely not an upgrade, or even a lateral move. Thompson is significantly more valuable.

Tage is more valuable, it’s not even close. Big PPG center who HAS scored 40 versus a talent small winger who has done niether. If everything is the same, a C is always more valued than a winger. In this case, nothing is the same, Tage is better in all aspects.

Buffalo would hang up the phone laughing if MTL offered CC straight up for Tage. So they should.

MTL could not afford what it would take try get Tage. Unless some team makes an incredible offer Buff should keep Tage, guys with his size and production aren’t easy to get.

 

[CowbellConray]

Caufield is just not in the same level as a Thompson talent. PP driven winger who is a 60-65 point player on an average year. This year is his closest year to PPG, but he is shooting 20%, which is almost double his normal %.

Thompson is simply at another tier of talent. He may be older, but his production and contract are simply too strong to value these guys similarly.

If we are talking about a package with Caufield + Guhle I'd listen and consider, but Montreal isn't going to part with that to bring Thompson in.

Regardless, Thompson should and would only be dealt in a 1 for 1 prime years player swap, not a futures deal. Unless we are talking unprotected top 5 pick this year.

Thompson for 2025 Montreal 1st + Demidov is something I'd consider if we are talking purely futures, but it's quite an overpay.

Montreal and Buffalo dont line up well for trading partners. If I'm Buffalo I'm looking at teams like the Rangers and Islanders who are kind of stagnating/regressing and may be looking for that massive shakeup. Thompson/Barzal, Thompson/Laf++ types of deals.

 

[Beerz]

I didn't say it was.

I said I wouldn't do it from either side. I said I don't know why Buffalo would trade Thompson at all. I wouldn't.

If I'm Buffalo, I stay the course. I don't trade any of those guys away. They should stick with the rebuild. All they've done is hurt themselves by letting young talent go.

These are your exact words from beginning of conversation.

"Thompson for Suzuki or is a sideways move for both clubs. Thompson for Caufield would make sense for Buffalo as they produce similarly when healthy but Caufield is three years younger. I don't know why Montreal would do this though because they aren't in a win it now position. If they were, then it might make sense as Thompson has the production and size."

 

[CowbellConray]

I guess it comes down to ownership. What is it they're trying to do? I don't know.

I will say that the worst thing Buffalo can do is be impatient and go for a quick fix. Doing this will only exacerbate things. They've got a bunch of young talent and I'd just ride it out. Yeah it's been 13 years but they have undermined their rebuild by losing players like Eichel and Reinhart along the way. That's not rebuilding. And trading somebody like Power or Dahlin or whatever would be foolish as well.

Thompson's a little older but he's a key cog and you need some stabiliity. He'll still be good in a few years and if they really want to trade him they can do it later. I wouldn't trade him now.

As for Montreal, I wouldn't trade Suzuki or Caufield. Suzuki's a solid two way guy who I think is going to be around 80-90 points. Caufield is just coming into his prime and will likely be a 40-50 goal guy with regularity if he can stay healthy. You don't trade that away, you add to it.

Agree on all counts - Buffalo needs to be patient with their current true core (Thompson/Dahlin/Power). Those three need to be off the table. Go get some veterans who are 28-31 and insulate this young talent.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I guess it comes down to ownership. What is it they're trying to do? I don't know.

I will say that the worst thing Buffalo can do is be impatient and go for a quick fix. Doing this will only exacerbate things. They've got a bunch of young talent and I'd just ride it out. Yeah it's been 13 years but they have undermined their rebuild by losing players like Eichel and Reinhart along the way. That's not rebuilding. And trading somebody like Power or Dahlin or whatever would be foolish as well.

Thompson's a little older but he's a key cog and you need some stabiliity. He'll still be good in a few years and if they really want to trade him they can do it later. I wouldn't trade him now.

As for Montreal, I wouldn't trade Suzuki or Caufield. Suzuki's a solid two way guy who I think is going to be around 80-90 points. Caufield is just coming into his prime and will likely be a 40-50 goal guy with regularity if he can stay healthy. You don't trade that away, you add to it.

The Sabres are the youngest team in the NHL and we’re bursting at the seams with prospects. Any prospect not already in the NHL should be on the table for players who can help us now. (I’d be very hard-pressed to move Helenius or Ostlund because I think they’ll fill important roles sooner rather than later, but no prospect is untouchable if the right player is available.)

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He will hit 30 this year if he stays on the ice. That is a big if.

Caufield's had one injury in his career. He paced for 48 over 82, got hurt and needed surgery. Had a great year last season but the zip from his shot was gone. 28 goals on 314 shots. Respectable but not great. He's back to pacing for 45 goals this year. He'll likely hit 40 and has a shot at 50.

I have been one of Tage Thompsons biggest critics for years and you are making me defend him.

I'm not making you do anything. I wouldn't trade the guy, I think he's great.

Take away any situational rub that comes along with where a particular team is in a rebuild and 99% of rational fans are going to overwhelmingly take Tage over Cole. No questions asked.

Why would I not include a situational rub in a trade where I'm a club that's rebuilding? It makes no sense to do that. Of course I'm going to factor it in.

I have no interest in trading Caufield. Hobbit or not, he's going to be a really good scorer for the next ten years. My team is going nowhere over the next two to three. So why trade for a guy who will be thirty at that time?

This isn't a discussion over who I'd put on Team USA this year. It's a discussion about what Montreal would give for Thompson. Somebody said CC and a first and to that I'd say - go jump in the lake. I wouldn't make the trade straight up. And I wouldn't do it from Buffalo's side either.

But at least got you to reverse course on your this would be good from Buffalos perspective take.

?????

You have me confused with somebody else. I said I wouldn't do this from either perspective.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The Sabres are the youngest team in the NHL and we’re bursting at the seams with prospects. Any prospect not already in the NHL should be on the table for players who can help us now. (I’d be very hard-pressed to move Helenius or Ostlund because I think they’ll fill important roles sooner rather than later, but no prospect is untouchable if the right player is available.)

That's fine. You can bundle assets for better ones. What you don't do is trade away prime assets as they have previously.

 

[Beerz]

Caufield's had one injury in his career. He paced for 48 over 82, got hurt and needed surgery. Had a great year last season but the zip from his shot was gone. 28 goals on 314 shots. Respectable but not great. He's back to pacing for 45 goals this year. He'll likely hit 40 and has a shot at 50.

I'm not making you do anything. I wouldn't trade the guy, I think he's great.

Why would I not include a situational rub in a trade where I'm a club that's rebuilding? It makes no sense to do that. Of course I'm going to factor it in.

I have no interest in trading Caufield. Hobbit or not, he's going to be a really good scorer for the next ten years. My team is going nowhere over the next two to three. So why trade for a guy who will be thirty at that time?

This isn't a discussion over who I'd put on Team USA this year. It's a discussion about what Montreal would give for Thompson. Somebody said CC and a first and to that I'd say - go jump in the lake. I wouldn't make the trade straight up. And I wouldn't do it from Buffalo's side either.

?????

You have me confused with somebody else. I said I wouldn't do this from either perspective.

Not confused.

Post in thread 'Tage Thompson' Value of: - Tage Thompson

 

[TageGod]

Caufield is just not in the same level as a Thompson talent. PP driven winger who is a 60-65 point player on an average year. This year is his closest year to PPG, but he is shooting 20%, which is almost double his normal %.

Thompson is simply at another tier of talent. He may be older, but his production and contract are simply too strong to value these guys similarly.

If we are talking about a package with Caufield + Guhle I'd listen and consider, but Montreal isn't going to part with that to bring Thompson in.

Regardless, Thompson should and would only be dealt in a 1 for 1 prime years player swap, not a futures deal. Unless we are talking unprotected top 5 pick this year.

Thompson for 2025 Montreal 1st + Demidov is something I'd consider if we are talking purely futures, but it's quite an overpay.

Montreal and Buffalo dont line up well for trading partners. If I'm Buffalo I'm looking at teams like the Rangers and Islanders who are kind of stagnating/regressing and may be looking for that massive shakeup. Thompson/Barzal, Thompson/Laf++ types of deals.

Two Magic beans for a 1C, such an overpay.

 

[CowbellConray]

Two Magic beans for a 1C, such an overpay.

From Montreal's perspective, as a rebuilding team, it's an overpay for them. If the Sabres traded 19 year old Reinhart and their 2015 first for Mark Scheifele back in 2015, it would be an overpay in hindsight.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not confused.

Post in thread 'Tage Thompson' Value of: - Tage Thompson

I rephrased this in a later post. I said it's the only reason why Buffalo would do it. Age.

And I said throughout the thread in multiple posts that I wouldn't move Thompson at all.

 

[TageGod]

From Montreal's perspective, as a rebuilding team, it's an overpay for them. If the Sabres traded 19 year old Reinhart and their 2015 first for Mark Scheifele back in 2015, it would be an overpay in hindsight.

Where a team is in their standings or rebuild does not change the price. 10/10 times you would trade a 1st and top prospect for a 1C unless its Bedard and Celebrini right now.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Caufield is just not in the same level as a Thompson talent. PP driven winger who is a 60-65 point player on an average year. This year is his closest year to PPG, but he is shooting 20%, which is almost double his normal %.

Thompson is simply at another tier of talent. He may be older, but his production and contract are simply too strong to value these guys similarly.

Thompson began producing at 24. Caufield is about to turn that age now and will likely outproduce what Thompson did at that age. He's far ahead of where Thompson was at that time. Thompson isn't a different class of player. If you look at what they've actually produced in the NHL already Caufield has better per game numbers already. 50 fewer goals in 120 less games. Caufield averages 34/28/62 per 82 for his career. Thompson averages 30/27/57 per 82. Caufield's numbers are similar but better. And he's just hitting his prime now.

Thompson's a center and he's huge. That's a big advantage. But production wise, Caufield will likely be a 40+ goal, 70-80 point guy.

Again, if this is a 'who do you take for this year's Team USA' question then it's Thompson. But as a rebuilding club, I'll take the guy who's three years younger and just entering his prime. Makes more sense from my team's perspective to simply hang onto that guy.

If we are talking about a package with Caufield + Guhle I'd listen and consider, but Montreal isn't going to part with that to bring Thompson in.

Correct. It would be insane of Montreal to do that. Just like it would be insane of them to do CC + a first. Absolutely no way.

Regardless, Thompson should and would only be dealt in a 1 for 1 prime years player swap, not a futures deal. Unless we are talking unprotected top 5 pick this year.

Thompson for 2025 Montreal 1st + Demidov is something I'd consider if we are talking purely futures, but it's quite an overpay.

Montreal and Buffalo dont line up well for trading partners. If I'm Buffalo I'm looking at teams like the Rangers and Islanders who are kind of stagnating/regressing and may be looking for that massive shakeup. Thompson/Barzal, Thompson/Laf++ types of deals.

Again, if I'm Buffalo I don't trade Thompson at all. I wouldn't trade him for Suzuki or Caufield. Demidov? Sure. In that case you're getting a top ranked prospect and a guy who's a full eight years younger. That would make sense. But Montreal isn't going to do that, nor should they.

 

[CowbellConray]

Where a team is in their standings or rebuild does not change the price. 10/10 times you would trade a 1st and top prospect for a 1C unless its Bedard and Celebrini right now.

It doesn't change the price from Buffalo's side, but it absolutely does for the buyer. There are a lot of different variables that need to be considered from both parties when it comes to price and "overpay". Montreal may feel that Misa/Demidov is a really solid core that they believe will be better than Thompson then it's an overpay.