Proposal: T.J. Brodie to your team

[Maukkis]

I'll assume this is representative unless other Flames fans wanna chime in.
Quite frankly I thought you would do either Stepan or Zuc + but good luck if you think Brodie nets something mind boggling.
This is a legit jewel, but he is not ekblad.




I am busy and I wanted some feedback. If I had an idea of what it would take -- assuming we could agree on the currency -- then I could attempt a fit

You wouldn't accept any legit fit if someone gave you one. It wouldn't gut the other team, nor would it reduce every NMC and bad contract from the Rangers.

Staal makes no sense with that contract, period. Stepan is nowhere near enough, and he is nowhere near Brodie's level.

An example would likely be Skjei + Kreider/Zibanejad + Buchnevich. This is Brodie we're talking about - if you don't hate every second of reading the names of the players going out of your team, your offer is not enough. Two good offers from this thread would be Schenn+Ghost and Palat+Stralman (I think this is a little too high though). Basically, a top 4 defenseman to replace Brodie, as Calgary doesn't have extras, and then a good incentive along the lines of a top 6 forward.

You don't get quality for the players you always want to get rid of. Keep that in mind.

 

[DJJones]

I don't understand why we would accept a top 4 defense and a top 6 player for Brodie

That makes zero sense. So we downgrade hugely on defense so we can get a forward we could get on the market anyway?

 

[ManofSteel55]

You wouldn't accept any legit fit if someone gave you one. It wouldn't gut the other team, nor would it reduce every NMC and bad contract from the Rangers.

Staal makes no sense with that contract, period. Stepan is nowhere near enough, and he is nowhere near Brodie's level.

An example would likely be Skjei + Kreider/Zibanejad + Buchnevich. This is Brodie we're talking about - if you don't hate every second of reading the names of the players going out of your team, your offer is not enough. Two good offers from this thread would be Schenn+Ghost and Palat+Stralman (I think this is a little too high though). Basically, a top 4 defenseman to replace Brodie, as Calgary doesn't have extras, and then a good incentive along the lines of a top 6 forward.

You don't get quality for the players you always want to get rid of. Keep that in mind.

Palat and Stralman are both nearly as good as Brodie. You may as well have shortened it up and said "nothing realistic will get you Brodie".

 

[DJJones]

Palat and Stralman are both nearly as good as Brodie. You may as well have shortened it up and said "nothing realistic will get you Brodie".

That's been said about 50 times in this thread already

 

[Juxtaposer]

He is out to lunch more often than not.

I would pass on that offer personally. I think you are overselling both Braun and Donskoi.

You're hella overvaluing Donskoi, his value to the Sharks is a lot more than to other teams. IMO, you're missing a decent-sized +.

Need a better forward than Donskoi going back.

He asked for a top-6 wing. Donskoi is a top-6 wing. Not really sure the issue? If you're just stat-watching, then you obviously don't appreciate what a good player he is. His counting stats are meh because 1) his shooting percentage is stupid low, 2) Couture's EV shooting percentage is stupid low, and 3) they have a revolving door of Ward/Boedker/Labanc on their LW, none of whom have been effective.

I thought people had their eyes opened to Donskoi after watching the playoffs last year, but I guess not.

 

[Maukkis]

Palat and Stralman are both nearly as good as Brodie. You may as well have shortened it up and said "nothing realistic will get you Brodie".

Which is why I said "it's a little much". But that's the whole point - why should a top 15-20 defenseman be reasonably priced?

25+ teams would be calling, if Brodie was available. The price will obviously be very high.

 

[trick9]

If you want Brodie, a top 6 RW and top 2 defensive D has to come back. So Oshie and Alzner with agreed extensions at a good rate, or no deal. Also you need to take a cap dump back, so Brodie and Stajan for Oshie and Alzner with agreed extensions and deal.

That's brutal for the Capitals.

No.

 

[StephenPeat]

That's brutal for the Capitals.

No.

It's arguable that with an extension in place for those Caps players, the Caps are giving up the two best pieces in that deal. This thread demonstrates that Brodie is currently monstrously overrated.

 

[Leafs87]

If Calgary D sucks and Brodie is a first pairing guy, why are they trading him again?

Maybe if you re read your own sentence it will make more sense

The standards have gone down though for #1 D men if Brodie is considered a #1 guy.

 

[YourAverageFan*]

It's arguable that with an extension in place for those Caps players, the Caps are giving up the two best pieces in that deal. This thread demonstrates that Brodie is currently monstrously overrated.

that actually made me chuckle. Not arguable at all

 

[StephenPeat]

that actually made me chuckle. Not arguable at all

Let's just put it this way. T.J. Oshie would have been the Flames third leading F in scoring last season and Alzner has as many points as Brodie this season and makes 1/3 Brodie's salary, technically both players make less than Brodie this season. Sure feel free to value Brodie more than Alzner because he scores more points, the Caps have two D practically as good or better than Brodie in every aspect in Carlson and Niskanen, simply no need to pay a Top 3F and a Top 4D for Brodie so move along. Alzner and Oshie for Brodie is an embarrassing suggestion and whoever posted it should feel bad.

 

[Ashasx]

just rofl at Alzner and Oshie being more valuable than Brodie

Let's ignore Brodie's 3 previous excellent seasons, and instead say that he is what he is now, after 20 some games under a new coach, where everyone on his team looks out of sync.

totally fair.

 

[StephenPeat]

just rofl at Alzner and Oshie being more valuable than Brodie

Let's ignore Brodie's 3 previous excellent seasons, and instead say that he is what he is now, after 20 some games under a new coach, where everyone on his team looks out of sync.

totally fair.

Again, Brodie isn't worth a Top 3F AND a Top 4D (either piece individually? okay Ill buy it, both, absolutely not), regardless of whether he returns to his pre-2016-17 form or not. If he keeps up his pace from the early part of this season, he's not worth either at his current salary.

Edit: Oh yeah, for the record, for the pleasure of trading a Top 3F and Top 4D for a Top 4D they don't need the Caps are also taking a Cap Dump in the proposed deal. Yeah, it's a brutal, brutal proposal for the Caps and there's really no arguing that.

 

[YourAverageFan*]

Let's just put it this way. T.J. Oshie would have been the Flames third leading F in scoring last season and Alzner has as many points as Brodie this season and makes 1/3 Brodie's salary, technically both players make less than Brodie this season. Sure feel free to value Brodie more than Alzner because he scores more points, the Caps have two D practically as good or better than Brodie in every aspect in Carlson and Niskanen, simply no need to pay a Top 3F and a Top 4D for Brodie so move along. Alzner and Oshie for Brodie is an embarrassing suggestion and whoever posted it should feel bad.

you are too funny. I'm not sure whether or not to take your posts seriously. You need to slow down on whatever it is you're taking

 

[StephenPeat]

you are too funny. I'm not sure whether or not to take your posts seriously. You need to slow down on whatever it is you're taking

I'm interested to know what exactly in that post was incorrect or funny. Perhaps those humor emoji should be sadness.....if Brodie's statlines after 80 games project from those at 20 games I'm sure you'll be singing the same tune.

 

[YourAverageFan*]

I'm interested to know what exactly in that post was incorrect or funny. Perhaps those humor emoji should be sadness.....if Brodie's statlines after 80 games project from those at 20 games I'm sure you'll be singing the same tune.

Honestly, there's just way too many idiotic things you've said for me to prove you wrong on. It'd take way too much time. All I'll say is this.

Saying TJ Oshie is arguably more valuable than Brodie =

Saying Alzner is arguably more valuable than Brodie = that's just an insult

Saying their value put together > Brodie's value =

Saying Carlson and Niskanen are BOTH better than Brodie =

All you have to do is look up each players' possession stats, all of their analytical stats, real stats, etc... to know that Brodie is statistically the BEST player out of everyone you've mentioned. Not to mention Brodie is also the youngest player out of everyone you've mentioned and easily on the best contract out of anyone you've mentioned considering Carlson's contract expires after next season and the fact he's gonna get paid WAY more than he's worth.

The funniest part to me is how good you think Alzner is.

 

[Mitchy]

Come on.

In what world are Niskanen, Carlson and Alzner better than Brodie?

Those guys are all good players, but Brodie is easily the better player than them and a better asset.

 

[StephenPeat]

Honestly, there's just way too many idiotic things you've said for me to prove you wrong on. It'd take way too much time. All I'll say is this.

All you have to do is look up each players' possession stats, all of their analytical stats, real stats, etc... to know that Brodie is statistically the BEST player out of everyone you've mentioned. Not to mention Brodie is also the youngest player out of everyone you've mentioned and easily on the best contract out of anyone you've mentioned considering Carlson's contract expires after next season and the fact he's gonna get paid WAY more than he's worth.

Funny you mention real stats. Last season T.J. Oshie was a 25/25 guy outscoring everyone on the Flames except for Gaudreau, Monahan, and Giordano (exactly like I said). Carlson has outscored Brodie every season they've been in the league except for last season where Carlson missed 1/4 of the season due to injury. How do the fancy stats explain Brodie's -12 and 4pts this season? Listen, Brodie had a better-than-good year last year, that's the past. Carlson is and always has been a better player and is currently better value. The combination of Alzner (Top 4D) + Oshie (Top 3F) are more valuable to a winning team than is Brodie (Top 4D) currently, no more complicated than that.

 

[YourAverageFan*]

Funny you mention real stats. Last season T.J. Oshie was a 25/25 guy outscoring everyone on the Flames except for Gaudreau, Monahan, and Giordano (exactly like I said). Carlson has outscored Brodie every season they've been in the league except for last season where Carlson missed 1/4 of the season due to injury. How do the fancy stats explain Brodie's -12 and 4pts this season? Listen, Brodie had a better-than-good year last year, that's the past. Carlson is and always has been a better player and is currently better value. The combination of Alzner (Top 4D) + Oshie (Top 3F) are more valuable to a winning team than is Brodie (Top 4D) currently, no more complicated than that.

if you think Brodie is at best a top 4 D-man and Alzner is top 4 D-man as well, we have nothing left to discuss

You really need to pay more attention to hockey if you're going to pretend like you know what you're talking about

 

[Lunatik]

It's arguable that with an extension in place for those Caps players, the Caps are giving up the two best pieces in that deal. This thread demonstrates that Brodie is currently monstrously overrated.

I'm sorry but in no world is TJ Oshie better than TJ Brodie

 

[YourAverageFan*]

I'm sorry but in no world is TJ Oshie better than TJ Brodie

While neither player are even remotely close to being better than Brodie, you can make a MUCH better case for Oshie then you can for Alzner. As good a reputation as Alzner gets, he's not nearly as good as people like to think

 

[bernmeister]

You wouldn't accept any legit fit if someone gave you one. It wouldn't gut the other team, nor would it reduce every NMC and bad contract from the Rangers.

Staal makes no sense with that contract, period. Stepan is nowhere near enough, and he is nowhere near Brodie's level.

An example would likely be Skjei + Kreider/Zibanejad + Buchnevich. This is Brodie we're talking about - if you don't hate every second of reading the names of the players going out of your team, your offer is not enough. Two good offers from this thread would be Schenn+Ghost and Palat+Stralman (I think this is a little too high though). Basically, a top 4 defenseman to replace Brodie, as Calgary doesn't have extras, and then a good incentive along the lines of a top 6 forward.

You don't get quality for the players you always want to get rid of. Keep that in mind.

thanks for the honest feedback
on this occasion we agree to disagree
again, brodie is substantial but, IMO, not ekblad - esque
absolutely no to "Skjei + Kreider/Zibanejad + Buchnevich"

even if I thought he commanded this kind of value, do not agree that package improves Rangers

as to Y"ou don't get quality for the players you always want to get rid of."
I think you do get quality, but I agree it will depend upon variables as to how much.
As for guys like Stepan they command legit value, but on par with what they are.
In his case, he is like 20th best C no more/less.

It is not me, but some of my Ranger colleagues that want the sun and moon and stars for him

 

[Maukkis]

thanks for the honest feedback
on this occasion we agree to disagree
again, brodie is substantial but, IMO, not ekblad - esque
absolutely no to "Skjei + Kreider/Zibanejad + Buchnevich"

even if I thought he commanded this kind of value, do not agree that package improves Rangers

as to Y"ou don't get quality for the players you always want to get rid of."
I think you do get quality, but I agree it will depend upon variables as to how much.
As for guys like Stepan they command legit value, but on par with what they are.
In his case, he is like 20th best C no more/less.

It is not me, but some of my Ranger colleagues that want the sun and moon and stars for him

Do you even think of what you always offer?

You offer massive contracts. NMCs. Backup goalies. Mediocre prospects. Bottom 6 talent. What do you ask for? Top end talent. Good prospects. Sweet contracts. Draft picks.

You don't understand how little room there is for moving NMCs. You don't understand how little cap space there is around the league. You don't understand how worthless backup goalies are in trades. Every team has those futures you are willing to give up.

You just simply don't understand NHL trades.

 

[StephenPeat]

if you think Brodie is at best a top 4 D-man and Alzner is top 4 D-man as well, we have nothing left to discuss

You really need to pay more attention to hockey if you're going to pretend like you know what you're talking about

You like that laugh emoji, probably because your argument is no more substantive than that. Honestly I see Brodie as a 2/3 (this season) closer to a 2 (thus far over his career). Alzner is a 2/3 closer to a 3 (also over his career). The attention I've been paying to hockey tells me, as a Flames fan, you better hope Brodie decides to come out of the funk he's in currently or you guys might actually end the season lower than your in-province rivals and in the lottery (currently tied for 4th worst record in the league). I understand the team is young and there will be growing pains but at the same time players like Brodie (not currently earning his salary) are as much of the problem as they are the solution. It's only a matter of time until people start to wonder when your rebuild is going to be over.

 

[Gains]

Would Pacioretty + Sergachev for Brodie as a base work for the Flames ?